THX glasses

[bayc oldboy]

Supprised no one has commented on the forums about using glasses to set their tv's

I haven't got said glasses and was just wandering the results (better picture or not noticible)

Thanks

Sorry this was originally posted on wrong subject matter

 

[Anonymous]

I have been unable to use them effectively as yet... My Panny PZ82 needs an NTSC signal in order to use the tint function, I have instead tried to set colour using the BBC HD test card through my V+, however, found out that the test card has been reduced in function... WTW, BTB have been reduced.

I can still comfortably set brightness and contrast, but setting colour until the white areas at the top of the card are of the same brightness (wearing the glasses) seems to have an oversaturation effect, so I am convinced that I can't use the test card to set colour/tint.

I'm just going to have to wait and buy a Blu-ray at some point with a set-up disc.

Also, I cannot use my HTPC to set tint as the colour space/graphics card are not reliable enough, setting it on one input may throw off the V+ input.

Wonder why Panasonic didn't have tint in the menu as standard on Pal?

 

[Anonymous]

This post isn't so much about the glasses but about my concern over using the thx calibration utility found on dvd's.

My parents bought a new sony kdl-v5500 (& humax 9300T freeview box) & yesterday i went over to set it up for them.

My TV has been isf calibrated so I thought it would be a great opportunity to use the utility and the glasses to set up a nice picture for them.

First hurdle was step 1. The white box made up of 8 different boxes. No matter how much i turned the contrast up or down (from min to max) I could still see 8 different boxes. There was never a point when two boxes bled into one. I left it as close to "bleeding" as i could. The setting was around 80 (on a scale of 0-100), which to me seemed very high and just wrong.

The second step the thx shadowing seemed ok, but not that obvious when the shadow disappeared. I think it was around a setting of 70 (again quite high I thought).

The 3rd step - colour, resulted in a setting of around 80!

Sharpness was low. I think about 3, which fitted in with my pre-conceptions that it should be low.

The aspect ratio was fine.

The picture looked as you would expect. Too bright and too much colour.

So i turned them all down manually and it looked much better.

Now I had ordered the £5 hdmi cable from thatcable for them (which due to popular demand hasn't arrived yet) & so the hdmi cable I was using was the one that came with the set (so rubbish basically). Maybe this was something to do with it?

When i got home i decided to re-run the tests on my pioneer kuro. The first step was very obvious. there was a definate point when the dividing line was easy to see (about 42 from memory). Brightness worked well too (+1 I think). Then on to colour. And this worked. I could see 6 straight blue lines but the setting was on +15 (much higher than I would normally set it). Sharpness (-12) and aspect ratio - no problems. Then I watched the picture. There was some football on sky hd so I put that on. The picture was very bright and very colourful. Too much so i think. I thought maybe i had done it wrong and got my mrs who has very good eyes to do it for me. She got the same results as me.

I then did a google search for settings for the sony lcd tv and the few people that have posted them all seem to have settings much higher than i wold normally select. So maybe lcd's do need higher settings?

What are my conclusions?

Well as for my mum n dads sony telly I'll wait for the hdmi cable to arrive and try again when i get that. Hopefully that will make a difference. So I'll run the tests again. If it doesn't make a difference i'll use some settings i found on the net as a base and adopt them to suit.

Don't know why I had to turn the colour up so much on my kuro (which is the bit I used the glasses for) but in the end i just put that back to the calibrated setting. I don't want to say the glasses don't work, but they didn't seem to for me?

At the end of it all I think my biggest concern was that on the sony I was unable to see the 8 different boxes when turning contrast up or down (it defaults to 90 out of the box).

Anyone else have any unexpected results?

 

[professorhat]

I think the thing to keep in perspective here is that using the free THX glasses and software is not going to get you the level of calibration that paying a certified ISF engineer a few hundred pounds can do for you. What it should do is improve the picture over and above the settings provided on your TV out of the box. If you don't agree with the settings, feel free to manually tweak them afterwards so that the picture is how you like it.

The main thing it does do is actually get people to manually tweak the settings to their own preference rather than just go with the ones the manufacturer provides out of the box.

 

[Anonymous]

I used the glasses with the THX Optimizer in The Incredibles. It wasn't on my Titanic DVD despite having the logo on the box.

Results were mixed/disappointing.

My TV is a Toshiba 42WLT66. I found the white boxes a bit of a nightmare. There were always 8 boxes, no bleeding, etc all the way from 1 to 100. The brightness was fine (set to 50) It was clear where the cross over was, go up 1 and I could see the logo, go back down and I couldn't. Colour was my biggest problem...with the glasses on I didn't have the solid lines until 90...and yes, when I put the TV on it looked as though everyone had been Tango'd. Sharpness was completely wasted on me. From 1-100 I saw zero difference in the test page. I can only assume that my eyes do not have a sharpness sensor in them! Aspect was fine the way I had it.

 

[Anonymous]

I haven't tried the glasses yet. So can someone explain why the optimizer on the Wall-E Blu-ray can't be used, it's a UK release so I would have thought it was OK?

 

[Andy Madden]

Hi Dave,

sorry to hear about your mixed results. What was the level of the Sony's backlight if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Anonymous]

Backlight was at the default setting of 5. I didn't change that (whatever it is).

 

[Oldboy]

Hi Dave and everyone else!

If you are having problems getting an acceptable picture with the THX disc (as i was) try googling your tv model number with the heading 'tv settings' as many people have posted certified engineer settings saving you the expense and hassle of getting one in yourself! I done exactly that for my new Samsung LE40B650 tv and have had brilliant results, all aspects of my picture have been improved compared to the THX set up disc and the colours really accurate.

Just a thought and hope it helps (and dosen't break any forum rules).

 

[Andy Madden]

Perhaps try dropping that to around 3 (or two at the lowest) on the Sony. we often find that out-of-the-box, the back-light settings are too high... Also, don't forget to go back and keep rechecking the contrast after you've adjusted the brightness and vice versa to make sure the picture is balanced.

Hope this helps...

 

[professorhat]

Lambechop:I haven't tried the glasses yet. So can someone explain why the optimizer on the Wall-E Blu-ray can't be used, it's a UK release so I would have thought it was OK?

Because the optimiser on the Wall-E disc is not the THX Optimiser, looks like something Disney have produced.

The THX glasses are designed for use with the THX Optimiser, not the Disney one - from the look of the Disney one, it doesn't provide any tests which will work with glasses, it's all done purely by your naked eye.

 

[Anonymous]

Andy Madden:
Perhaps try dropping that to around 3 (or two at the lowest) on the Sony. we often find that out-of-the-box, the back-light settings are too high... Also, don't forget to go back and keep rechecking the contrast after you've adjusted the brightness and vice versa to make sure the picture is balanced.

Hope this helps...

Thanks Andy. I'll do that. As a general rule does the contrast on an lcd tv get set higher than on a plasma?

 

[Andy Madden]

I couldn't really say - it can vary between TVs. On some sets, altering the contrast just a couple of notches can result in quite drastic changes whereas on others, you can push settings to the max and hardly see any changes to the THX pattern...

 

[Anonymous]

The THX optomizer is not a very accurate or complete method to optomize a display.

Setting brightness it gives a result in the ballpark of the minmum level you want brightness. Not the ideal brightness. You may want it slightly lower for maximum contrast, video black digital 16 = the blackest the display will go, or slightly higher shadow detail 2% and 4% above black are distinguishable from black in brighter scenes. Where you set brightness should be partially determined by gamma tracking and greyscale colour accuracy both of which the optomizer ignores.

Setting contrast it gives a result in the ballpark of the maximum level you can have contrast. Not the ideal contrast which is usually lower to give a better gamma and greyscale colour accuracy and will display some spectacular highlights/overshoots, rather than just upto reference white. Getting correct gamma should be the main determining factor when setting contrast, then checking you are not clipping white or suffering colour tinting of the greyscale.

The more modern THX optomizer test patterns on some blu-rays have above reference white boxes as well but gives incorrect instructions, stating a correctly setup display should not display above reference white information. These more modern THX optomizers also have a gamma test pattern to get in the ballpark of 2.2 gamma. But fail to point out that desired display gamma varies between 2.2 and 2.5, depending on the viewing environment and the brightness of the displays white point. A projector in a light controlled room will want a higher gamma than a lcd flat pannel in a living room with the lights on. A smooth gamma curve is also wanted, but this test pattern does not enable you to check that.

Setting colour, you are not checking the colour filter is only passing blue light, so do not know if the filter works with your display (the filter should display black with red and green colour bars). Since skin tones are most important to the perception of accurate colours, red and green should ideally be checked in case the decoder does not work how it should, but with no red or green filter this is not possible with THX optomizer.

Since greyscale colour accuracy has not been checked you may end up with the correct colour level added to a non-neutral greyscale. Gamma also effects colour saturation and hue.

Setting sharpness is very approximate. It does not use a horizontal frequency sweep pattern to see the effect across the board, or check for visible ringing at normal viewing distance on a worst case sharpness test pattern. It also does not have a maximum resolution test pattern to check pixel phase is correct which some displays at least some projectors, enable you to alter.

Gamma tracking and greyscale colour accuracy are crucial to the display giving its best performance but both are ignored by the standard THX optomizer. Brightness (black level) and Contrast (white level) are the start and end points, gamma tracking is what determines the greyscale step sizes inbetween, the in picture perception of contrast, image depth. Colour (luminance/saturation) determines how much color signal is added to the greyscale image, but greyscale colour accuracy determines how neutral that greyscale image is to start with, since colour hue descrimination is determined by the ratio between colours if greyscale is wrong you will have to lower colour (luminance/saturation) to make the colours not look so odd, the image will then be more washed out and subtle hues less noticeable, both greyscale colour accuracy and colour(luminance/saturation) need to be correct to get a vibrant lifelike image.

Since there are reference test patterns designed and used by the industry to calibrate displays. I do not see why THX see the need to invent their own and give dumbed down and misleading instructions on how a display should be setup to consumers, other than for self promotion of THX. THX has started to give certified training to calibrators so they can use the THX accreditation to advertise their services, it does not train calibrators to use the THX optomizer but to use the industry standard test patterns.

 

[Andrew Everard]

Feel better now?

Point is, the THX Optimizer allows consumers to get greatly improved picture quality for themselves without the need for any specialist equipment - even the glasses aren't a prerequisite for adjustments to be made.

Of course getting your set properly calibrated will give even better results, but as a 'dumbed down' way for the majority of us dumb users to get improved performance, the THX Optimizer has its place.

 

[Anonymous]

"Greatly improved picture quality" Better than out of the box settings? Maybe. Better than just doing it by eye viewing a film? Maybe. Better than just doing it by eye using the standard test screens? No.

Thats the problem they could have easily used the standard test screens, they do not require dumbing down they are simple to use and could be easily explained in text or with verbal explation on the disc. But instead THX choose to create their own test patterns and give poor guidence as to what the best setting are. It gives a false belief that you have setup the display with the correct brightness and contrast and colour and sharpness settings. When if you used the industry standard test screens you would get different values. My annoyance is that if they are going to bother putting calibration instructions on the disc they might as well get it right. The biggest fault with it is setting up the contrast too high this does not "greatly improve" the image. The THX optomizers primarily purpose is in promoting THX not in providing the consumer with the best tools to do the job. Those are the standard test screens thats why the industry use them not THXs, even calibrators trained by THX and doing calibrations that are THX certified do not use THXs test screens, they use the industry standard test screens.

Taking the latest version of THX optomizer which includes whiter than white boxes and gamma test patterns a customer who looks at the THX optomizer on his newly professional THX calibrated THX certified display will find according to the optomizer that the display is not calibrated properly, when it is. I am specifically thinking of the disc stating that the display should not display whiter than white material, instructing the user to clip white at reference white which is categorically wrong. The gamma test pattern is also for gamma 2.2 which is ok for living room flat pannels but too low for dark room projectors.

If you are going to promote setting up the display for best performance you might as well promote using the right tools rather then promote THX. You could easily provide a downloadable calibration disc for people to burn or as other magazines have in the past given away a free calibration disc, and promoted the benefits of calibration and how to guidelines for by eye calibration in the magazine. Instead the magazine features what is in effect an editorial advert for THX, containing little more than a parotting of the instructions on the standard THX optimizer disc.

 

[The_Lhc]

knightout: If you are going to promote setting up the display for best performance you might as well promote using the right tools rather then promote THX. You could easily provide a downloadable calibration disc for people to burn or as other magazines have in the past given away a free calibration disc, and promoted the benefits of calibration and how to guidelines for by eye calibration in the magazine. Instead you feature what is in effect an editorial advert for THX, containing little more than a parotting of the instructions on the standard THX optimizer disc.

The magazine only put the glasses in as the result of months of requests from the readers, ie us.

 

[Andrew Everard]

I think knightout has an axe, and he's going to grind it.

Yes, we could have done all the things he suggests; we could even have inserted a little sachet containing a 'just add water' THX calibration professional, but as the_lhc says we merely responded to demand from readers.

That, not overt promotion of THX, is why we did it; that THX supplied the glasses for the offer of course does mean the company gets some promotion.

The problem with other magazines giving away free calibration discs is
that it's relatively easy to persuade a sponsor to support the cost of
producing a few thousand discs, but when you look at the kind of print
runs we do, covermounts get a bit expensive.

And by the way, why would anyone with 'a newly professional THX calibrated certified display' bother checking it with the giveaway glasses? That's a bit like taking your car in to have the engine tuned for optimum performance, getting it home, whipping out the spanners and stripping it down to see what the mechanics have done...