Thinking of taking the plunge - advice please.

psurquhart

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I have a Sony DA5400es av amp.

I also have a Sony 370 Blu Ray and an Arcam DV79 DVD/CD player.

Presently, I stream via Apple Airport Express from a Sony Vaio using iTunes mostly but sometimes for pure convieniance just my I iphone 3gs (quality not as good as Vaio though).

I miss the true hi fi sound. Have a big cd collection but not enough room to keep them out all of the time - they are mostly ripped via Apple Lossless and the cds are banished to a cupboard in the kids bedroom.

Front speakers are PMC GB1's and DB1 centre.

I have £500 spare to upgrade - was thinking Rega DAC or could save a little more and go for the Audiolab M-DAC.

I am a little clueless on DAC's and need advise.

I am purely interested in getting the best analogue stereo sound.

Firstly, does the transport matter ? Was thinking of selling the Arcam and if need be feed cds through the Sony Blu Ray, but as mentioned I think I will be going down the streaming route so this might not matter anyway.

Secondly, can I continue to stream through the Airport or would this be a waste of time with me being better off using the Sony Vaio direct ? I am not too savy on connections either or sample rates. I think I read somewhere that the Airport would be limited to a lower bitrate ? Also, if using the laptop direct what connection to feed it all through ? Again, read somewhere that a spdif via usb (what is that?) would benefit the Rega more (have got that terminology wrong but you experts will know what I mean). I do not like the idea of having to put my laptop near my rack/av amp - are their different solutions ?

I also have Sky HD - would this benefit going through a DAC ? Presumably not as I would lose the surround sound ?

Finally, just to throw a curve ball - would I be better off saving even more dosh and forgetting a dac to just buy a dedicated stereo amp - thinking Roksan Candy K2 and using the Sonys pre amp inputs and feeding the Airport through that ?

Quite confused as you can see ! Probably more questions to ask too but for fear of making you all nod off, i shall leave it at that for now.

Help most welcomed.

And thanks to the team for granting my request of a seperate DAC section.

Cheers.
 

quadpatch

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Oooo a proper DAC section :)

I am in a similar boat to you accept I just want laptop sound to headphones but the DAC curiosity is similar. I currently have a little Fiio E7 which does a good job but I want to see what else is possible. I tried to demo an Audiolab M-DAC recently at a couple places in London but nobody seems to be able to get stock of them at them moment becuase they are having supply problems apparently. If I was going to spend that kind of money there are a few other options like Burson (HA-160D or HA-160DS). Also interested in the Yulong D100 (£300), gets good reviews!

I did manage to try out a Chord Tucan (£900) at my local shop but I couldn't spend enough time with it to take home any meaningful conclusions other than the spacial filter was nice with my Denon AH-D7000 headphones. That was running off my laptop btw, I took both down to the shop. I think you really need to test these things pretty thoroughly and in your own space while being relaxed to full appreciate them. I might try again soon but with a different shop and hopefully a different DAC.
 

psurquhart

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The guys at Home Media / Maidstone (excellent independant store btw) are willing to lend me the Rega DAC for home trial - so i guess thats the place to start.

I could still do with some serious advice to the questions above though, its so much easier asking on forums without the fear of looking silly in store. But hey I guess I should just swallow my pride and ask away.

I was also wondering if a streamer would be a better option than an outright DAC ?

Oh so many un-answered questions - please feel free to add to this thread.

Wheres Prof Hat when I need him - he seems to know his stuff (amongst others too of course Ric/Music Craft, FrankHarvey Hi fi etc... )

Perhaps this new DAC topic is not as hyped up as I thought it would be ? Still it is a boring thurs night so i guess you lot will eventually come up trumps.
 

psurquhart

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Oh btw - I put too many letters in my original topic post. perhaps thats putting people off replying - you just need to delete some of the text - apologies.

Can the team shorten it for me please because I cant seem to edit the original post.
 

quadpatch

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So many questions psurquhart :p. Let me try to address some a bit better...

Considering you are using your laptop to send music to the Airport Express perhaps a media streamer could be a good option. I'm not sure about the airport's bitrate / quality issues but you should be able to find lots of info about that in other places.

The Marantz NA7004 (which won the streamer test in the latest WHF) can plug directly in to your laptop via USB or you could stream files over your network, thus keeping the computer away from your hifi. Or you could get a NAS drive and stream your files from there, thus no need to keep the computer on to listen to music. The Marantz also outputs digital audio so if you would like to use a better DAC it would be a simple process / upgrade. WHF rated the NA7004 at 5 stars for £700 but it's officially reduced to £430 now I think. Online I have seen it for as low as £319 and that was with a free Airplay too! I would tell you where but I fear WHF mods will kick my comment :p.

Another option could be something like the Cambridge Audio DACMagic Plus (£350) with the optional Bluetooth adapter (£70) to stream music directly to it from a phone or laptop although it supports a higher quality (Apt-X) BlueTooth I don't know whether your laptop / phone will (shoudl do if it's new). WHF do say that this wireless sounds better than normal Bluetooth but not as good as wired, which in this case would have to be laptop plugged directly in to USB or more fiddly via SPDif or Coax.

Both of those options wouldn't require a CD/DVD/BR player at all and this would be my preference for convinence and in theory you shouldn't loose any quality if you stick to 16bit/44.1khz lossless as a minimum bitrate. Also both machines support higher bitrates should you want to go up to HD audio standards - 24bit/96khz (USB) or 24bit/192khz (SPDif / Coax).

I wouldn't drop the DAC just to concentrate on a stereo amp, a combination of both could be nice though. It's worth pointing out that the DACMagic Plus and the Audiolab M-DAC are both DACs and headphone amplifiers, if you are not going to use headphones much then this would be waisted expense. Perhaps you would be better off with a DAC only, something like the Arcam rDAC?

I hope that better answers your questions.
 

Overdose

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I would say that if you are staying with the computer as a source, then a dedicated streamer is uneccessay, as the Pc does all of those duties.

There are many options to choose, but with a DAC, to me, functionality is quite important. It seems that you can get much better value for money if you choose a multi function product, such as a DAC with headphone or preamp section.

Have a look at the iMatrix Quattro DAC, DAC/Preamp combo with headphone out and a good selection of sources. It also has a remote. If I decide to stay with my current type of speakers, then this DAC would be my first choice. Obviously, if you already have your amplification solution, a preamp might not be neccessary, but it does give extra options for system flexibility.

I am currently using a Mac mini as a hub/digital source, that is accessible and controlled by an iPad, the DAC is a small audio interface.
 

amcluesent

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Tricky one. The DAC in the Airport Express is poor, so it's likely best feeding S/PDIF to the AV Receiver. That said, it'll stream CD quality rips, so will do duty unless you feel like d/l hi-rez files.

However, good value though it is (I have a DA5400esMonitor Audio Siver RS1 for AV duty), I doubt it's analogue inputs and amps are good enough to show the benefit of an external mid-range DAC.

TBH, I'd be looking more at hanging a 2-chan amp off the front pre-outs of the DA5400es, which may not be doing justice to the PMC GB1's. You could even go for just a power-amp, just as for instance an 2nd hand Arcam P85 Diva should be less than £400.
 

Frank Harvey

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psurquhart said:
Firstly, does the transport matter ? Was thinking of selling the Arcam and if need be feed cds through the Sony Blu Ray, but as mentioned I think I will be going down the streaming route so this might not matter anyway.
Transports can make a difference, but at this stage, I wouldn't worry about it. Well, before the naysayers appear, I know they can make as a difference, as do others who have heard differences.

Secondly, can I continue to stream through the Airport or would this be a waste of time with me being better off using the Sony Vaio direct ? I am not too savy on connections either or sample rates. I think I read somewhere that the Airport would be limited to a lower bitrate ? Also, if using the laptop direct what connection to feed it all through ? Again, read somewhere that a spdif via usb (what is that?) would benefit the Rega more (have got that terminology wrong but you experts will know what I mean). I do not like the idea of having to put my laptop near my rack/av amp - are their different solutions ?
Unfortunately I'm not really familiar with Airport Express. Connection-wise, it'll depend on what you have, but I'm not familiar with Sony laptops.

I also have Sky HD - would this benefit going through a DAC ? Presumably not as I would lose the surround sound ?
Yes, the internal DACs of the Sky box won't be up to much.

Finally, just to throw a curve ball - would I be better off saving even more dosh and forgetting a dac to just buy a dedicated stereo amp - thinking Roksan Candy K2 and using the Sonys pre amp inputs and feeding the Airport through that ?
Your Sony should drive the GB1's fine, and even if it does, you may find the pre-amp section of your AV receiver holding things back. Again, I'm not familiar with the Sony receivers of that era, so I can't really say how well it will be performing in your system or if it's holding any part of it back, I can only give general advice.

Adding a power amp will usually get more from a good quality pair of speakers and drive them better, but the sound will still be held back to an extent by the pre-amp section, which is probably the biggest culprit. Adding an integrated amplifier will obviously imrpove both areas, but not quite have the same current and drive as the dedicated power amp.
 

SteveR750

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Have you thought about simply installing a decent media player (not windows, nor itunes) for the Viao, something designed to attempt bit perfect output? Even the pay to use progs (I use J River) are not that expensive, and can make a PC sound remarkable. The viao I have got (A VPCF12S1E) has a noisy psu, partly fixed by switching off the ground loop on the DAC, and eliminated by pulling the psu out and running on battery. Means you can spend some cash on a decent DAC.
 

baz

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Regarding your question at the end re possibly buying an amp instead, you could do what I've just done...I recently bought the 8200CDQ which is a CD player/DAC/pre-amp/headphone amp - I originally rocked up to see if I could audition the MDAC, but as there was no stock available for a while I decided to take home the CDQ as the DACs are the same (although I hear the MDAC is slightly better maybe).

Anyway, I ended selling up my old system of Rega Jupiter, Audilolab 8000S and P, and a Beresford 7510 DAC, and now have the 8200CDQ paired with a second-hand Tact SDA2175 semi-digital power amp, and to my ears it sounds bloomin' wonderful. Damage to the pocket was £830 for the CDQ and £500 for the Tact amp, minus what I got for the old syetem.

So basically, you could buy the MDAC at £600 and pair it with a good second-hand power amp and get really great sound, budget permitting. I also have it connected to my Sky HD box and a Sonos ZP90, plus stream a few HD tracks at 24/92 from my aptop via the USB input.

Would be interested to hear if you have taken the plunge yet !
 

psurquhart

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baz said:
Regarding your question at the end re possibly buying an amp instead, you could do what I've just done...I recently bought the 8200CDQ which is a CD player/DAC/pre-amp/headphone amp - I originally rocked up to see if I could audition the MDAC, but as there was no stock available for a while I decided to take home the CDQ as the DACs are the same (although I hear the MDAC is slightly better maybe).

Anyway, I ended selling up my old system of Rega Jupiter, Audilolab 8000S and P, and a Beresford 7510 DAC, and now have the 8200CDQ paired with a second-hand Tact SDA2175 semi-digital power amp, and to my ears it sounds bloomin' wonderful. Damage to the pocket was £830 for the CDQ and £500 for the Tact amp, minus what I got for the old syetem.

So basically, you could buy the MDAC at £600 and pair it with a good second-hand power amp and get really great sound, budget permitting. I also have it connected to my Sky HD box and a Sonos ZP90, plus stream a few HD tracks at 24/92 from my aptop via the USB input.

Would be interested to hear if you have taken the plunge yet !

Still havent taken the plunge yet (got a £467 car bill after doing cam belt, water pump and a few other bits sorted - hit my finances a little).

However, the brilliant team at Home Media, Maidstone , Kent (excellent customer service btw) are lending me a Rega Dac today - the best part is that I can keep it all week (its Wednesday today) and have it all weekend too. My first real test of a dac. Will let you know what I thought after a week (almost) of playing with it.
 

baz

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Great stuff, hope you enjoy the Rega DAC, from everything I hear about it, I'd be surprised if you didn't. Regarding the bill for your car, I feel your pain....nearly £1200 on vets bills this week, arrrgh. Still, you can't let the little blighters suffer can you ? I think I am going to enrol at the nearest Vetinary College first thing on Monday morning, £1200 for an op and some drugs is a pretty good earner in my view !
 

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