TheDark Side

[Overdose]

Depends what you mean by useful insight (a varying barometer at best on the internet). Soundbars restrict flexibility as I'd mentioned, for my needs anyway, they do offer centralised discreet functionality, but the subwoofer needs to go somewhere. Is it bringing anything new to the game? Yamaha introduced the soundbar concept a few years ago I think, but I'm not sure they'll take off domestically.

With 'insight' I meant some sort of experience with the latest technology regarding soundbars and how effective they are.

Their future would depend upon how good they are at creating a pseudo surround effect. If they can achieve this with any success, I would imagine them to be very popular, they are after all, just an AV system in a compact package, less wires, less racking/shelf real estate required and multi media capable.

I don't see how they restrict flexibility, pop them under the telly and you're good to go. No need to worry about positioning at all other than this, so I'd say they were more flexible than most kit available.

 

[the record spot]

You needn't go to the latest technology, the original one was excellent and did - apparently - an impressive job in throwing out a believeable soundstage, whether music or movies. This isn't new - Yamaha introduced the digital soundbar in the mid-2000s and it did well at the time, but look at how many budget speakers there are under £500. This is not a dying market.

People want simplicty in their hardware - centralised amps that deliver multiple functions or facilitate them - but I'd guess most people also prefer a traditional pair of speakers too. This sits with those who want pseudo-surround sound without going the full 6 or 8 speaker hog.

 

[Overdose]

You needn't go to the latest technology, the original one was excellent and did - apparently - an impressive job in throwing out a believeable soundstage, whether music or movies. This isn't new - Yamaha introduced the digital soundbar in the mid-2000s and it did well at the time, but look at how many budget speakers there are under £500. This is not a dying market.

People want simplicty in their hardware - centralised amps that deliver multiple functions or facilitate them - but I'd guess most people also prefer a traditional pair of speakers too. This sits with those who want pseudo-surround sound without going the full 6 or 8 speaker hog.

I don't have the sales figures, but hifi is quite a small market (and shrinking) when compared to AV (including multimedia tech) and if AV can do music, then most people are not going to spend extra on additional hifi. We can not consider ourselves to be part of the group of 'most people' in general and even some of the more modest systems would raise eyebrows for the costs.

"It costs how much and only plays music?"

You only have to flick through WHFS&V to see the evidence of this. Hifi is in the minority compared to other tech in the content and it wasn't always the case.

 

[The_Lhc]

I currently use the Receiver (non AV, its a Tuner/Amplifier) in the Bedroom and for my main/living room system a Sony STR DB930 in for 2 channel only.

The 930 has a bit of a cult status amongst Sony Receivers and in my humble opinion for good reason. It sounds effortlessly musical, bouncy, elastic, dynamic and whatever other weird names come to mind. Neutral too. The phono stage is good and the whole receiver is loaded with good quality parts. An equally built AV receiver would, I guess cost quite a bit today but as I am not into HC I can't really comment. - Even the phono stage is good. I've changed a few things but even in original condition it is a very good amplifier.

I would go as far and say the Sony is the closest I have come to a decent valve amplifier with regards to being 'musical' (micro dynamics as opposed to warm and soggy).

That's lucky, maybe I'll hang on to mine then, often wondered why I'd never noticed it performing as poorly in stereo as AV amps are supposed to.

Its no good though if you're into AV and need HDMI and the latest processing.

I just use the multi-channel outs from my BDP, does the job.

 

[the record spot]

You needn't go to the latest technology, the original one was excellent and did - apparently - an impressive job in throwing out a believeable soundstage, whether music or movies. This isn't new - Yamaha introduced the digital soundbar in the mid-2000s and it did well at the time, but look at how many budget speakers there are under £500. This is not a dying market.

People want simplicty in their hardware - centralised amps that deliver multiple functions or facilitate them - but I'd guess most people also prefer a traditional pair of speakers too. This sits with those who want pseudo-surround sound without going the full 6 or 8 speaker hog.

I don't have the sales figures, but hifi is quite a small market (and shrinking) when compared to AV (including multimedia tech) and if AV can do music, then most people are not going to spend extra on additional hifi. We can not consider ourselves to be part of the group of 'most people' in general and even some of the more modest systems would raise eyebrows for the costs.

"It costs how much and only plays music?"

You only have to flick through WHFS&V to see the evidence of this. Hifi is in the minority compared to other tech in the content and it wasn't always the case.

I'm not debating that. Most people now would likely want to downsize as the functionality to deliver function and form in one package is readily available. I was really referring to speakers and the breadth of choice that is available to consumers at the same sort of price, allied to what I think is a preference by most of those consumers for a traditional speaker over a soundbar.

 

[SolarGlider]

If you want a receiver that can grasp more musical presentations with two-channel playback I would look into 4 brands only. Arcam, Primare, NAD, Anthem. They don't have the full-option possibilities like Yamaha, Denon, Marantz, Onkyo, Pioneer and so on (Ok, maybe the LX series still applies) but they are more of a no fuzz-brands that focus more on the sound then the entire package you will get for the price. Less options (depends on how pricy you are willing to go) but more attention to the sound when it comes with two-channel playback. These brands still have receivers that don't cost a fortune while still performing admirably. I know that Denon has a high-end too but so do these 4 brands and I don't think it applies because it's very expensive. NAD, Anthem and Arcam still have somewhat payable receivers in their line-up as well. I'm not sure about Primare

 

[tino]

Lots of debate and interesting opinions, so thanks to all. The initial question I posed was whether the current crop of affordable AV receivers can have a decent stab of producing stereo for everyday listening in addition to their rich feature/functionality set and HDMI connectivity. I think that played through a decent set of speakers they probaby could do. I'm certainly open to anything available in home cinema that can have a decent stab of producing music approaching 70%-80% of what I am used to hearing through my 2-channel hifi setup I would contemplate something < £300 price range (e.g. Onkyo NR515) and if it sounded something like a Sonos or one of those Denon/Marantz mini all in ones then I think I would be happy

 

[mattmeer]

Arcam and Anthem supposedly make 'musical' AVRs, though they dont make budget models.
The Arcam AVRs are also Class AB, dont know about the Anthem. Most AVRs are the cheaper and smaller Class D, maybe thats why most of the hifi folks dont like them... (Though Pioneer just made a hifi amplifier with Class D that is getting good reviews, so maybe class D is getting better).

 

[drummerman]

I currently use the Receiver (non AV, its a Tuner/Amplifier) in the Bedroom and for my main/living room system a Sony STR DB930 in for 2 channel only.

The 930 has a bit of a cult status amongst Sony Receivers and in my humble opinion for good reason. It sounds effortlessly musical, bouncy, elastic, dynamic and whatever other weird names come to mind. Neutral too. The phono stage is good and the whole receiver is loaded with good quality parts. An equally built AV receiver would, I guess cost quite a bit today but as I am not into HC I can't really comment. - Even the phono stage is good. I've changed a few things but even in original condition it is a very good amplifier.

I would go as far and say the Sony is the closest I have come to a decent valve amplifier with regards to being 'musical' (micro dynamics as opposed to warm and soggy).

That's lucky, maybe I'll hang on to mine then, often wondered why I'd never noticed it performing as poorly in stereo as AV amps are supposed to.

Its no good though if you're into AV and need HDMI and the latest processing.

I just use the multi-channel outs from my BDP, does the job.

Things you can easily do to improve the receiver are disconnecting the S-Video board (and Tuner module if you dont use it although I left mine connected as reception is superb and made my separate Sony Tuner obsolete) plus add some Ferrite cores close to the receiver to any equipment cabling connected including power. Add another after the transformer where the cable harness connects to the mainboard. Remove the underside cover or damp it as it is very resonant, Same with the cover, damp it internally, easily done with some sorbothane or self adhesive felt.

I've replaced the captive standard power lead with a heavier gauge, shielded one and a decent plug. It made a difference. I copper shielded the video board and increased bias by a very small amount. It runs slightly warmer but not hot. Still have to pot the transformer.

Apologies for hijacking the thread and back to the op.

regards

 

[The_Lhc]

I currently use the Receiver (non AV, its a Tuner/Amplifier) in the Bedroom and for my main/living room system a Sony STR DB930 in for 2 channel only.

The 930 has a bit of a cult status amongst Sony Receivers and in my humble opinion for good reason. It sounds effortlessly musical, bouncy, elastic, dynamic and whatever other weird names come to mind.

That's lucky, maybe I'll hang on to mine then, often wondered why I'd never noticed it performing as poorly in stereo as AV amps are supposed to.

Things you can easily do to improve the receiver are disconnecting the S-Video board (and Tuner module if you dont use it although I left mine connected as reception is superb and made my separate Sony Tuner obsolete) plus add some Ferrite cores close to the receiver to any equipment cabling connected including power. Add another after the transformer where the cable harness connects to the mainboard. Remove the underside cover or damp it as it is very resonant, Same with the cover, damp it internally, easily done with some sorbothane or self adhesive felt.

I've replaced the captive standard power lead with a heavier gauge, shielded one and a decent plug. It made a difference. I copper shielded the video board and increased bias by a very small amount. It runs slightly warmer but not hot. Still have to pot the transformer.

We clearly have different values of "easily"! But thanks for the tips, interesting stuff.

 

[drummerman]

Apart from the power lead which requires soldering and the biasing the other stuff really is straight forward.

Ferrite cores are useful, cheap and easy to fit, especially the ones that have collars. Permeability determines filtering frequency so having two or three different ones is useful.

Arcam installs them factory in some (all?) of their amplifiers, even though its usually just a single (size) one. I'd warmly recommend them for any amplifier and other components susceptible to RFI/EMI.

regards

 

[The_Lhc]

Apart from the power lead which requires soldering and the biasing the other stuff really is straight forward.

Yeah but this is my primary (only) amp and the only source of audio for my TV (which doesn't have speakers), so I'm not going to ****** about with it!

Ferrite cores are useful, cheap and easy to fit, especially the ones that have collars.

You just clamp them over the signal cables at the back of the amp?

I'd warmly recommend them for any amplifier and other components susceptible to RFI/EMI.

I've no idea if I suffer from that or not tbh...

 

[drummerman]

That is correct. You can just clamp them or you can get the simple o ring ones for interconnects/speaker cables, in fact anything which allows you to just slide them over or loop the cables through.

regards

 

[relocated]

Panasonic have been including ferrite cores to fit on the mains leads to their plasmas for many years now. I'm sure I read in the manual that they are required by EU law to reduce RFI. I used ferrites for years on my hifi and maintained their place on the cables by the use of plasticene or that wonderful modern[!] replacement, blutac.

 

[chebby]

I have always used ferrite clamps on both TV and FM aerial cables.

I have a couple of TDK clamps on mains leads (where they are not already built-in).

The mains extension already has a 'choke' built into it (and uses screened mains cable).