the sound of music

[admin_exported]

just came from auditioning the Spendors - S4, S5, S6. that's just today. yesterday, I had KEF, Dali and the Hecos.

But, back to the Spendors. I always thought I liked the mellow sound but I had totally no affinity for S6, the mellowest of the lot - it sounded way too warm and muddled to me, because the lows sounded really "blunt" (don't have a better term) and the higher tones were not apparent.

S5 was a tad bit bright but more detailed - S4's tone would have been just nice but a tad bit muddled.

Would a more defined / detailed tone equate to brightness? The salesperson told me that S5 sounded "brighter" because the tweeter was larger, improved from the S4 in order to provide more detail.

Overall, for detail, I would prefer S5, but it could do better at louder volumes, which still sounded too loud to me. So far haven't found a speaker that gave me a controlled loud. Except strangely, maybe the KEF, which was to me, quite bright.

I wonder - I still haven't been able to find speakers that can do louder than low volumes well - i.e. without sounding loud and too much for the ears. My normal $20 audio-technica in-ear speakers seem to do better at "containing" the loud.

Maybe only the KEF - and that with the NAD stereo amp. but that was a little bright for my tastes.

is "good" sound something that takes getting used to? you know, maybe it's been a case of eating MacDonalds all your life, and then suddenly being fed real food, real food doesn't match up because you're so used to eating Macs! or do I need to spend more than the US$2K I have budgeted for because anything less just doesn't meet my sound requirements?

anyway, much as I have talked about Tannoys, I still haven't been able to audition them because the DC6Ts are not in stock. I'm wondering how they will perform.....

 

[ESP2009]

Patience is the key.. If you have the time and opportunity, keep auditioning. Try different hifi outlets for the same equipment; you may hear a difference.

Daft question, but are you taking your own separates in, or relying on the shop to provide equipment?

Remember that you (arguably) can use different interconnects and speaker cables to modify the sound of the speakers. Eg, if a pair of speakers sounds bright but otherwise suits you, the cable you use can tame the excess brightness. I am even told that the relative positioning of the speakers can have a decisive impact.

Hopefully, you will get plenty of advice from the WHF Forum stalwarts on this subject.

 

[Anonymous]

ESP2009:
Daft question, but are you taking your own separates in, or relying on the shop to provide equipment?

haha, no, not a daft question. I'm relying on the shops to provide equipment because at the moment, I have neither amp, speakers, cd player nor anything else. Just a JBL 200D ipod dock that probably won't help at all

the unfortunate thing here in Singapore, is that shops are quite specialized - e.g. the shop that carries Spendor only carries higher end Sugden or Danson amps, and just one Denon AVR. The shop that carries KEF had only NADs. There are some shops that carry more "mainstream" varieties of amps and speakers - but not Spendor or Dynaudio or Monitor and so on

I'm wondering then if it makes more sense to just get the amp and carry it around - but again, the amp and speaker are interdependent, so back to square one....

so yes, you could say I'm relying on the shops for pairings for now....

 

[jaxwired]

upsidesunny:
is "good" sound something that takes getting used to? you know, maybe it's been a case of eating MacDonalds all your life, and then suddenly being fed real food, real food doesn't match up because you're so used to eating Macs! or do I need to spend more than the US$2K I have budgeted for because anything less just doesn't meet my sound requirements?
Definately no. If it doesn't sound good to you, do not buy it under any circumstances. Keep looking. You should be able to find something that thrills you. Wait until you find a speaker that truly excites you. When you find something that you find hard not to buy right there on the spot. Then you've found the right one.
BTW, I think your real problem is that you've neglected to audition Dynaudio...

 

[ESP2009]

Aaaaaargh! Caught between a rock and a hard place, eh? I see your problem. I now recall you mentioning that elsewhere.

It's true that you have to start somewhere, but carrying an amp and CDP around will be easier than carrying a pair of floorstanders!

Good luck - I hope the experienced chaps can advise.

 

[Anonymous]

here's my daft question: what's a DAC?

anyway, at some point I decided to google "how to buy a stereo system" and stumbled upon this: http://everything2.com/title/How+to+buy+a+stereo+system+%2528without+winning+the+lottery%2529

the technicalities just flew over my head...but i did wonder: how many of us actually went through such a detailed buying process?

a friend today told me I should get a recording of a pin dropping but I wonder - do we audition the speakers to play sounds / music for the sake of auditioning detail, when ordinarily, we would never listen to such sounds / music?

and then of course, there's that thing about genre of music...but I think as wide as my music preferences might be, I will just fix on the few I would actually sit down and listen to to figure out the speakers rather than try to play everything from Lord of the Dance to Mozart to Norah Jones to Coldplay and etc etc

 

[ESP2009]

If I had time I would love to do the choosing of my system the proper way, but in common with many, opportunity and finances rarely combine, so the process becomes piecemeal.

For auditioning I have tended to take along a small selection of representative favourites from my collection.

 

[Anonymous]

hmmi'm just thinking of the KEF speakers I auditioned yesterdaythey didn't enter my shortlist because paired with an NAD AVR, it was airy, superficial and bright - plus it didn't help that the sales guy was all uppitybut paired with an NAD stereo amp, it sounded fuller, details came out better, and while still bright, the fact that the sound had more body made up a little for the brightnessso I wonder, would it make sense to pair extremes - bright speakers + more mellow amps, like Denon?it seems to me that brighter speakers have greater detail so maybe not so bright but more powerful amps may tone down the brightness yet retain the detail?case in point were the Dali Ikon6 I tried out yesterday. they were very bright, very detailed, but were really awful with the CA and Roksan, yet did very well with the old Denon AVR4308. At least to my ears. It's only a pity that it had to shriek at mid-high volumes.

 

[ESP2009]

upsidesunny:hmmi'm just thinking of the KEF speakers I auditioned yesterdaythey didn't enter my shortlist because paired with an NAD AVR, it was airy, superficial and bright - plus it didn't help that the sales guy was all uppitybut paired with an NAD stereo amp, it sounded fuller, details came out better, and while still bright, the fact that the sound had more body made up a little for the brightnessso I wonder, would it make sense to pair extremes - bright speakers + more mellow amps, like Denon?it seems to me that brighter speakers have greater detail so maybe not so bright but more powerful amps may tone down the brightness yet retain the detail?case in point were the Dali Ikon6 I tried out yesterday. they were very bright, very detailed, but were really awful with the CA and Roksan, yet did very well with the old Denon AVR4308. At least to my ears. It's only a pity that it had to shriek at mid-high volumes.

A lot of folk out there will talk about synergy; about how matching your components must be done with care because pairing a 'bright' amp with 'bright' speakers and using silver-treated cables will be very likely to be plain unlistenable. Of course, the reverse is equally likely to be true. So you are right in thinking that it is good to pair components that either enhance one another's strengths or maybe tone down certain weaknesses, for want of a better description. Again, think about the kind of interconnect and/or speaker cable that will be used (and may influence the sound further).

Another consideration is that some speakers are harder to drive than others and give only their best when the amp is turned up. Others start to give their best at lower volumes and so may not need to shout. I understand that high impedence is (generally) better.

Keep up with the search, but try to find a dealer who is happy to offer home trials, particularly if you settle on a pair of floorstanders. That way you can at least try out a range of amps, etc, in the true environment in which they will be performing.

 

[ESP2009]

upsidesunny:

here's my daft question: what's a DAC?

Oops, almost missed that one! DAC = Digital to Analogue Converter. From my limited knowledge the DAC is part of your standard CDP, turning the little 1s and 0s into audio. You can add external DACs to boost performance and they don't necessarily have to be limited to use with a CDP.

Again, minds greater than mine can provide further information. Take a look through the WHF website at reviews and the forum threads. There's plenty of info.

 

[Anonymous]

ESP2009:
Another consideration is that some speakers are harder to drive than others and give only their best when the amp is turned up. Others start to give their best at lower volumes and so may not need to shout. I understand that high impedence is (generally) better.

higher impedance = more powerful?

yes, I wonder too if I need to up my budget more. there's a lot of mention of room treatment - that's something I can do less about at the moment cos it involves this other can of worms called "home decor"! will probably start off with a rug first....

that said, I wrote down my sound preferences yesterday, and realize I AM fussy. Will US$1.5K give me speakers to meet the following sound needs?

- I like mellow. or at least i used to think i like mellow but after listening to spendor's S6, supposedly the most mellow, I'm not so sure. sounds too muffled and muddled too me

- i'm not for bright, sharp, tinkly sounds. I like to hear detail - no I don't need to hear a pin drop, but I'd like to be able to pick out different harmonies, and various parts / instruments should shine when they are meant to shine. mid tones should also not get lost amidst the high and low tones

- details should be apparent at low and high volumes, yet at high volume, the sound should still retain its shape without sounding too overbearingly loud and shrieky

- I like my bass, but not HT style or overbearing bass. Think the bass parts of jazz music, or heartbeat kind of bass, like when Josh Groban sings "To Where you Are" - but it shouldn't take over the song

- and I like a full sound, sound with body, a well-rounded sound. Think Shiraz instead of Merlot

and so the hunt goes on....

 

[ESP2009]

upsidesunny:ESP2009:
Another consideration is that some speakers are harder to drive than others and give only their best when the amp is turned up. Others start to give their best at lower volumes and so may not need to shout. I understand that high impedence is (generally) better.

higher impedance = more powerful?

Not as such. Try this (and other online articles):

LINK REMOVED BY MODS - House Rules

Other than that, it sounds as though only your ears are going to aid your search. Keep changing the source components around to gauge the resultant sound from speakers. There must be a dealer somewhere with a wider range for you to audition?

Good Luck!

 

[Anonymous]

yes, there's a dealer with a pretty wide range - but still not wide enough to cover everything

they carry B&W, Tannoys, Quad, Mordaunt Short, Definitive, Wharfedale with Denon, Yamaha, Roksan, Marantz, Cyrus etc, but no Monitors, Dynaudio, Spendor, Paradigm, Dali etc

I think it'll be a longggg process.

anyway, just listened to Dynaudio's Excite series. Paired with a Danson amp / CDP, it was really sweet. even in a showroom with a lot of glass (just like my apartment)

The Monitor Audio RX8s were really nice and clear too, even in the mid tones. Actually, I think the mid tones sounded better than the Dyns, just that the bass sounded a little overpowering at times, though not as bad as Spendor's S5. The Monitors were paired with Cayin amp and cd player.

The one that made the most impression today - the Monitor Platinum series. It was so amazingly enveloping!! but at US$12K for the entire set up, wayyy above my budget.

Oh. And I listened to the Tannoy Rev Sig DC4T speakers again today, this time with a proper stereo amp and cd player (Cyrus) and was disappointed. The Dynaudio and MA speakers beat it hands down!!! there was very little clarity and definition

So I guess now it's narrowed down a little to Dynaudio and MA speakers. The salesguy mentions that Dynaudio is more neutral and easier to pair. Is that true? What amps would go with Dynaudio?

over the next few days, I'll probably give the AE, Totem, Paradigms, Triangles a shot....and whatever other strange speaker brands I see in that whole audio shopping centre that somehow haven't been discussed in these forums (or don't sound v mainstream!!!)

 

[ESP2009]

Bear in mind that members of the WHF forum do not always confine themselves to this site alone: there are other sites to check out for opinion. [Closes eyes and braces for impact

].

 

[Anonymous]

haha, yes i know

 

[Andrew Everard]

Absolutely: there's this one, too...