The relationship between recording quality and musical taste

[Big Chris]

Twas ever thus:

Only more so.

 

[John Duncan]

At least people get to vote for the new ones. The Monkees were more a coup d'état.

 

[Big Chris]

I'm not directing my snipes at the artistes themselves. They're riding the gravy train, hopefully enjoying every minute as they do. Many of them are annoying and I wish I was oblivious to their very existence, but c'est la vie. I've got a remote and can turn them off at will, and it's not as if reality TV pop stars have exclusive rights on being annoying.

More frustrating is the general behaviour of the listening public. I find it sad that the majority of people don't just sit down and listen to music.... Even occasionally. It's gotta be a backdrop for other things that are going on in their lives. Yes, we're all busy, but for god's sake give the TV a rest once in a while and stick on some music! Whatever music you want! 'B* - bloody - Witched' for all I care!

 

[The_Lhc]

Yes, we're all busy, but for god's sake give the TV a rest once in a while and stick on some music! Whatever music you want! 'B* - bloody - Witched' for all I care!

Steady on, let's not go too far here...

 

[Alec]

At least people get to vote for the new ones. The Monkees were more a coup d'état.

I'm stealing this and using it on my social network site page. Speak to my lawyers.

 

[idc]

As the loudness wars help to lower sound quality, the kit such as ipods have improved it. Outside of audiophiles I think many do not understand or know what they are missing.

 

[Macspur]

Sadly there is an awful lot of truth in the blog .

I will admit that sound quality is one factor that is very important to me when I buy music and fortunately most of the music I like is well recorded , but then I don't buy music from any new mainstream artists because to my ear 99% of it is over compressed manufactured c**p by people who are just out to make money and put little of themselves in the music so it just sounds soulless and bland .

A sweeping statement I know, but it really upsets me that music has become just another consumerist commodity when it should be something that touches you heart and soul .

The last Coldplay offering Mylo Xyloto is a prime example of this .

Cheers

Mac

 

[shafesk]

Sadly there is an awful lot of truth in the blog .

I will admit that sound quality is one factor that is very important to me when I buy music and fortunately most of the music I like is well recorded , but then I don't buy music from any new mainstream artists because to my ear 99% of it is over compressed manufactured c**p by people who are just out to make money and put little of themselves in the music so it just sounds soulless and bland .

A sweeping statement I know, but it really upsets me that music has become just another consumerist commodity when it should be something that touches you heart and soul .

The last Coldplay offering Mylo Xyloto is a prime example of this .

Cheers

Mac

Absolutely agree

 

[CnoEvil]

I know I'm far from the target audience as it's possible to be, but the pop industry/ reality show tie-in is the thing that irks me the most.

Gone are the days a young aspiring star would do the pubs & clubs, if they were lucky they'd get spotted by someone important enough to get them on bigger shows with established acts, then maybe a bit of radio or TV airplay..... You're on your way.

Now it's: think you can sing? Audition for some reality TV show, up your chances by having a gimmick. Get a deal, record 2 albums before you've ever sung a note on stage. Sell your CDs to people who say they want your CD, but 3 years after receiving it for Christmas, it's still in the cellophane on the shelf*.

*True story. My Mother-In-Law's Leona Lewis CD has never been out of the wrapper.

It's all a bit sad.....

This would also be my view.......Longevity will be the acid test of who has great talent.

Don't get me wrong, there are some great modern artists, but you have to dig a little deeper.

 

[shafesk]

I know I'm far from the target audience as it's possible to be, but the pop industry/ reality show tie-in is the thing that irks me the most.

Gone are the days a young aspiring star would do the pubs & clubs, if they were lucky they'd get spotted by someone important enough to get them on bigger shows with established acts, then maybe a bit of radio or TV airplay..... You're on your way.

Now it's: think you can sing? Audition for some reality TV show, up your chances by having a gimmick. Get a deal, record 2 albums before you've ever sung a note on stage. Sell your CDs to people who say they want your CD, but 3 years after receiving it for Christmas, it's still in the cellophane on the shelf*.

*True story. My Mother-In-Law's Leona Lewis CD has never been out of the wrapper.

It's all a bit sad.....

This would also be my view.......Longevity will be the acid test of who has great talent.

Don't get me wrong, there are some great modern artists, but you have to dig a little deeper.

I think we are having to dig a lot deeper nowadays to be honest, finding a good contemporary artist with good quality recording is even harder imho

 

[rjb70stoke]

Sadly there is an awful lot of truth in the blog .

I will admit that sound quality is one factor that is very important to me when I buy music and fortunately most of the music I like is well recorded , but then I don't buy music from any new mainstream artists because to my ear 99% of it is over compressed manufactured c**p by people who are just out to make money and put little of themselves in the music so it just sounds soulless and bland .

A sweeping statement I know, but it really upsets me that music has become just another consumerist commodity when it should be something that touches you heart and soul .

The last Coldplay offering Mylo Xyloto is a prime example of this .

Cheers

Mac

Conversely, if I check my iTunes play count, Mylo Xyloto is my most played album by some distance and I've been using iTunes for nearly 10 years now.

Dont get me wrong I don't think of it as the best album ever, or even my favourite album ever, but it's stuck in my conscience, and I play it at home, in the car and at work, don't know why it just makes me feel good.

I haven't found the sound quality any better or worse than any modern MP3 era album. And if the sound quality is the paramount importance surely you should just listen to live music.

Seems to me that artists can't win, Coldplay have no soul, U2 were always too political, The Smiths too depressing even One Direction, too pretty boy. What does it matter as long as you enjoy it and find something in it. I rediscovered Joy Division in the aftermath of my fathers passing, it just matched my mood. Now I have little objection to One Direction when I see my daughters face light up when they're on TV or radio, tells me that they have struck a chord with her in some way (she's 10 by the way), much like artists have throughout the years.

 

[DandyCobalt]

Wasn't Tamla Motown an extreme music factory? And their songwriters had required numbers of songs to churn out each week?

A lot of it sounded extremely similar and formulaic. It's just the good ones ( a percentage) that have endured.

There are contemporary artists, like Jonathan Wilson, and even Slash, that are keen on producing very good quality music at source (reference to analogue tape in the sleeve notes is a good clue to their devotion).

Can we call Leonard Cohen contemporary - 'cos his new album is pretty fine too?

 

[Paul.]

When I was a kid, I saved up, I bought a cassette and it was like a lottery. Is it going to be good or is the track I heard on the radio going to be good and everything else is filler?

Now, I can hear a minute and a half on iTunes before I buy, I can hear all of it on spotify before I buy, I can use social networking to see what friends that have moved to Australia like, I can use software to recommend new artists based on my current listening habits, I can pull down thousands of tracks magically stored somewhere else over a 3G connection should I need them....

In summery, if the cost is a little loss of dynamic range, please don't make me go back! I think its a price worth paying.

 

[John Duncan]

Speak to my lawyers.

No point, I gave away my copyright the minute I pressed send:

"By submitting any content to the Website, you grant Haymarket the right to use such content and all material embodied therein for any purposes including, without limitation, to edit, copy, reproduce, translate, disclose, post and/or remove such content from the Website and hereby waive all of the moral rights that you have under Chapter IV of the Copyright, Design and Patents Act 1988 in respect of any material you post to the Website"

 

[Alec]

Ha! I'll just have to hope Haymarket don't object then.

 

[Electro]

When I was a kid, I saved up, I bought a cassette and it was like a lottery. Is it going to be good or is the track I heard on the radio going to be good and everything else is filler?

Now, I can hear a minute and a half on iTunes before I buy, I can hear all of it on spotify before I buy, I can use social networking to see what friends that have moved to Australia like, I can use software to recommend new artists based on my current listening habits, I can pull down thousands of tracks magically stored somewhere else over a 3G connection should I need them....

In summery, if the cost is a little loss of dynamic range, please don't make me go back! I think its a price worth paying.

Never mind the quality feel the width

Sorry had to do that but seriously spotify and similar services are brilliant for sampling music before buying or listening on the move but not for serious listening on a proper HiFi system IMO of course

 

[The_Lhc]

but seriously spotify and similar services are brilliant for sampling music before buying or listening on the move but not for serious listening on a proper HiFi system IMO of course

Have you ever actually tried it?

 

[Electro]

but seriously spotify and similar services are brilliant for sampling music before buying or listening on the move but not for serious listening on a proper HiFi system IMO of course

Have you ever actually tried it?

I have to admit not with my main system but if I play a track from spotify on my modest computer system and then play the same track from a Cd the Cd sounds better . I suppose I should really stream it to my main system before making a final judgement but I can only imagine it would make the margin of difference even larger , but I suppose I should try it just to make sure

 

[The_Lhc]

but seriously spotify and similar services are brilliant for sampling music before buying or listening on the move but not for serious listening on a proper HiFi system IMO of course

Have you ever actually tried it?

I have to admit not with my main system but if I play a track from spotify on my modest computer system and then play the same track from a Cd the Cd sounds better . I suppose I should really stream it to my main system before making a final judgement but I can only imagine it would make the margin of difference even larger , but I suppose I should try it just to make sure

Yes, using a DAC that is at least the equivalent of the one in your CD player, otherwise it's a null test.

 

[matthewpiano]

I'm with Electro. Despite paying £10 a month for Spotify and having it set to best quality I can still hear a significant difference between the sound of an album on Spotify, and the sound of the same album on CD. I have found the same whether streaming Spotify through my Onkyo 8050 (and comparing it to a digital stream into the Onkyo's DAC from a CD player), or through my Squeezebox Touch (analogue connection to my NAD amp and compared to analogue feed from my NAD CD player).

In terms of the original post , I don't really want to get into a big debate about value judgements in music other than to say there are technical standards in writing music and various levels of technical and musical sophistication. With my musicology background I can appreciate these standards and differentiate, BUT I feel that for most people most of the time (and I include myself in this) whether or not you enjoy the music is far more important. I listen to plenty of music that my musicological training should make me critical of, but if it speaks to me, regardless of the technical accomplishment, I'm not going to allow my background to dictate what I should or shouldn't listen to. If anybody does wish to look at this from a more academic perspective the 'Essays on Music' by Adorno make very fascinating, if involved, reading.

With regards to recording quality I often feel that some genres benefit from more consistent recording quality than others, although there is often an assumption that classical music is consistently well recorded. I've heard and own more than my fair share of very average recordings of classical works, alhtough I do think that there are more exceptional recordings of this repertoire than most. However, there is some brilliant work being done in popular music recording too both in the original recording process and in some remastering/remixing. Anyone who doubts this should listen to Steven Wilson's remixing for the 40th Anniversary remaster of Jethro Tull's 'Aqualung', which finally brings to life a superb album that has never previously had the sound quality it deserves. Other examples of great contemporary work includes the Portico Quartet's albums which are beautifully recorded, and the bulk of the Counting Crow's output. There are copious other examples out there.

 

[The_Lhc]

I'm with Electro. Despite paying £10 a month for Spotify and having it set to best quality I can still hear a significant difference between the sound of an album on Spotify, and the sound of the same album on CD. I have found the same whether streaming Spotify through my Onkyo 8050 (and comparing it to a digital stream into the Onkyo's DAC from a CD player), or through my Squeezebox Touch (analogue connection to my NAD amp and compared to analogue feed from my NAD CD player).

But you at least have experience to back up your assertation, which, if I'm honest, is the only point I was trying to make previously. I don't even have Spotify on my main system (I only use it to listen to stuff on my laptop when at work).

 

[paradiziac]

I think everyone is showing their age on this thread...

There is so much brilliant, diverse and well-recorded music out there today, I don't hear any general decrease in quality...

But, the music charts are less relevant than ever before, so I suppose if you use that as a guide for what people are actually listening to it could be pretty depressing.

RE: Spotify

Don't know about streamers, but I can hear a slight degradation on Spotify on the Macmini v ripped CDs -- but the fact that Spotify doesn't play local lossless files makes comparision impossible. If I encode the lossless file to 320kb/s .ogg file (as Spotify uses) and compare this file to lossless (using Foobar or Audirvana), I can't hear any difference.

IMO, the Spotify player software isn't as good as it could be, for example if it supported WASAPI on Windows it would sound better and probably identical to ripped CDs.

Cynical me thinks this is deliberate--why would anyone then buy a CD or pay to download an mp3 if it was on Spotify at exactly the same quality?

All that said, Spotify (via the Macmini on my main system) is so close to the rip of the CD that most of the time I don't actually bother to open up another music player and play the lossless file. And the Macmini+Legato itself is a much better transport than my ailing NAD CD player which, for me, is worse than Spotify (into the same DAC as the Macmini)!

So now I'm collecting cheap used backup CDs that I never play :doh:

 

[matthewpiano]

There is so much brilliant, diverse and well-recorded music out there today, I don't hear any general decrease in quality...

But, the music charts are less relevant than ever before, so I suppose if you use that as a guide for what people are actually listening to it could be pretty depressing.

I would agree wholeheartedly with this. I listen to a lot of older music, of all genres, but I also enjoy some brilliant contemporary music. Last year I saw Blackfield and Pineapple Thief live and they were both as good as any of the older bands I love. There are several recent albums I would list within my absolute favourites including:

Blackfield

Blackfield II

Blackfield - Welcome To My DNA

Alice Gold - Seven Rainbows

The Villagers - Becoming A Jackal

Midlake - The Courage of Others

Counting Crows - Hard Candy

Mawkin: Causley - The Awkward Recruit

There is some brilliant music being written, performed and recorded today.

 

[The_Lhc]

But, the music charts are less relevant than ever before

To whom? You're showing your age with that comment! I listen to more chart music now than I did when I was a teenager, I certainly buy more of it (although admittedly we're only talking 2 or 3 tracks a year, that's more than I used to).

It might not be relevant to you as you're getting older but it's certainly as relevant to the mainstream music buying public (before anybody thinks to disagree because the charts are irrelevant to them, I'd strongly suggest that almost none of us here fall into that category) as it ever has been. It's just that that public isn't the same public as it was ten, 20, 30, 40 or 50 years ago.

 

[paradiziac]

But, the music charts are less relevant than ever before

To whom? You're showing your age with that comment! I listen to more chart music now than I did when I was a teenager, I certainly buy more of it (although admittedly we're only talking 2 or 3 tracks a year, that's more than I used to).

It might not be relevant to you as you're getting older but it's certainly as relevant to the mainstream music buying public (before anybody thinks to disagree because the charts are irrelevant to them, I'd strongly suggest that almost none of us here fall into that category) as it ever has been. It's just that that public isn't the same public as it was ten, 20, 30, 40 or 50 years ago.

If the chart is relevant to you, and you enjoy it, why not! I would say there's good stuff there from time to time though not always my personal cuppa.

But I just make the point that the chart (or the "mainstream") doesn't have the importance it once did, and the quality of the chart shouldn't be used as an excuse to lament a general decline in musical/recording standards.

When I first started buying records as a teenager, it was a trip every couple of weeks to record shops in Leeds or Manchester to get stuff I wanted, that and/or staying up to tape stuff on the radio. If I went to my local Woolies it was "if it isn't in the top 40 we don't sell it". So it was hard for stuff not in the Top 40 to even get heard (daytime radio was also dominated by the charts and whatever was lucky enough to make the Radio 1 playlist, as judged by the invisible arbiters of musical taste).

But now, there's billions of tracks available on demand on Spotify, Grooveshark, Hypemachine, Soundcloud...plus the potential to buy them with one click. Not to mention internet radio from all over the world, artist websites, label websites, YouTube ... You don't need the charts to tell you if it's any good, there's also Spotify apps, last FM, loads of reviews everywhere, social media...or just click and listen!

RE: the OP, I still don't agree. I would say that hugely popular acts such as Lady Gaga and Adele are in fact very well-produced and sound equally good (or bad!) though a good hifi as they do through a cheap midi system/av setup/iPod.

There might be a few bad remasters around, but then they can always be re-re-mastered or released in "hi-res"!