Switching from solid to tube amp

[DocG]

While you are gathering funds, do as much demoing and reading as possible....and to start with, here is the adventures of Acalex, who was from Brussels and ended up with a Jadis Valve amp: http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/new-amplifier-my-long-journey

Yeah, the adventures of Alex and Roby in Hi-Fi land... those were the days!

 

[DocG]

I'm from Ghent in East-Flanders! First and foremost the amp should match my music style (and speakers). If solid is the way for me, so be it. I'm just a sucker for the looks and heard good things about the sound. I also like to listen to vinyl records not that i'm a purised (although the sound is a bit warmer than digital) but I also enjoy the design of my record player (pro-ject debut carbon) and the whole process associated with listening to records. Like i said. If anyone can point me in the direction of a very good solid state on my budget, i would be more than happy to check it out!

Ha, so we're neighbours!

The thing is: it's difficult to assess the quality of your current Sony amp. I agree with what Cno says: if it ain't broken, save up for a real upgrade later on. If you'd like to try valves, you have access to Quad (Radiyole) and Leben and McIntosh (Wide Screen Audio) in Ghent , and Unison Research and Synthesis very nearby (Mimesis Audio; he also stocks the Pathos valve/solid state hybrid amps). For more choice, you can go to Antwerp (Technology Factory, Gydotron, Hifi Corner -- avoid Alpha High End). And then there's Brussels, or Terneuzen, ... See? Plenty of choice in little Belgium!

If you need to buy now, and stay within budget, I would go second-hand and solid-state. There's an Arcam A-28 available, or a NAD C356DAC, for €500 each. If you can stretch the budget a little, a Peachtree Nova125 at €820 could be an excellent choice (has a powerful class D power amp, but a valve buffer in the pre-amp and looks nice). There's also an Exposure 3010 S for €875...

(BTW, it's a long shot, but you didn't buy your speakers second-hand, from a Dutch guy living in Ghent, did you?)

 

[CnoEvil]

The thing is: it's difficult to assess the quality of your current Sony amp. I agree with what Cno says: if it ain't broken, save up for a real upgrade later on. If you'd like to try valves, you have access to Quad (Radiyole) and Leben and McIntosh (Wide Screen Audio) in Ghent , and Unison Research and Synthesis very nearby (Mimesis Audio; he also stocks the Pathos valve/solid state hybrid amps). For more choice, you can go to Antwerp (Technology Factory, Gydotron, Hifi Corner -- avoid Alpha High End). And then there's Brussels, or Terneuzen, ... See? Plenty of choice in little Belgium!

If you need to buy now, and stay within budget, I would go second-hand and solid-state. There's an Arcam A-28 available, or a NAD C356DAC, for €500 each. If you can stretch the budget a little, a Peachtree Nova125 at €820 could be an excellent choice (has a powerful class D power amp, but a valve buffer in the pre-amp and looks nice). There's also an Exposure 3010 S for €875...

(BTW, it's a long shot, but you didn't buy your speakers second-hand, from a Dutch guy living in Ghent, did you?)

Nathan would be very wise to take your advice on board, and as his budget expands, check out the likes of Quad, Pathos, Leben, Unison Research, Synthesis and Macintosh.

As for now, I totally agree with Arcam, Nad, Peachtree and Exposure as possibilities...though I'm intrigued by how the lovely looking Advance Acoustics XA 160 would sound.....

EDIT. I've just realized it's only a Power Amp *fool*.....that's what you get for navigating a foreign language!

 

[nathandb]

Hi DocG, nice to meet you!

As Cno pointed out it might be a good thing to get the Sony amp checked. I already bought my Pro-Ject turntable at Radiyole so maybe they would help me out to see if it still works as it should. And in case it would need servicing, if it is really worth it or it would be better to start looking at something new. While i'm there i can also ask about the valve amps. They're always very friendly and probably could help me.

I had a quick look and that Peachtree Nova 125! It does like nice and the fact it has a build in DAC also helps me alot as i have most of my music stored on my macbook. I would have to get a phone stage but that's not that big of a cost.

I didn't get my speakers second hand. I bought them @ audioaffair in the UK. Another Belgian on this forum pointed out that they are priced very sharp and ship to our little country. All together it costed me about 650€ instead of 1000€ i would've paid here!

 

[DocG]

Yes, Rudy is a very friendly guy, and passionate about his music -- and about the gear he sells. If you have the time, ask him to set up the Quad ESL speakers for you. That's quite an experience, believe me! And when the hifi-bug has really bitten you, he can demo the Linn DS range of streamers for you!*diablo*

The Peachtree will drive your Tannoys effortlessly, and you could switch the tube buffer on and off depending on your mood, or the music you play! The (private) seller lives near the coast though, so not that easy to demo it with your speakers... And I would not buy without the option to demo first!

As for your speakers: one of the guys on the forum here, Broner, lives in Ghent and sold his Tannoys a couple of months ago. Hence my question... But that would have been too much of a coincidence, right?

 

[stevebrock]

Practically impossible to get a home demo of a valvle amp!

Icon Audio in Leciester will happily let you demo one at home, at £1699 for the ST40 with KT88 valves its bit of a gamble as you have to pay for the amp first then if you find you dont like it then you can return it but they charge a 20% re-stocking fee!

I did demo mine at their place, but agreed its very hard to demo the less mainstream brands.

To the OP, always dimissed a valve amp on the grounds of space & safety with small kids in the house but I have never looked back!

 

[nathandb]

That would've been too much of a coincidence indeed! I'm going to get my Sony checked out and maybe email the seller of the peachtree and check it out. I'll definitely ask about it when I visit Radiyole!

 

[Infiniteloop]

Whilst I concur with your post the first line highlights the problem. Even in the UK it is extremely hard to get to actually audition a solid-state amp that isn't one of the mainstream variety. Getting to audition a valve amplifier is nigh on impossible for most people without travelling a great distance. With fuel costs of today this just isn't going to happen. That's just the UK, other countries may present even nore difficulties. Not too sure where the OP is in the world but ruddy good luck to him in trying to audition valve amps, especially ones within his budget.

If you don't want to venture further than your nearest highstreet, then it's certainly a problem. If you do your research, there is usually somewhere that you can go and make a day of it, in order to hear some less mainstream stuff.

My nearest dealer is over an hours drive away, the other is nearly 2 hours away.....and if there was a bit of kit that required a trip to Dublin (3.5 hrs), then that is what I would do....it's well worth the investment, if it produces a system that gives years of pleasure.

I can almost guarantee you that it doesn't occur to most people to even look, as they are not aware of the products in the first place (or they just want to follow the crowd).

Totally agree Cno.

This is one of those facets of this hobby that isn't directly related to listening per se, but gets you out of the house and meeting other people of a similar mind.

I live in South Cheshire but have travelled down to Birmingham, up to Manchester and across to Leicester, Nottingham and Cleethorpes in search of understanding how various bits of kit sound. In every case I met nice people and learned something.

 

[Infiniteloop]

If you are enterprising you could make up a valve amplifier kit. Valve circuits are very simple and a have a small number of components. You would need to have some practice at soldering if you have never done it before but actually it is very easy. You should get very good value for money doing it this way.

Chris

I'd just add that anyone attempting this should be really careful about following instructions to the letter, as Valve Amps run very high, potentially lethal, voltages....

 

[friendly_ghost]

I'm from Ghent in East-Flanders! First and foremost the amp should match my music style (and speakers). If solid is the way for me, so be it. I'm just a sucker for the looks and heard good things about the sound. I also like to listen to vinyl records not that i'm a purised (although the sound is a bit warmer than digital) but I also enjoy the design of my record player (pro-ject debut carbon) and the whole process associated with listening to records. Like i said. If anyone can point me in the direction of a very good solid state on my budget, i would be more than happy to check it out!

Ha, so we're neighbours!

The thing is: it's difficult to assess the quality of your current Sony amp. I agree with what Cno says: if it ain't broken, save up for a real upgrade later on. If you'd like to try valves, you have access to Quad (Radiyole) and Leben and McIntosh (Wide Screen Audio) in Ghent , and Unison Research and Synthesis very nearby (Mimesis Audio; he also stocks the Pathos valve/solid state hybrid amps). For more choice, you can go to Antwerp (Technology Factory, Gydotron, Hifi Corner -- avoid Alpha High End). And then there's Brussels, or Terneuzen, ... See? Plenty of choice in little Belgium!

If you need to buy now, and stay within budget, I would go second-hand and solid-state. There's an Arcam A-28 available, or a NAD C356DAC, for €500 each. If you can stretch the budget a little, a Peachtree Nova125 at €820 could be an excellent choice (has a powerful class D power amp, but a valve buffer in the pre-amp and looks nice). There's also an Exposure 3010 S for €875...

(BTW, it's a long shot, but you didn't buy your speakers second-hand, from a Dutch guy living in Ghent, did you?)

(sorry off-topic)

This is good information for me DocG, I'm currently living in Antwerp. I've bought my stuff at HiFiCorner and was really pleased with the help I got there. Any reason in particular not to go to Alpha High End? They seem to stock a lot of brands and it's close to my apartment, but I wouldn't want to go there if you really have had a bad experience there?

 

[DocG]

This is good information for me DocG, I'm currently living in Antwerp. I've bought my stuff at HiFiCorner and was really pleased with the help I got there. Any reason in particular not to go to Alpha High End? They seem to stock a lot of brands and it's close to my apartment, but I wouldn't want to go there if you really have had a bad experience there?

Hi Ghost,

It's all just very anecdotal, of course (one man's experience). I'll give you the facts.

- When I was looking to demo Magnepan speakers, he tried to sell me Martin Logan Ethos speakers, way over budget, saying "it could do with lesser amplification, cos it has its own bass amplification". The latter is correct, but these speakers are very demanding for an amplifier, with their extremely low impedance at higher frequencies. So bad advice.

- When I bought my Devialet amp, he gave me a demo model from the shop "by mistake" (instead of the brandnew one that I had paid for). The explanation when I confronted him with the facts didn't make sense at all.

- My (new) amp then had an issue (burnt smell when powered). I took it to Antwerp, and he sent it to Devialet in Paris. A couple of weeks later, I got a phone call that the amp was back. All costs were covered by the warranty, except the shipping (50 EUR IIRC). Devialet though confirmed me they had paid the shipping (antwerp-Paris and Paris-Antwerp)! When I told the dealer what I had learnt, I didn't have to pay for the shipping anymore!

- And finally, when I went to collect my amp, an employee made fun of me "because apparently I didn't know what I want". A mail to complain about that behaviour was never answered...

So no, I'm never going back there, not even to collect the 250 EUR worth of cables, I was promised as a discount on the amp!

I hurry to add that Chris, who runs the Brasschaat shop is much nicer and knows his equipment very well... But he's not the boss there...

 

[friendly_ghost]

Duly noted! Thanks for the info

 

[nathandb]

Hi DocG,

I just came back from Radiyole. Rudy cleaned up my amp and said it looked really well. He thinks i would have to spend about 2000€ to get something better. So i'm going to keep it for now untill my budget stretches big time! What i will be looking for is a decent DAC. A lot of my music is on my macbook and atm i just use an aux cable to my audio jack. Any suggestions here?

 

[DocG]

Hi Nathan,

That is good news indeed! Now I'm not really into separate DACs, as my amp has a DAC inside.

I think it would be good to start a new thread for this new question. Just give us as good as possible an idea what your DAC should do (inputs, outputs, just PCM or also DSD, volume control/preamp, remote, ...) and what your budget would be. In my personal opinion, a good DAC is a substantial upgrade over a standard computer soundcard, but the difference in sound quality between different DACs is a lot less prominent. Features and ease of use are at least as important here.

See you soon in your new thread...*smile*

EDIT: Widescreen Audio might be a good place to start listening, with Audiolab (Q-DAC or M-DAC) and Rega on offer. I'm not sure what he has on demo in the shop though...

Or you can contact Mr. Mathus at Mimesis Audio in Lovendegem for the Arcam DACs (irDAC or airDAC).

But IMO you should hear some cheaper offers too, before spending 400-800 EUR on a DAC.

 

[DocG]

Actually, I just reread the whole thread. And if you intended to spend some 600 EUR on a new amp (which now you luckily won't have to), it would be silly (IMO) to fork out 400-800 EUR on a DAC.

Maybe ask Rudy if he has the Project USB-DAC on demo (not sure about the official retail price, but it shouldn't be more than 200 EUR). Or there's always the Audioquest Dragonfly v1.2, available online for just 149 EUR in the Bax webshop (buy without demo, but 60 days money back guarantee).

Both should make for a substantial upgrade over the pc's analogue output, for a very reasonable price...

 

[nathandb]

Actually that's a pretty good idea. I told him i would probably come by next week to audit his Linn system in the shop. I'll ask him about the DAC. A substantial upgrade over my pc is what i'm looking for but as you've pointed out, i'm not eager to spend 400€ on a DAC. Just something basic with a good value for money!

Thanks Doc