Surround for my PS3 - Please HELP!!!

[Liam19]

I'm not exactly an expert when it comes to AV stuff, so I'll just explain my situation as best I can. I have a few questions, and any suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated!

I have a Panasonic TH-42PX70 plasma TV, with a Sony PlayStation 3 and a Panasonic SC-PT450 EB-K DVD 'home cinema in a box' system both hooked up to the TV via HDMI.

Since I perceive the TV's speakers to be of pretty poor quality, I use the surround system's speakers instead (only the front 2 work for TV and PS3, whilst all 5 do for DVD) which I find to be a significant improvement on the TV speakers.

I had hoped, after being impressed by the Blu-ray picture performance, to be able to hook up my PS3 properly to the surround system so that all 5 speakers would be utilised. Much to my annoyance, I have discovered the SC-PT450 has neither an optical nor coaxial digital input, which (to my knowledge) effectively brings an end to any hope of surround for my PS3 using this surround system. Can anyone prove me wrong? (Please? It'd save me a lot of cash! lol)

Otherwise, I am now looking to replace this system in the hope of achieving better sound quality with my PS3. The vast majority of similarly priced 'home cinema in a box' systems I've looked at have an optical input (again, annoying), so that I'd be able connect it and get at least 5 channels of sound. I am, however, confused by the issue of HD audio formats on BDs (Dolby TrueHD etc.) - when I switch to one of these with my current 2-channel setup, I still find the sound to be noticeably clearer and punchier even though it obviously isn't true HD quality. Would it sound even better to me when played through 5 channels?

With a limited budget (ideally no more than £300, but perhaps a bit more), I don't expect to be able to stretch to a better multichannel receiver/separates system. Can anyone suggest a DVD 'home cinema in a box' system which will give me 5 channels of audio, and sound reasonable/decent when playing Blu-ray audio via digital optical cable from my PS3?

Sorry about all the questions, but I'm mightily confused! Thank you in advance for any advice.

 

[Anonymous]

Liam19:
I had hoped,ÿafter being impressed by the Blu-ray picture performance,ÿto be able to hookÿup my PS3ÿproperly to the surround system so that all 5 speakers would be utilised. Much to my annoyance, I have discovered the SC-PT450 has neither an optical nor coaxial digital input, which (to my knowledge) effectively brings an end to any hope of surround for my PS3 using this surround system. Can anyone prove me wrong? (Please? It'd save me a lot of cash!ÿlol)

The only option here would be to set your system to Dolby Pro Logic. This uses algorithms to work out (guess) the surround channels. It's not proper surround sound.ÿ

Your current system cannot accept HD sound so you should not be able to notice any difference, how are you connecting your PS3, both audio/video?ÿ

 

[Liam19]

Of course, you're right in saying that my system can't accept HD sound, but I swear I do perceive at least a slight improvement in sound quality when I switch from Dolby Digital 5.1 to Dolby TrueHD on my Batman Begins BD. OK, it's probably just me, then! To answer your question, my PS3 is simply connected to the TV via HDMI, and not directly to the surround system at all (no optical/coaxial input to speak of). The surround system is also connected to the TV via HDMI, and the PS3 sound comes from the front two speakers only.

Could someone please answer me another question, having just read What Hi-Fi's superb review of the new Sony STR-D6820 AV receiver, would it be possible (having purchased one of these) to hook up the existing 5 speakers and sub of my current system to this receiver, connect my PS3 to it via HDMI and therefore receive not only surround sound but also the HD formats on my BDs? Would my existing speakers work with this new receiver? (It would be an ideal holdover for me until sometime in the future when I can afford to invest in a new, better suited set of speakers)

Again, thank you!!!

 

[Anonymous]

In that case why are you not connecting your PS3 to your surround system?

As for your second question yes of course you could, but I know some of these surround systems use strange connections. If it does you will need to cut these off and use bare wire. This will affect the reselling of the system.

 

[Liam19]

As I have tried to explain in both above posts, the Panasonic SC-PT450 EB-K DVD surround system does NOT have a digital optical input nor a coaxial input, therefore I CANNOT connect the PlayStation 3 directly to it. It is a ridiculously under-equipped system IMO (especially considering the £250 price - there are cheaper rivals with better connections) - had I known about its lack of digital inputs at the time I would never have bought it! In the end it is my fault!

The Panasonic's speakers are connected to the receiver (DVD player) with bare wire - would this present me with a problem when trying to connect them to an AV receiver such as the Sony? (I've never owned a separate receiver before, so I'm unaware of how the speaker connections look in comparison to those on my system.)

Once again, thank you for replying.

 

[Anonymous]

I mean by HDMI. If you connect your surround system to your TV by HDMI, it suggests it will also have HDMI inputs. If you connect your PS3 to this it carries and audio and visual signal.

And yes you will be able to use bare wire with the 820, no problems.

 

[Liam19]

Sorry, I was going to clarify this in the last post but forgot to - the Panasonic doesn't have HDMI inputs either, only one output (it's a VERY limited system overall, obviously intended to be used by itself only, without being connected to any other sources.)

I'm pretty convinced now that an AV receiver like the Sony STR-DG820 is the way to go - it's only £249.99 at play.com, and it should hopefully solve my current problems whilst also giving me scope for upgrade in the future (e.g. new speakers). I'm now actually quite excited to get my hands on one!

Thanks for your help nonetheless!

 

[Liam19]

Just one more thing - I've just examined a photo of the rear of the Sony STR-DG820, and while it looks like I could get my 5 speakers fitted to it with bare wires, there is a separate socket on the receiver for the subwoofer, whereas my sub is just another bare wire connection like the speakers. That is to say it doesn't look like my current sub would fit into the Sony receiver, because there doesn't appear to be a bare wire 'subwoofer' +/- socket like there is for the speakers.

Any suggestions?

 

[Anonymous]

Aha you have identified your own downfall. The sub you have is passive i.e. it doesn't have it's own amp. The Sony has a line out that only passes a signal along it of when the sub should react. I'm afraid you'll need to purchase an active sub if your getting the 820.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Liam

I was faced with your problem earlier this year, so after finding out what i needed to be able to get surround sound from my PS3 i went and had a look on ebay.

I got myself a Sony STR-DE475 & a set of Sony SA-VE225 5.1 surround speakers( i think these were sold as a system in a box but without a dvd player ) with speaker cable, subwoofer lead, remote and an opitical switcher( 3in/1 out) all for £60 + £15 p&p.

This amp is not full hd( audio via opitical ) but it's a start. From there you can upgrade a bit at a time, till you get what your after.

One word of warning though, home cinema is great fun, but highly addictive, i'm always on the lookout for my next bit of kit.

Happy hunting

Alan

 

[Gerrardasnails]

Liam19:
Just one more thing - I've just examined a photo of the rear of the Sony STR-DG820, and while it looks like I could get my 5 speakers fitted to it with bare wires, there is a separate socket on the receiver for the subwoofer, whereas my sub is just another bare wire connection like the speakers. That is to say it doesn't look like my current sub would fit into the Sony receiver, because there doesn't appear to be a bare wire 'subwoofer' +/- socket like there is for the speakers.

Any suggestions?

If I were you I would stretch a few more quid and get something like this and you will be very happy. These Tannoy speakers will be much better than what you have and you can add the Sony receiver to it for HD audio and an overall much better performance. Total would be not much more than £300. You could also sell your system for say £50 as well.

http://www.richersounds.com/showproduct.php?cda=showproduct&pid=TANN-FX5.1-SIL

 

[Liam19]

OK, I'm now pretty much decided that I'll replace my old Panasonic 'all-in-one' DVD surround system entirely, and replace it with a new AV receiver and speakers, relying on my PS3 for DVD playback (which shouldn't really be a problem for me for the time being).

My problem is deciding what to get! I'm torn between two options at the moment - if anyone can help me decide between the following two, please do!!!

1. The new Onkyo HT-5105S receiver and speaker system (first read about in the latest WHF? issue, pg. 39), which I've found online for £314.99 (http://www.soundandvisiononline.com/moreinfo/index.asp?product_id=16998). This seems like a reasonably promising system to me, as the receiver is allegedly based on the 5-star awarded TX-SR506 model. All I expect from the speakers is for them to be half-decent (for I can always upgrade these later) and at this price, I'm quite tempted by this option. However, it doesn't decode HD audio (although my PS3 should take care of that) it has 5 channels instead of 7 (might be a problem when upgrading), and I'm still quite reluctant to go for this one until I hear the WHF? verdict. Any hope of a review soon please, WHF? people???

OR

2. The new Sony STR-DG820 receiver (received 5 stars in this months' WHF?, page 8), which has HD audio decoding, 7 channels of sound, and is £249.99 at http://www.play.com/Electronics/Electronics/4-/5749543/Sony-STR-DG820-7-1-Channel-Receiver/Product.html. I've also seen the Sony SA-VE155 5.1 speaker package at my local Sony Centre for £99.99 - admittedly I have no idea how good (or bad) these are, but the truth is I really don't want to shell out more on speakers at this particular point. If anyone else can suggest a half-decent sounding 5.1 speaker system for anywhere near this money (however unlikely) PLEASE make yourselves heard!!!

Ultimately, I'm pulled towards the Onkyo because of the company's track record and the convenience of a receiver and speakers together for £314.99. But the Sony's glowing review, better specs and smarter looks pull me in the other direction too!

Thanks for the help so far, now KEEP IT COMING!!!

 

[Anonymous]

I listened to the Sony HT-SS1300 5.1 system in the Sony shop and it sounded excellant, better than the Dav-is10, it also has 3 HDMI ports to run everything you need.

 

[Anonymous]

It depends:

If you are going to upgrade the speakers at a later stage, I'd go for the Sony system. (Those speakers are not good enough for the Sony 820 and you won't find any for £100 that are).

If you are going to keep it for a long time, I'd go for the Onkyo. (No HD audio but it will be a nicely rounded system)

 

[Liam19]

Octopo:

It depends:

If you are going to upgrade the speakers at a later stage, I'd go for the Sony system. (Those speakers are not good enough for the Sony 820 and you won't find any for £100 that are).

If you are going to keep it for a long time, I'd go for the Onkyo. (No HD audio but it will be a nicely rounded system)

Thanks for the advice Octopo, that's exactly what I was thinking too! I knew the Sony speakers would be sub-par, but truth is I just don't have the money at present to spend a significant amount on speakers. While I don't expect that the Onkyo's speakers will be of the best quality either, I hope they'll satisfy me since I'm not particularly demanding and am relatively easily pleased!

Just to clarify one thing though, regarding the Onkyo's lack of HD audio decoding - since I have a PS3 with the latest firmware (so it can decode HD audio formats onboard), I should be able to get HD audio through the Onkyo receiver when the PS3 sends these decoded signals in Linear PCM via HDMI, yes? Am I correct in assuming this?

If this question can be answered by someone, then I am sold on the Onkyo system. (I'll just hope that WHF? doesn't deem it terrible when it finally gets reviewed!)

Thanks again!

 

[Anonymous]

No because the Onkyo cannot accept LPCM via HDMI. You would not be able to get HD audio from your PS3 with the Onkyo.

 

[Liam19]

Octopo:No because the Onkyo cannot accept LPCM via HDMI. You would not be able to get HD audio from your PS3 with the Onkyo.

Ahhhh. (scratches head).

Well, if the Onkyo receiver cannot accept Linear PCM at all via HDMI, how would I get the sound from my PS3 to the receiver in the first place? I find it hard to believe that the Onkyo cannot accept such a signal AT ALL, when I currently get sound just fine when I send uncompressed LPCM to my TELEVISION's crappy speakers!

I just this minute tested Casino Royale on Blu-ray, with 5.1 Uncompressed PCM switched on, and I got sound through my TV's basic speakers. I just tested Batman Begins on Blu-ray, with 5.1 DTS-HD switched on, and I also got sound through my TV's basic speakers. So if I send these same signals to the Onkyo via HDMI, then through to the TV, they won't be accepted AT ALL?

I was under the impression that, since the Onkyo isn't being asked to decode the HD audio itself (because the PS3 has already done it), then it could accept the signal and output it. I have read elsewhere (at another site) that because it doesn't decode the signal itself, the receiver doesn't differentiate between different types of audio format, and just displays 'Multichannel'.

Now I'm confused again! Oh dear!

 

[Anonymous]

No your quite right what I said was the you won't be able to get HD sound. It just can't accept (like you say) LPCM and decode it to HD sound.

 

[Anonymous]

Saying that if you don't get a HD decoding receiver you will get better sound quality connecting an optical cord from your PS3 to the Onkyo for sound and just use the HDMI for picture.

 

[Liam19]

Octopo:No your quite right what I said was the you won't be able to get HD sound. It just can't accept (like you say) LPCM and decode it to HD sound.

So the Onkyo receiver has to decode the signal itself AS WELL as the PlayStation 3??? After the PS3 has already decoded the signal itself, and the HD signal has been transported to the receiver as LPCM via HDMI, the Onkyo must be equipped to decode HD audio itself also in order to process the signal and output it as HD sound??? Is this correct???

I mean this as a genuine question, because my first impression was that once a HD audio signal was decoded, then it could simply be transported as LPCM via HDMI to a receiver and be output without any FURTHER decoding. If I am incorrect in this assumption, then I stand corrected on this matter.

 

[Anonymous]

No the PS3 does not decode the audio. Whilst alot of DVD/BD players today do decode on board the PS3 doesn't. Your onkyo will simply convert the LPCM signal to PCM instead of decoding the LPCM.

 

[professorhat]

Hang on here - the PS3 does decode all the HD formats. Let me look at this post and get my head round it and I'll post a reply.

 

[Anonymous]

Prof, I know, I'm trying to find a way round this without getting into bitstream stuff you're quite welcome to take over.

 

[Liam19]

Octopo:No the PS3 does not decode the audio. Whilst alot of DVD/BD players today do decode on board the PS3 doesn't. Your onkyo will simply convert the LPCM signal to PCM instead of decoding the LPCM.

I hate to sound like I'm arguing with you here, but I just want to finally understand this. Your above statement seems entirely contrary to several statements I've read by others (at this site and others), some of which I will now lead you to, and quote from:-

http://whathifi.com/forums/post/68133.aspx

EXCERPT FROM ABOVE -

"To sum up though, basically before 2.30 the PS3 could output LPCM Blu-ray tracks as LPCM and it could output TrueHD Blu-ray tracks as LPCM, but with dts-MA Blu-ray tracks it could only output them as dts core (or decode the dts core to LPCM and output that). With the latest update it can decode and output all three types of lossless Blu-ray soundtrack as LPCM to an appropriate HDMI receiver, which means PS3 owners can now enjoy lossless audio from Fox Blu-rays (which tended to only have dts-MA as the lossless option), and a handful of other Blu-rays that had dts-MA but no LPCM or TrueHD."

Another quote, from the same thread as above, by WHF? Consulting Editor Andrew Everard:-

"No, stick to LPCM - the PS3 will decode it and output it as LPCM to the Onkyo." (post 68044)

Finally, again from the same thread:-

"The PS3 cannot output the HD audio formats (incl. DTS- HD MA) via bitstream.

Instead, the PS3 decodes the audio signals internally and then transmits these decoded signals to the receiver as a Linear PCM feed...

...on provision that you have connected your PS3 to your receiver via HDMI (as you cannot transmit Linear PCM over optical) and that your receiver can accept a decoded Linear PCM signal via HDMI.

In an ideal world (in some people's opinion), the PS3 would pass the native untouched HD signal to the receiver where it could be decoded and subsequently light up all of the pretty HD lights on the receiver. However, the PS3 is unable to do this." (post 68092)

Surely you can understand the confusion caused by the contradiction between what you've just told me, and what these people have previously stated?

Thank you very much for your time on this, by the way, Octopo, and please understand I'm not trying to be nasty, just trying to properly understand this issue. Sooooooo confused!!!

 

[Anonymous]

Alright, the PS3 decodes the audio and sends it out ONLY via LCPM over HDMI. The Onkyo cannot accept this HD audio. If the PS3 had analogue output and the ÿOnkyo had analogue input you would be able to accept the signal via that. But s it stands with this system you will not be able to get HD audio. If you want HD audio you will have to lokk at more expensive receivers I'm afraid.

BTW: I'm sorry if you feel misinformed, it's just that you started out seeming like you were simply asking for a fix, I was trying to keep it as simple as possible, in getting the system in your budget to work.ÿ