Sub and Rear Heights/Atmos

[rocketrazor]

Hi all,

I'm after some help again *biggrin*

Looking at increasing my setup to include a Sub and either rear height speakers or Atmos (though attached to wall not ceiling)

So some questions.......

Sub

Bear with me on this, all the different frequency settings and MHZ just give me a headache and I don't understand it to be honest. Happy for someone to explain though!

I'm after a sub that just fills the gap on what I'm missing, i'm not looking for something that will shake my walls, or wake up my daughter. I have a lounge/dinner and my daughter sleeps above the dinning room so I need to keep the noise down a little. You can already hear my floorstanding speakers in her room so it's important I don't make things louder, just fill the parts I'm missing. Price around £750 I guess.

Any ideas what I should be looking at, was thinking the SVS SB-2000 but not sure if it's too much for what I need. Looked at the BK P12-300SB. When I say looked I mean online, not a demo. Also down facing or forward facing?

Existing Floor Standing Speakers are the Mission M74:

Freq. Response (+/- 3dB) 44Hz - 20kHz

LF Response (-6dB) 38Hz

Sensitivity SPL/M@ 2.83v 91dB.

Rear Height/Atmos

I can't put speakers in the ceiling, its just a straight no way! So i'm thinking of putting something smart on the wall behind me just below the ceiling. Not a clue what to look for here. Any thoughts on something to add that extra surround sound. Prob upto £250 here. Also am I better off setting them to Atmos or Rear Height? I'm guessing Rear Height will add for all films while Atmos would just give me Atmos films?

Cheers in advance

Rocket

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

No input to offer on subs, sorry.

As for Atmos on-walls:

1. If you can't put in in-ceiling speakers, you're probably best off mounting your new speakers high up on the walls, but on the sides, halfway between the screen and your sofa. Rears plus rear heights (or fronts plus front heights) won't sound anywhere near as good.

2. Try to get a pair like the Klipsch RP-140SA models, which can be hung on nails with the baffles angled downwards rowards the MLP.

3. If you can't afford or can't get or don't like or can't hide the wires for the Klipsch units, think about what you could do with some very small surround speakers like the Bose 161 models and some tilt-able, swivel-able wall brackets. Also look at Bluetooth speakers if you can't run or can't hide the speaker cables (although you'll still have mains cables to deal with). Plan B would be to chisel some shallow grooves in your plaster, use ribbon cables, and Polyfilla them in. Hide them under the carpet or run them along the skirting boards.

4. Whilst, personally, I agree your front L/C/R speakers should be the same brand and model series, I don't buy into the salesmens' line that ALL the speakers should match. Ideal, yes. Vital, no. Surround speakers are for effect more than substance, after all.

5. When playing non Atmos 5.1 or 7.1 BDs or DVDs, the surround channels are for around-the-room, not overhead, sound. With a 5.1 setup your surrounds should be left and right of, and slightly behind, your MLP, not way behind. When you move up to 7.1 you add the way-behind rears. You can, of course, set the 5.1 surrounds further back than the ideal to start with, but that's up to you.

6. When you add Atmos speakers you should only get 5.1 or 7.1 from 5.1/7.1 sources. Some receivers will deliver a kind of pseudo, simulated, Atmos, however. I'm not sure how your receiver can be set up to deal with Atmos or non-Atmos sources. You would have to experiment I'm afraid.

 

[davidf]

I'd only really recommend downward firing subs on concrete floors. If there's no choice, stick a nice thick slab underneath it.

 

[Samd]

If you set the 'high wall speakers' as heights, then you are OK for Atmos and I think all (?) AVRs with Atmos enabled have Dolby Surround Upmixer which when selected on non-Atmos sources will make use of all speakers.

 

[Series1boy]

If you set the 'high wall speakers' as heights, then you are OK for Atmos and I think all (?) AVRs with Atmos enabled have Dolby Surround Upmixer which when selected on non-Atmos sources will make use of all speakers.

correct

 

[rocketrazor]

No input to offer on subs, sorry.

As for Atmos on-walls:

1. If you can't put in in-ceiling speakers, you're probably best off mounting your new speakers high up on the walls, but on the sides, halfway between the screen and your sofa. Rears plus rear heights (or fronts plus front heights) won't sound anywhere near as good.

2. Try to get a pair like the Klipsch RP-140SA models, which can be hung on nails with the baffles angled downwards rowards the MLP.

3. If you can't afford or can't get or don't like or can't hide the wires for the Klipsch units, think about what you could do with some very small surround speakers like the Bose 161 models and some tilt-able, swivel-able wall brackets. Also look at Bluetooth speakers if you can't run or can't hide the speaker cables (although you'll still have mains cables to deal with). Plan B would be to chisel some shallow grooves in your plaster, use ribbon cables, and Polyfilla them in. Hide them under the carpet or run them along the skirting boards.

4. Whilst, personally, I agree your front L/C/R speakers should be the same brand and model series, I don't buy into the salesmens' line that ALL the speakers should match. Ideal, yes. Vital, no. Surround speakers are for effect more than substance, after all.

5. When playing non Atmos 5.1 or 7.1 BDs or DVDs, the surround channels are for around-the-room, not overhead, sound. With a 5.1 setup your surrounds should be left and right of, and slightly behind, your MLP, not way behind. When you move up to 7.1 you add the way-behind rears. You can, of course, set the 5.1 surrounds further back than the ideal to start with, but that's up to you.

6. When you add Atmos speakers you should only get 5.1 or 7.1 from 5.1/7.1 sources. Some receivers will deliver a kind of pseudo, simulated, Atmos, however. I'm not sure how your receiver can be set up to deal with Atmos or non-Atmos sources. You would have to experiment I'm afraid.

Cheers, theres a lot to take in there so I'll have a proper read over the weekend, Ta

 

[rocketrazor]

I'd only really recommend downward firing subs on concrete floors. If there's no choice, stick a nice thick slab underneath it.

So that would rule out the SVS then which is front firing? I'm not sure the better half will let me have a slab under the sub in the lounge and I have carpets unfortunately. For that reason I thought forward firing might be better? Ta

 

[rocketrazor]

If you set the 'high wall speakers' as heights, then you are OK for Atmos and I think all (?) AVRs with Atmos enabled have Dolby Surround Upmixer which when selected on non-Atmos sources will make use of all speakers.

correct

So heights would take the Atmos effect naturally if not set to Atmos? Appericate I'll have to use the upmixing for other films which is why id probably stick to an Atmos configuration if it worked. Not sure about using Upmixing to be honest. Ta

 

[bigboss]

I'd only really recommend downward firing subs on concrete floors. If there's no choice, stick a nice thick slab underneath it.

So that would rule out the SVS then which is front firing? I'm not sure the better half will let me have a slab under the sub in the lounge and I have carpets unfortunately.  For that reason I thought forward firing might be better? Ta

You've misunderstood David. What he means is that downfiring subs are only suitable for concrete floors (because you mentioned the downfiring BK sub in your OP).

 

[newlash09]

Whales communicate hundreds of miles way in deep oceans as they transmit in the 5 Hz region. In essence the deeper your sub goes, the farther it will travel through walls and all. So if you don't want to disturb your daughter , then maybe better to stop at a sub that only does 40 Hz at max.
Most of the normal subs made by normal audio companies like qacoustics, Dali or monitor audio will be enough here, and will also give you a sizable saving in the process. And not mention they have better WAF. The specialist companies go deeper but are more expensive and uglier. Just my 2cents...

 

[newlash09]

You could buy a pair of qacoustics q7000 lri speakers and they come with a mounting base. So you basically drill two screws into your rear wall or ceiling and hang them on that. Their base has a infinite swivel mount, so you could try different angles till you are satisfied. Add a 7070 sub to the mix and you are all done in 500 to 600 pounds.

That marantz sr7011 in your signature is a really capable avr. IAM not an expert at positions and still have to experiment with my own setup. Buy from what I've read, it is recommended to keep all your 5 speakers at ear height. And then mount .2 for Atmos. That Marant can still use them in pseudo Atmos in non Atmos discs too.

 

[bigboss]

So if you don't want to disturb your daughter , then maybe better to stop at a sub that only does 40 Hz at max.

There's no point in going for a sub that stops at higher frequency. You can always turn the volume down. My 3 year old sleeps directly above the lounge too, where my home cinema is. Never causes issues.

 

[davidf]

I don't find it's the sub frequencies that travel - it's the midrange frequencies. Low bass might produce a little rumble now and again, but nothing really intrusive - put Duel on though and you'll be disturbing everyone around you with the midrange roar of the long distance truck.

 

[newlash09]

For correcting me. Always thought that low bass with its very long wave length travelled the most. If it's the mid range that's troublesome, then off course the deeper sub will be better.

 

[rocketrazor]

Cheers all. Appears I had got confussed, not difficulty to do unfortunately!

So it's forward firing for me then, just need to decide on one. I'm partial to a BK at the moment, good reviews and they look nice too. There factory is only 15 mins from me so Im going to see if a home demo is poss in the next few weeks

Cheers

 

[davidf]

For correcting me. Always thought that low bass with its very long wave length travelled the most. If it's the mid range that's troublesome, then off course the deeper sub will be better.

I'm not necessarily saying a sub that concentrates on stupidly low notes is better, as that would normally just sound like rumble, and what would make it through to next door or another room is variable depending on wall/floor construction etc - personally I like subs with punch, as it's a more natural experience.

 

[rocketrazor]

so i've been away studying for a while but exam done and passed so I'm back on the Sub hunt. Still partial to a BK and still yet to phone them but I can't seem to make my mind up between the BX-XXLS-400 and the P12-300SB. The technical details on the website look identical but for an auto shut off on the P12 and a different size watt and it is £80 cheaper and 6 yrs newer. Does anyone have any idea which is better? The the older 400 worth the extra £80 or do I go for the newer 300SB and save £80?

Ta

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

What are the watts? (Sorry).

In a normal size room I very much doubt you'll need the full watts of either. The auto shut-off will cut down your electricity bill a tad and should prolong the life of the electronics. Hopefully the newer design has better sound, but what does "better sound" really mean for a sub anyway? Tauter? Punchier? Insert WHF journo cliche'd buzzwords here...

 

[jonathanRD]

so i've been away studying for a while but exam done and passed so I'm back on the Sub hunt. Still partial to a BK and still yet to phone them but I can't seem to make my mind up between the BX-XXLS-400 and the P12-300SB. The technical details on the website look identical but for an auto shut off on the P12 and a different size watt and it is £80 cheaper and 6 yrs newer. Does anyone have any idea which is better? The the older 400 worth the extra £80 or do I go for the newer 300SB and save £80?

Ta

Really simple answer here - call BK!

Lots of posters, including myself have found them very helpful when you call them. They should give you some good advice on what would be best for you.

 

[rocketrazor]

Finally got round to phoning BK today, ordered the P12-300SB-DF. They advised that the carpet should not have any impact and as I have a concreate floor and a young child the DF would suit me better. So I ordered just now. Just gotta wait for it to be delivered! *yahoo*

 

[rocketrazor]

So that I don't waste time when I get the sub what's the best way to set it up?

on the amp do I use both sub output 1 & 2?. Also do I just let the amp sort it all out with the microphone setup? Appears the cable I get with the amp is a pair of wires, not a single cable.

ta in advance

 

[rocketrazor]

Reading the sub manual i think I use the right hand mono input as it appears the amp has only a single output in the amp, I don't appear to see a dual output?

 

[rocketrazor]

my sub will come with a 5m phono to phono cable. because the sub will be at the back of the room and the amp the front it wont be long enough to go round the door frame neat and tidy. I therefore have a choice to either unplug it after use or purchase a new cable. Is this the right cable?

https://www.hificables.co.uk/product/6195/fisual-pro-install-series-phono-rca-cable-10m/

I just want to be sure before ordering as never had a sub so no idea what sort of cables it uses. I think its the right one, just would like someone to clarify before I order

Ta

 

[rocketrazor]

or this

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cable-Mountain-Quality-Plated-Phono-Dark-Blue/dp/B0012WXCGE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1510757977&sr=8-1&keywords=phono+to+phono+10m

even cheaper *biggrin*

 

[Blacksabbath25]

So that I don't waste time when I get the sub what's the best way to set it up?

on the amp do I use both sub output 1 & 2?. Also do I just let the amp sort it all out with the microphone setup? Appears the cable I get with the amp is a pair of wires, not a single cable.

ta in advance

just use input 1 some AVs have 2 inputs so you can have 2 subwoofers connected to the Av

before ordering the phono to phono lead you need to find out first were the subwoofer works best in the room with the cable you have got before ordering the 10m cable so you know that your getting the right bass response .

there some great videos on YouTube about subwoofer placement and how to properly set the subwoofer up . Type audioholics on YouTube this will help you. .