Streamer Without DAC

[Philim]

The Auralic Aries Mini looks interesting .... even though it comes with a DAC .... and at only £375 may be worth a punt....

The streamer only components hit the £1k mark and I'm not sure why ... will read some reviews.

Second hand the auralic Aries with best spec and PSU comes for 800-900. Auralic are constantly developing their product with software support and the UI is now very stable and intuitive. It is also very good sound wise.

 

[GustavAP]

it's as simple as pushing a HiFiBerry Digi onto a Pi and putting the required software (e.g. RuneAudio) onto an SD card and plugging it. Ethernet to the Pi and it's on your network (you can add a wifi dongle if you like). Keyboard and monitor are not needed, because you access it through a web interface on computer, phone or tablet. Apps are also available if preferred.

The latest Pi (3) even has an internal Wifi card which I use for the moment before I can move my router and easily make use of the ethernet, I have had no problems with files up to 24/96 on Wifi. My best spent 45 euro's.

I was a bit reluctant to go the Pi route, wrongly thinking that it wouldn't really be a proper streamer. Also, though I qualified as an electronics service engineer, I know very little about computers and nothing about programming - so needed it to be simple.

I've got nothing but praise for the brains behind RuneAudio. They've done all the programming which they did to satisfy their own needs for a high quality audio streamer. Their website tells you all you need to know about downloading and flashing to the SD card. (And their forum answered my couple of questions in record time!)

I've installed the Pi out of sight within my cabinet, so didn't even bother buying a case for it. I'm using the 2.5 Amp switched mode PSU but may experiment with a linear PSU, which some say improves the bass in particular. (quality of the PSU even more critical when the 5v. supplies both the Pi and a DAC)

I had been considering the £700 Cambridge CXN. I can't imagine its control app being better than RuneAudio on a tablet - would expect the CXN sound to be better than my Pi / O-DAC (though wouldn't bet on that)

I have also been intrigued to try out a linear PSU, although I dont really understand where I would start. Could you point me in any direction?

 

[andyjm]

Thanks, Tino - good point regarding software updates ....

It just seems a waste of a DAC in a streamer if one has no intention of using it ....

It would probably cost more to build two separate models and maintain the inventory than just to put a DAC chip in every product - they only cost a few $.

Could be a good marketing ploy - just disable the DAC in software and charge more for the 'pure audiophile' model.

I notice Telsa are now selling the model S with different battery capacities at different prices, but the same battery. Software selectable capacity. - I believe the hardware for the autopilot driving system is also included in every vehicle but you have to pay extra to have it enabled.

 

[Gray]

x

 

[Gray]

Hi Gustav,

You've probably seen that they recommend a PSU of at least 2.4 amps for the model 3 Pi, having found that much to be necessary for those that fully load up all 4 USB sockets.

But assuming any HDD drive you connect by USB to the Pi is self-powered and that your USB powered DAC has a low power requirement (mine, for example, only needs 50mA) then you could probably get away with a 2A (or less) supply (though there's no problem with having too much current available)

What we need is a supply with as little ripple and noise as possible. For this reason the ultimate DC supply is from a battery. Someone though, said that his sound was worse on battery power. If he had 5v. with adequate current, I can't see how the sound could be worse than with any mains derived supplies.

As for pointing you in the direction of a good linear supply, I can only suggest that you look at what's available on the internet as prices, as always, range from reasonable to silly.

On the other hand, if you (or someone you know) is OK with a soldering iron, a kit could be a good option and having built a few Velleman kits, I can recommend them. They even come with soldering tips and component identification for beginners. Have a look at their K7203 kit, available for under £30 but allow another £20-£30 for the necessary toroidal mains transformer. The output voltage range (and current capability) depends on the transformer you use (one with 9v secondaries, connected in phase and in parallel, would be suitable) and is set by screwdriver ajustment of a trimmer on the PCB (with the aid of an accurate voltmeter, set 5v before connection to the Pi)

The transformer and PCB could be fitted in the same enclosure as the Pi.

In view of comments of minimal sound quality differences, you need to decide whether or not to bother with extra expense. But who knows?, we might find a massive difference.

Either way, I agree with you that the Pi itself is certainly money well spent.

Good luck.

 

[tino]

The Auralic Aries Mini looks interesting .... even though it comes with a DAC .... and at only £375 may be worth a punt....

The streamer only components hit the £1k mark and I'm not sure why ... will read some reviews.

Expensive streamers usually drop very quickly in value. For example a NAD M50, worth about £2000 can be had for about £500 now after a couple of years. The Auralic Aries Mini looks like a great piece of kit. It has two digital outputs (Coaxial and Toslink) and you can fit an internal hard drive... no faffing about with NAS drives. It also supports Bluetooth streaming from a mobile device.

 

[GustavAP]

Hi Gustav,

You've probably seen that they recommend a PSU of at least 2.4 amps for the model 3 Pi, having found that much to be necessary for those that fully load up all 4 USB sockets.

But assuming any HDD drive you connect by USB to the Pi is self-powered and that your USB powered DAC has a low power requirement (mine, for example, only needs 50mA) then you could probably get away with a 2A (or less) supply (though there's no problem with having too much current available)

What we need is a supply with as little ripple and noise as possible. For this reason the ultimate DC supply is from a battery. Someone though, said that his sound was worse on battery power. If he had 5v. with adequate current, I can't see how the sound could be worse than with any mains derived supplies.

As for pointing you in the direction of a good linear supply, I can only suggest that you look at what's available on the internet as prices, as always, range from reasonable to silly.

On the other hand, if you (or someone you know) is OK with a soldering iron, a kit could be a good option and having built a few Velleman kits, I can recommend them. They even come with soldering tips and component identification for beginners. Have a look at their K7203 kit, available for under £30 but allow another £20-£30 for the necessary toroidal mains transformer. The output voltage range (and current capability) depends on the transformer you use (one with 9v secondaries, connected in phase and in parallel, would be suitable) and is set by screwdriver ajustment of a trimmer on the PCB (with the aid of an accurate voltmeter, set 5v before connection to the Pi)

The transformer and PCB could be fitted in the same enclosure as the Pi.

In view of comments of minimal sound quality differences, you need to decide whether or not to bother with extra expense. But who knows?, we might find a massive difference.

Either way, I agree with you that the Pi itself is certainly money well spent.

Good luck.

Thanks Grey. If I dabble a bit in computers and linux, the electrical side of things of anything is beyond me.

I have tried a dedicated powered USB hub to feed my DAC to see if it made any difference, but I could not hear any audible difference in my setup. So I have no real reason to change anything beside for the fun of it.

I actually thought the Pi + Rune would provide me with a bit of a weekned project when I bought it, luckely (and thus sadly) it didn't. For me it was plug and play and probably took 7 minutes to install.

 

[andyjm]

Hi Gustav,

You've probably seen that they recommend a PSU of at least 2.4 amps for the model 3 Pi, having found that much to be necessary for those that fully load up all 4 USB sockets.

But assuming any HDD drive you connect by USB to the Pi is self-powered and that your USB powered DAC has a low power requirement (mine, for example, only needs 50mA) then you could probably get away with a 2A (or less) supply (though there's no problem with having too much current available)

What we need is a supply with as little ripple and noise as possible. For this reason the ultimate DC supply is from a battery. Someone though, said that his sound was worse on battery power. If he had 5v. with adequate current, I can't see how the sound could be worse than with any mains derived supplies.

As for pointing you in the direction of a good linear supply, I can only suggest that you look at what's available on the internet as prices, as always, range from reasonable to silly.

On the other hand, if you (or someone you know) is OK with a soldering iron, a kit could be a good option and having built a few Velleman kits, I can recommend them. They even come with soldering tips and component identification for beginners. Have a look at their K7203 kit, available for under £30 but allow another £20-£30 for the necessary toroidal mains transformer. The output voltage range (and current capability) depends on the transformer you use (one with 9v secondaries, connected in phase and in parallel, would be suitable) and is set by screwdriver ajustment of a trimmer on the PCB (with the aid of an accurate voltmeter, set 5v before connection to the Pi)

The transformer and PCB could be fitted in the same enclosure as the Pi.

In view of comments of minimal sound quality differences, you need to decide whether or not to bother with extra expense. But who knows?, we might find a massive difference.

Either way, I agree with you that the Pi itself is certainly money well spent.

Good luck.

While having a decent supply is the bedrock of a good system, building a linear supply for a device crammed full of digital devices switching away merrily is a bit like fitting a turned wood oil filler cap to your Ferrarri. You could do it, and it would work, but what's the point.

The assumption is that switching is bad, linear is good. There are good switchers and bad switchers and good linear supplies and bad linear supplies. Of much greater concern should be what happens to the supply when it gets to the board, and how the voltage reference is derived for the DAC chip.

Back in the days when Squeezebox were still around, there was an industry building linear supplies - even though the Squeezebox products used mutliple onboard switching DC to DC converters to generate the multiple supply voltages required. Never made any sense then, and still doesn't now.

 

[fu140]

A Linn Majik DS has an optical out as well as analogue outs so you can by-pass the internal DAC. You can probably pick up an early model second hand for £500-1000. User interface is pretty simple through third party apps on phone/tablet.

 

[Gray]

Hi Gustav,

You've probably seen that they recommend a PSU of at least 2.4 amps for the model 3 Pi, having found that much to be necessary for those that fully load up all 4 USB sockets.

But assuming any HDD drive you connect by USB to the Pi is self-powered and that your USB powered DAC has a low power requirement (mine, for example, only needs 50mA) then you could probably get away with a 2A (or less) supply (though there's no problem with having too much current available)

What we need is a supply with as little ripple and noise as possible. For this reason the ultimate DC supply is from a battery. Someone though, said that his sound was worse on battery power. If he had 5v. with adequate current, I can't see how the sound could be worse than with any mains derived supplies.

As for pointing you in the direction of a good linear supply, I can only suggest that you look at what's available on the internet as prices, as always, range from reasonable to silly.

On the other hand, if you (or someone you know) is OK with a soldering iron, a kit could be a good option and having built a few Velleman kits, I can recommend them. They even come with soldering tips and component identification for beginners. Have a look at their K7203 kit, available for under £30 but allow another £20-£30 for the necessary toroidal mains transformer. The output voltage range (and current capability) depends on the transformer you use (one with 9v secondaries, connected in phase and in parallel, would be suitable) and is set by screwdriver ajustment of a trimmer on the PCB (with the aid of an accurate voltmeter, set 5v before connection to the Pi)

The transformer and PCB could be fitted in the same enclosure as the Pi.

In view of comments of minimal sound quality differences, you need to decide whether or not to bother with extra expense. But who knows?, we might find a massive difference.

Either way, I agree with you that the Pi itself is certainly money well spent.

Good luck.

While having a decent supply is the bedrock of a good system, building a linear supply for a device crammed full of digital devices switching away merrily is a bit like fitting a turned wood oil filler cap to your Ferrarri. You could do it, and it would work, but what's the point.

The assumption is that switching is bad, linear is good. There are good switchers and bad switchers and good linear supplies and bad linear supplies. Of much greater concern should be what happens to the supply when it gets to the board, and how the voltage reference is derived for the DAC chip.

Back in the days when Squeezebox were still around, there was an industry building linear supplies - even though the Squeezebox products used mutliple onboard switching DC to DC converters to generate the multiple supply voltages required. Never made any sense then, and still doesn't now.

My reply to Gustav was in response to his potential interest in linear power supplies after he said he might like to experiment. You will have noticed, I hope, that nowhere did I say that any particular type of PSU would improve the sound of streamers, even if others have reported that an improvement is certainly what they've experienced. Some say they prefer switched to linear. As you say, there are good and bad power supplies which explains more.

Then there's the (often illogical) differences people say they hear. We can only doubt but not deny.

How is it, for example, that a person could hear a detrimental effect (all else being equal) when using a battery DC source compared to a mains derived DC source to power his Pi streamer? Not possible we would say. Mysteries that science cannot explain.

 

[andyjm]

Then there's the (often illogical) differences people say they hear. We can only doubt but not deny.

How is it, for example, that a person could hear a detrimental effect (all else being equal) when using a battery DC source compared to a mains derived DC source to power his Pi streamer? Not possible we would say. Mysteries that science cannot explain.

You have postulated a situation where an extremely flawed measuring instrument (a human) known for all sorts of biases and lack of objective comparison hears a detrimental effect by fitting a chemical battery power supply in place of a mains supply.

It is a complete mystery how this could happen - what could possibly be going on here?

 

[Gray]

Then there's the (often illogical) differences people say they hear. We can only doubt but not deny.

How is it, for example, that a person could hear a detrimental effect (all else being equal) when using a battery DC source compared to a mains derived DC source to power his Pi streamer? Not possible we would say. Mysteries that science cannot explain.

You have postulated a situation where an extremely flawed measuring instrument (a human) known for all sorts of biases and lack of objective comparison hears a detrimental effect by fitting a chemical battery power supply in place of a mains supply.

It is a complete mystery how this could happen - what could possibly be going on here?

The 'flawed measuring instrument' wasn't measuring anything, neither was he being objective. Indeed it was me that was being objective by somehow wondering how the smoothest DC supply (chemical or not) could be subjectively inferior. Anyway, that's enough of going round in circles, after all I've always got 'Strapped for cash' for that (though to his credit, he never uses sarcasm)

 

[andyjm]

Then there's the (often illogical) differences people say they hear. We can only doubt but not deny.

How is it, for example, that a person could hear a detrimental effect (all else being equal) when using a battery DC source compared to a mains derived DC source to power his Pi streamer? Not possible we would say. Mysteries that science cannot explain.

You have postulated a situation where an extremely flawed measuring instrument (a human) known for all sorts of biases and lack of objective comparison hears a detrimental effect by fitting a chemical battery power supply in place of a mains supply.

It is a complete mystery how this could happen - what could possibly be going on here?

The 'flawed measuring instrument' wasn't measuring anything, neither was he being objective. Indeed it was me that was being objective by somehow wondering how the smoothest DC supply (chemical or not) could be subjectively inferior. Anyway, that's enough of going round in circles, after all I've always got 'Strapped for cash' for that (though to his credit, he never uses sarcasm)

I am afraid you've lost me. Were you being ironic in your original post? If so, apologies for being a bit slow on the uptake.

An interesting point for the keen is that not all batteries are made equal, nor are they noise free. There are studies on the net about the level of noise from different chemisty batteries - lead/acid vs LiFe vs NiCd and so on...

Perhaps a whole new field for us to argue about - my battery is better than your battery..

I do recall a pre-amp that used a battery. When it was on standby it charged the battery, when it was switched on, it disconnected completely from the mains supply and ran on battery power only. Makes a damn sight more sense than 'magic mains cables'

Edit - seems that Vinnie Rossi makes battery powered amps that charge up off the mains.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

The trichord dino never connected power supply works on the same principle...the mains power charges up some capacitors/cells or whatever in a separate box then the power from them is transferred on to the trichord dino mk3 phono stage itself without it ever being connected electronically to the mains supply,and it does make a subtle sonic difference.