Spendor A5 Fault?

[admin_exported]

I have Cyrus CD8se with Cyrus 8 power with Pvs-2 pre amp.

When playing for example Pink floyd the wall with volume at approx 10.o'clock which is not over loud. The spendor speaker sounds as if the base cone is hitting a stop. Why should this be as the speaker should be ok with the power of this amp. Has anyone else experienced this or is it a fault with my A5s

 

[MikeToll]

Seems to me that unless the amp is clipping then you may well have a problem with the speaker(s). One or both speakers doing it? Why not contact Spendor?

 

[hificonfused]

Can not put up with spendors any longer. Am going replace them with something that can cope with volume. Was thinking of b & w cm10 or kefs Anyone tried with cyrus kit. Was thinking ultimately to run cyrus signature 200 power amps.

 

[MikeToll]

Why not email Spendor? I have always found them very helpful. My Spendors will happily go so loud it is difficult to stay in the room without any clipping or distortion or any other problems.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

alot of modern amps are attenuated pretty poorly and deliver all their power around the 9 o clock position on the dial,

whats the power rating on your amp combo - you sure you're not playing your music too loud?

 

[davedotco]

I have Cyrus CD8se with Cyrus 8 power with Pvs-2 pre amp.

When playing for example Pink floyd the wall with volume at approx 10.o'clock which is not over loud. The spendor speaker sounds as if the base cone is hitting a stop. Why should this be as the speaker should be ok with the power of this amp. Has anyone else experienced this or is it a fault with my A5s

You are running out of power, simple as that.

Either the amps are clipping or they are failing to control the bass drivers at at low frequencies, probably both.

The power amp is way out of its depth, hardly surprising given the speakers you are trying to drive with it. The speakers are the best part of your system, by a fair margin, they deserve much better amplification.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

I have Cyrus CD8se with Cyrus 8 power with Pvs-2 pre amp.

When playing for example Pink floyd the wall with volume at approx 10.o'clock which is not over loud. The spendor speaker sounds as if the base cone is hitting a stop. Why should this be as the speaker should be ok with the power of this amp. Has anyone else experienced this or is it a fault with my A5s

You are running out of power, simple as that.

Either the amps are clipping or they are failing to control the bass drivers at at low frequencies, probably both.

The power amp is way out of its depth, hardly surprising given the speakers you are trying to drive with it. The speakers are the best part of your system, by a fair margin, they deserve much better amplification.

as much as it burns me to do so, I have to agree with you davedotco,

he needs more 'real' power.

 

[davedotco]

I have Cyrus CD8se with Cyrus 8 power with Pvs-2 pre amp.

When playing for example Pink floyd the wall with volume at approx 10.o'clock which is not over loud. The spendor speaker sounds as if the base cone is hitting a stop. Why should this be as the speaker should be ok with the power of this amp. Has anyone else experienced this or is it a fault with my A5s

You are running out of power, simple as that.

Either the amps are clipping or they are failing to control the bass drivers at at low frequencies, probably both.

The power amp is way out of its depth, hardly surprising given the speakers you are trying to drive with it. The speakers are the best part of your system, by a fair margin, they deserve much better amplification.

as much as it burns me to do so, I have to agree with you davedotco,

he needs more 'real' power.

The cheques in the post....... 8)

 

[hifikrazy]

Cyrus 8 power isn't exactly a wimpy amp... little but not wimpy. I cannot imagine that it is running out of steam to the point that it clips while the volume is only at 10 o'clock while driving a speaker with nominal impedance of 8 ohms. As some others have suggested here, I would check with Spendor first.

 

[davedotco]

Cyrus 8 power isn't exactly a wimpy amp... little but not wimpy. I cannot imagine that it is running out of steam to the point that it clips while the volume is only at 10 o'clock while driving a speaker with nominal impedance of 8 ohms. As some others have suggested here, I would check with Spendor first.

The Cyrus 8, in standard form, has a modest power supply which suggests that the rated power is only available short term and in ideal conditions.

Spendor speakers are low sensitivity and never easy to drive, a difficult proposition for any amplifier, let alone one that is a little light on current delivery.

It is a power issue, pretty much guaranteed, a result of very poor system building. The volume control is no indicator of the power being delivered by the amplifier, this has been discussed many times before.

 

[hifikrazy]

Yes, I do know that the volume control position is not a good indicator. But for goodness sake, don't you think it's a stretch to say that a decent amp like the Cyrus can't even drive a common speaker like the Spendor A5 to medium volume levels? I'm sure even their integrated amps will drive the A5 to highish levels without any problems, let alone their power amp.

 

[davedotco]

Yes, I do know that the volume control position is not a good indicator. But for goodness sake, don't you think it's a stretch to say that a decent amp like the Cyrus can't even drive a common speaker like the Spendor A5 to medium volume levels? I'm sure even their integrated amps will drive the A5 to highish levels without any problems, let alone their power amp.

The A5 has a sensitivity of 84-85db/watt. Like all Spendors it is not exactly easy to drive or control.

The power amp has a modest 180va power supply which suggests that the specified power ratings will only be obtained short term. To get some perspective the integrated Creek 50a has 300va.

On paper the Cyrus8/A5 is a poor match and the OP's experience seems to confirm that, as indeed does your own choice of power amplifier.

You do realise that the your power amp speaker combination is effectively 10 times more powerful than the OP's, right........ :?

 

[hifikrazy]

The Spendor A5 is 86dB, 8 ohms nominal impedance and 5 ohms minimum impedance. That doesn't sound like a terribly difficult speaker to drive. Now I will admit that the Cyrus power amp may not control the Spendor as well as a more powerful amp, but I just find it hard to accept that with the Cyrus' volume turned up to 10 o'clock , which is probably a modest volume at best given the 86dB sensitivity, that it pushes the Cyrus into clipping.

Yes, I do realise that my power amp/speakers combination wouldn't present similar problems, but I have had a Cyrus integrated amp before and while it would not drive low sensitivity low impedance speakers beautifully, not once did it ever clip even at highish volume levels ie. about 95 dB. And my integrated amp was lower powered than the OP's power amp. I think Cyrus amps are pretty high current amps even though they're so diminutive in stature.

 

[davedotco]

The Spendor A5 is 86dB, 8 ohms nominal impedance and 5 ohms minimum impedance. That doesn't sound like a terribly difficult speaker to drive. Now I will admit that the Cyrus power amp may not control the Spendor as well as a more powerful amp, but I just find it hard to accept that with the Cyrus' volume turned up to 10 o'clock , which is probably a modest volume at best given the 86dB sensitivity, that it pushes the Cyrus into clipping.

Yes, I do realise that my power amp/speakers combination wouldn't present similar problems, but I have had a Cyrus integrated amp before and while it would not drive low sensitivity low impedance speakers beautifully, not once did it ever clip even at highish volume levels ie. about 95 dB. And my integrated amp was lower powered than the OP's power amp. I think Cyrus amps are pretty high current amps even though they're so diminutive in stature.

Given that the power supply in the Cyrus8 is quite modest, how will it deliver high current?

Again you seem fixated by the position of the volume control, it means nothing. The OP's descrition of his problem could not be clearer, the amplifier is being overdriven into a fairly difficult load and is running out of steam at the volume levels (whatever they might be) that the OP wants to listen at.

Buy a better, more powerful amplifier, or lose the speakers for something more sensitive and easier to drive. I would chose the first option.

 

[respe]

Instead of arguing about it on here, why not have a word with the dealer you bought the spendors from. See if you can take them back in, with your amps, and try different speakers on the amps, and different amps on the speakers. It may be a mis match, it may be a fault. A trip to the dealer would hopefully answer the question.

Nothing to do with it beyond I have spendor A6, and Rega Exons, even with the pre amp down at its lowest output, I would not want to spend to much time listening to them at the maximum volume level. No signs of clipping, or driver problems, just loud.

 

[Native_bon]

The question here is how loud is hificonfused playing his music, & also do people who have lesser power amplifiers have problems driving the A5s? If its the latter & they dnt have a problem drving them, then there could be a problem with the speakers. If the former then needs better amp or speakers or different combination of amp & speakers.

Nothing is definite. Just try the speaker or speakers with a more powerful amp that way you will know for sure if speaker is faulty.

 

[hifikrazy]

Totally agree with Respe and Nativebon to troubleshoot the problem instead of just assuming that his amp can't drive his speaker, which may then end spending money on an amp upgrade only to realise that the problem is still there because of a fault with his speaker (which is what I suspect).

And for what it's worth, I'm not at all fixated by the volume control position. Since he can't tell us exactly how loud he's playing, I can only generalise that 10 o'clock on most amps ain't that loud.

 

[davedotco]

Instead of arguing about it on here, why not have a word with the dealer you bought the spendors from. See if you can take them back in, with your amps, and try different speakers on the amps, and different amps on the speakers. It may be a mis match, it may be a fault. A trip to the dealer would hopefully answer the question.

Nothing to do with it beyond I have spendor A6, and Rega Exons, even with the pre amp down at its lowest output, I would not want to spend to much time listening to them at the maximum volume level. No signs of clipping, or driver problems, just loud.

Of course a dealer will be able to sort this out in a few minutes but then no competent dealer would have sold this combination to someone who likes a bit of rock music.

You have to remember that you have A6s driven by Exons, a whole different level entirely, each Exon has more than twice the power capability of the Cyrus (much more in the real world) and your speakers are a touch more sensitive too, absolutely no comparison in terms of power capability.

 

[davedotco]

Totally agree with Respe and Nativebon to troubleshoot the problem instead of just assuming that his amp can't drive his speaker, which may then end spending money on an amp upgrade only to realise that the problem is still there because of a fault with his speaker (which is what I suspect).

And for what it's worth, I'm not at all fixated by the volume control position. Since he can't tell us exactly how loud he's playing, I can only generalise that 10 o'clock on most amps ain't that loud.

Then I can only conclude that you have not tried many amplifiers.

Amplifiers that get far too loud, far too quickly is a common problem and has been discussed many times on here. A combination of over sensitive inputs and high output CD players is the problem.

The idea that a pair of Spendors have the same fault on both speakers is unlikely in the extreme, though if they are not new than the bass drivers may both have been damaged by being driven by an inadequate amplifier, but I think that is a pretty long shot.

 

[hifikrazy]

Actually somebody asked the OP whether it was one speaker or both and he has not replied yet. Agree with you, if both speakers are showing the same problem, then chances are it really is an amp mismatch.

As for not trying many amplifiers, I have owned 9 amplifiers in my lifetime, and everytime before I buy something, I home audition at least 3 to 4 others before deciding. So that means I have home auditioned at least 40 amplifiers, and showroom tested many more than that. I still conclude that in general, 10 o"clock isn't very loud and certainly not loud enough to drive most amps (and certainly not something as capable as a Cyrus 8 Power) into clipping regardless of what speakers they're connected to.

 

[davedotco]

Actually somebody asked the OP whether it was one speaker or both and he has not replied yet. Agree with you, if both speakers are showing the same problem, then chances are it really is an amp mismatch.

As for not trying many amplifiers, I have owned 9 amplifiers in my lifetime, and everytime before I buy something, I home audition at least 3 to 4 others before deciding. So that means I have home auditioned at least 40 amplifiers, and showroom tested many more than that. I still conclude that in general, 10 o"clock isn't very loud and certainly not loud enough to drive most amps (and certainly not something as capable as a Cyrus 8 Power) into clipping regardless of what speakers they're connected to.

Fair enough, let us just say that our experiences of amplifiers is different.

Just to illustrate the point though, a Cyrus pre-amp has an input sensitivity of 500mv and the Cyrus CD player an output in excess of 2 volts. Older sources such as tuners and phono stages may output around 500mv so will not get loud until the volume is raised well past 12 o'clock, but a CD player is different, much louder from the outset, hence the problem.

Add to this the tendency of designers to use 'responsive' volume controls (they impress the unwary) and the problem can get even worse.

 

[hificonfused]

Did not want to start an argument!

I bought my system from one supplier on one day after a lengthy audition.

All equipment tried was as suggested by this supplier. I am shocked at the thought of a poor system build.

Definitely no clipping also no distortion. Just over driving speakers. When using system with B and W dm603s2 system goes to a volume which is too much at 3 o'clock. Suggest to me speakers not upto what is required. Going to try b and w cm10 anyone got opinions?

 

[davedotco]

Did not want to start an argument!

I bought my system from one supplier on one day after a lengthy audition.

All equipment tried was as suggested by this supplier. I am shocked at the thought of a poor system build.

Definitely no clipping also no distortion. Just over driving speakers. When using system with B and W dm603s2 system goes to a volume which is too much at 3 o'clock. Suggest to me speakers not upto what is required. Going to try b and w cm10 anyone got opinions?

You are obviously intent on changing the speakers and The 603 S2 will work fine. It is significantly more sensitive and far easier to control than the Spendor so will undoubtably solve your issues.

In fact it is a much better system match (assuming you like them) than the Spendor, though it is in a completely different class performance wise.

Regarding your dealer, maybe he was having a bad day........ :?

 

[hifikrazy]

Yup, "over driving" speakers doesn't sound like your amp has any power or current deficiency problems. For fear of being labeled as being obsessed with the volume control position again, the fact that you can drive another pair of speakers to 3 o'clock but the Spendor only to 10 o'clock just doesn't make sense. I have never read any complaints about the Spendor not being able to handle louder volumes. Certainly not mine or the A6R which I auditioned before deciding on the D7.

Since you already did extensive auditioning and ended up liking the Spendor best, rather than consider different speakers now, can't you take the speakers back with your amp to the shop and try with another pair of Spendor to at least rule out a problem with your particular pair?

I have auditioned the B&W CM10 and was not impressed with them. I think the A5 is way better balanced. I also did extensive auditioning before settling on the Spendor which is why I'm discouraging you against giving up on Spendor unless you are 100% sure it's not a problem with your particular set.

 

[hificonfused]

Thanks for feedback. Interstingly if I run the x power in mono through one speaker. excactly the same results. If I run the system with a rega p3 turntable results are worse.

Have had the speakers checked out and no faults.

I really think I want something from my system which Spendors can not provide.

In my expereince although I have bought almost all my kit from the same supplier. they have not always been the most helpfull. Consequently going eleswhere this time for speakers. Going this wednesday to try some out. Will let you know how I get on.