Speakers hard to drive?

[Nelis87]

Are my speakers considered 'hard to drive'? I'm not really familiar with this subject. I am curious if I need to upgrade my Pioneer A-30.

Sonus Faber Principia 3
DESIGN:two-way reflex ported bookshelf speakerDRIVERS:1 x 29mm (1.14”) soft dome tweeter, 1 x 180mm (7.1”) mid/wooferCROSSOVER:2500HzFREQUENCY RESPONSE (MFR):45Hz – 25kHz, tuning port includedSENSITIVITY:88dB SPL (2.83V/1m) nominalNOMINAL IMPEDANCE:4 ohmsRECOMMENDED AMPLIFIER POWER:50-200W, without clipping

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Are my speakers considered 'hard to drive'? I'm not really familiar with this subject. I am curious if I need to upgrade my Pioneer A-30.

Sonus Faber Principia 3
DESIGN:two-way reflex ported bookshelf speakerDRIVERS:1 x 29mm (1.14”) soft dome tweeter, 1 x 180mm (7.1”) mid/wooferCROSSOVER:2500HzFREQUENCY RESPONSE (MFR):45Hz – 25kHz, tuning port includedSENSITIVITY:88dB SPL (2.83V/1m) nominalNOMINAL IMPEDANCE:4 ohmsRECOMMENDED AMPLIFIER POWER:50-200W, without clipping

no you do not need to upgrade your amplifier as it will do 4ohms load as your speakers are 4ohms as well and your amplifier is a 70watts amplifier which will double its power too 140watts

on your speakers it will say what the min power of amplifier you need which is 50watts and the maximum power of the speakers are 200watts .

 

[Nelis87]

Are my speakers considered 'hard to drive'? I'm not really familiar with this subject. I am curious if I need to upgrade my Pioneer A-30.

Sonus Faber Principia 3
DESIGN:two-way reflex ported bookshelf speakerDRIVERS:1 x 29mm (1.14”) soft dome tweeter, 1 x 180mm (7.1”) mid/wooferCROSSOVER:2500HzFREQUENCY RESPONSE (MFR):45Hz – 25kHz, tuning port includedSENSITIVITY:88dB SPL (2.83V/1m) nominalNOMINAL IMPEDANCE:4 ohmsRECOMMENDED AMPLIFIER POWER:50-200W, without clipping

no you do not need to upgrade your amplifier as it will do 4ohms load as your speakers are 4ohms as well and your amplifier is a 70watts amplifier which will double its power too 140watts

on your speakers it will say what the min power of amplifier you need which is 50watts and the maximum power of the speakers are 200watts .

Thanks a lot!

 

[Electro]

The Pioneer A30 has a claimed 70wpc but that is into 4 ohms so it will be considerably less into the normal standard of 8 ohms, I doubt it reaches the minimum 50wpc into 8 ohms.

That said it should work with the Sonus speakers as long as the volume is kept to sensible levels

http://www.superfi.co.uk/p-10470-pioneer-a30-amplifier.aspx

I suspect a stronger amp with a better power supply and more current would increase the sound quality quite a bit .*smile*

 

[Pedro]

Low impedance speakers are usually harder to drive because they require greater current from the amplifier. Also, impedance changes with frequency, that's why speakers manufacturers state the nominal (ie average) impedance in their specs. So, the impedance of a speaker may drop to 3 or 2ohms at some frequencies. That you won't know simply by looking at specs.

Sensitivity is the measure of a speaker of converting power into decibels (loudness). 88db means your speakers, in an anechoic chamber, produce 88 decibels 1 meter away with a power of 1W.

Every time you double power you increase loudness by 3db. 1W = 88db; 2W = 91db; 4W = 94db and so forth.

Crown has a useful calculator in the website: http://www.crownaudio.com/en/tools/calculators

I guess your speakers will be fine with that amp.

Sorry for the rusty English.

 

[Gaz37]

Low impedance speakers are usually harder to drive because they require greater current from the amplifier. Also, impedance changes with frequency, that's why speakers manufacturers state the nominal (ie average) impedance in their specs. So, the impedance of a speaker may drop to 3 or 2ohms at some frequencies. That you won't know simply by looking at specs.

Sensitivity is the measure of a speaker of converting power into decibels (loudness). 88db means your speakers, in an anechoic chamber, produce 88 decibels 1 meter away with a power of 1W.

Every time you double power you increase loudness by 3db. 1W = 88db; 2W = 91db; 4W = 94db and so forth.

Crown has a useful calculator in the website: http://www.crownaudio.com/en/tools/calculators

I guess your speakers will be fine with that amp.

Sorry for the rusty English.

 

 

 

Rusty English?

Seriously?

You speak (type) English better than a lot of English people, and as for how well most of us could speak whatever your native language, I suspect that would be simply embarrassing.
Although I always try to learn enough of the language of any country I visit to be polite it's still disgraceful how bad we are at languages.

Sorry for going off topic

 

[davidf]

Officially, the Pioneer A30 is 40wpc into 8ohms.

Specs aside, your speakers will benefit from a better, more capable, amplifier.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Officially, the Pioneer A30 is 40wpc into 8ohms.

Specs aside, your speakers will benefit from a better, more capable, amplifier.

hi David I looked this up last night and the web was saying it's a 70watts amplifier the OP has 4ohm speakers so his amplifier should double its output anyway I will post the spec from the Pioneer website .

SPECIFICATIONS › 70W+70W(20Hz-20kHz,THD0.1%,4ohms) › 40W+40W(20Hz-20kHz,THD0.05%,8ohms) › THD: 0.01 % (Rated Output -3 dB, 8 ohms, 1 kHz) › Guaranteed Speaker Impedance (2 Speaker Terminals): 4-16 ohms (A or B), 8-32 ohms (A+B), 4-16 ohms (Bi-Wiring) › Frequency Response: SACD/CD 5 Hz-100 kHz, 0 dB/-3 dB, PHONO (RIAA Equalization) MM 20 Hz-20 kHz, ±0.5 dB › Signal-to-Noise Ratio (IHF, A Network, Short Circuited) SACD/CD: 105 dB, Phono: 77 dB (MM: 5 mV input), Power Amp Direct: 118 dB › Channel Separation SACD/CD: 90 dB (100 Hz), 90 dB (1 kHz), 75 dB (10 kHz) Power Amp Direct: 90 dB (100 Hz), 90 dB (1 kHz), 85 dB (10 kHz) › Power Requirements: AC 220-230 V, 50 Hz › Power Consumption: 175 W › Power Consumption During Standby: 0.3 W › Dimensions(WxHxD):435x128x360mm › Weight: 7.9 kg

 

[kukulec]

Hello, I have A-30. I used it with a 89 db 4 ohm speaker. Then I changed to a CXA80. The difference is night and day. The little Pio is my favourite amp in its class, but if you want to know what your speakers can do, then yes, it is time to upgrade it.

 

[davidf]

Officially, the Pioneer A30 is 40wpc into 8ohms.

Specs aside, your speakers will benefit from a better, more capable, amplifier.

hi David I looked this up last night and the web was saying it's a 70watts amplifier the OP has 4ohm speakers so his amplifier should double its output anyway I will post the spec from the Pioneer website .

Yeah but just because an amplifier gives a rating at 4ohms, it doesn't necessarily mean that it is any good at driving and controlling 4ohm loads. I've seen this a lot in the past where the 'spec brigade" go by the numbers - but the numbers don't always relate to reality. An A50 I'd say fair enough, but not an A30.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Ok feel bad as I thought the amplifier was ok at 70watts then into 4ohms I hope the OP comes back so we can put him back on the right road .

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

Not all amps can double their output into 4ohms bs......good solid state Amps with robust psu's are prime candidates for such feats.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Not all amps can double their output into 4ohms bs......good solid state Amps with robust psu's are prime candidates for such feats.

off topic

hi mark which is better out of Naim amplifiers the supernait 2 with dac the older model or the newer Naim's new supernait 2 without dac ? As I am on the look out for one on the bay but trying to get one under the £2000 mark .

 

[davidf]

The latest one without the DAC, but I suppose it depends on your priorities 🙂

 

[Blacksabbath25]

The latest one without the DAC, but I suppose it depends on your priorities 🙂

priorities not sure what you mean but basically looking out for one as a second setup so not in a hurry but looking to see if I could find one at a good price

 

[davidf]

The latest one without the DAC, but I suppose it depends on your priorities 🙂

priorities not sure what you mean but basically looking out for one as a second setup so not in a hurry but looking to see if I could find one at a good price

Just whether you will find value and convenience in the onboard DAC. If not, the new one will be better. If you're looking at used, I'd also look out for a Moon Neo Ace (roughly similar price to what you're looking at normally, although I don't know what their typical resale value).

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

It's the original supernait that has the dac and the 2nd iteration doesn't.......I haven't heard thr new version but it has the latest discrete regulator thing happening and is surely going to be the obvious choice...BUT....I have heard of folks liking the original supernait more .....it's a case of horses for courses I'm afraid bs and If it were me..I'd go for the newer model....from what I've heard /read...the nait 2 keeps the house sound of naim (prat)and sprinkles a little more detail and transparency all over it.lol.I think you might like it . you'll do well to get a 2 under 2k.......if I was looking for a amp(with benefits)just under 2k within the naim collective.....used superuniti is where my cash would be going....amp,streamer,radio,dac all under one roof and sounding superb.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

It's the original supernait that has the dac and the 2nd iteration doesn't.......I haven't heard thr new version but it has the latest discrete regulator thing happening and is surely going to be the obvious choice...BUT....I have heard of folks liking the original supernait more .....it's a case of horses for courses I'm afraid bs and If it were me..I'd go for the newer model....from what I've heard /read...the nait 2 keeps the house sound of naim (prat)and sprinkles a little more detail and transparency all over it.lol.I think you might like it . you'll do well to get a 2 under 2k.......if I was looking for a amp(with benefits)just under 2k within the naim collective.....used superuniti is where my cash would be going....amp,streamer,radio,dac all under one roof and sounding superb.

definitely looking for a secondhand one as the supernait 2 new are about £3000 so looking for some Naim muscle under £2000 if possible.

there pre amplifier and power amplifier would cost more and why over budget but I keep looking at the bay for a mint condition Naim

 

[Blacksabbath25]

The latest one without the DAC, but I suppose it depends on your priorities 🙂

priorities not sure what you mean but basically looking out for one as a second setup so not in a hurry but looking to see if I could find one at a good price

Just whether you will find value and convenience in the onboard DAC. If not, the new one will be better. If you're looking at used, I'd also look out for a Moon Neo Ace (roughly similar price to what you're looking at normally, although I don't know what their typical resale value).

the onboard dac doesn't bother me as I would be using a cdplayer with onboard dac anyway but I thought the older Naim supernait 2 or 1 with the onboard dac was the same inside as the newer model

so I no I could probably pick the older model up cheaper Secondhand but I will have to do some more research on the newer model to see what Naim changed apart from the onboard dac

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

Most naim gear will be mint condition.lol.naimees are quite obsessive and look after their kit......but anyway why a second system.....you've got some lovely vinyl waiting to be unleashed......2k will get a very decent tt setup on the go.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Most naim gear will be mint condition.lol.naimees are quite obsessive and look after their kit......but anyway why a second system.....you've got some lovely vinyl waiting to be unleashed......2k will get a very decent tt setup on the go.

I looked into TT but with my little one dancing around it's unwise at the moment I got the room in a different room that I could setup some stand mounted speakers and the Naim with a cdplayer .

the vinyl I've got is going nowhere I will wait till my little one is a bit older before buying a TT

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

Hay bs I've had a turntable right through all three of my kids births.....none batted an eyelid at it...Although it was always out of reach on the top shelf of the rack.....well cheapo argos special in those days.lol.but fair enough if you got a spare room to set a system up....keep some pmc's in mind for those standmounts....I seen a pair of pmc twenty 22's going for £800 on the bay the other day.....a bloody steel at that money....I would have grabbed them myself if I hadn't just bought a new camera system.....these were 2k speakers a couple of years ago.they Will go very nicely with a bit of naim.

 

[nopiano]

W

Low impedance speakers are usually harder to drive because they require greater current from the amplifier. Also, impedance changes with frequency, that's why speakers manufacturers state the nominal (ie average) impedance in their specs. So, the impedance of a speaker may drop to 3 or 2ohms at some frequencies. That you won't know simply by looking at specs.

Sensitivity is the measure of a speaker of converting power into decibels (loudness). 88db means your speakers, in an anechoic chamber, produce 88 decibels 1 meter away with a power of 1W.

Every time you double power you increase loudness by 3db. 1W = 88db; 2W = 91db; 4W = 94db and so forth.

Crown has a useful calculator in the website: http://www.crownaudio.com/en/tools/calculators

I guess your speakers will be fine with that amp.

Sorry for the rusty English.

Rusty English?

Seriously?

You speak (type) English better than a lot of English people, and as for how well most of us could speak whatever your native language, I suspect that would be simply embarrassing. Although I always try to learn enough of the language of any country I visit to be polite it's still disgraceful how bad we are at languages.

Sorry for going off topic

I completely agree. In Germany I feel like I need English grammar lessons again when the locals speak such good English, using tenses and constructions I scarcely remember!

 

[Nelis87]

Thanks for all the opinions guys, it is much appreciated. I was looking at the new Onkyo a-9150 because of the increased power supply and better parts but it has around the same power output so maybe that is just a sideway move? And should I be looking to something else like the Vincent SV-500, which according to my local dealer is one of the finest sounding amps he sells for under 1000. Don't know why but I feel like a Cambridge Audio might not be the best match with my Sonus Faber.

Oh and there is room in this thread for medicore English grammer since I'm not a native myself *biggrin*

 

[davidf]

the onboard dac doesn't bother me as I would be using a cdplayer with onboard dac anyway but I thought the older Naim supernait 2 or 1 with the onboard dac was the same inside as the newer model

I'd say if you don't need digital, get rid of it - keep the two as separate as possible.