Speaker positioning - which wall to go for??

Chewy

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I have an 18ft x 10.5th lounge and I'm thinking of investing in some dedicated stereo listening kit.

Which would be the best position for the speakers, I have two options:

1. On the rear (10.5ft) wall about 1.5ft out from each corner

Or

2. Straddling the centre point of the side (18ft) wall, around 8ft apart, but probably only around 6-12 inches off that wall.

Bearing in mind in both cases that I have got 'permission' to add some acoustic treatments in the corners and (for option 1) the first reflection points?

Also, given these positions, can you recommend an appropriate pair of speakers and suggested partnering electronics (DAC, preamp and amp, unless active speakers) for up to £15k total?

Cheers!
 

CnoEvil

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Hi Gdavies, thats a very nice budget. Can you give an idea of the music you listen to and how you like it to sound ie. Neutral, analytical and detailed or warmer and more musical?

This is key as to what amps and speakers to recommend eg. Cyrus, Focal, ATC vs Class A, Lavardin, Proac, Harbeth etc.

Are you using CD or going the Streaming route?
 

Chewy

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CnoEvil said:
Hi Gdavies, thats a very nice budget. Can you give an idea of the music you listen to and how you like it to sound ie. Neutral, analytical and detailed or warmer and more musical? This is key as to what amps and speakers to recommend eg. Cyrus, Focal, ATC vs Class A, Lavardin, Proac, Harbeth etc. Are you using CD or going the Streaming route?

Hi CnoEvil,

Thanks for the reply. Yeah, it's a good budget - I have putting off going for the full stereo set-up for about 10 years, so I want to get it right first time out if I can, and just make the investment once!

In terms of music I listen to a wide range, from old school dance, to rock and indie, to acoustic and a bit of classical. Also recently some SACD discs which are great.

In terms of sound, I guess I like a little more of a forward and detailed presentation, I like to hear the seperate instruments clearly defined and the pluck of each string, whilst still maintaining the richness in the mid-range and taughtness of bass to envelope you in the music. I hope that's not too much of an 'arty farty' description?!

Cheers,

Gareth
 

Chewy

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CnoEvil said:
Hi Gdavies, thats a very nice budget. Can you give an idea of the music you listen to and how you like it to sound ie. Neutral, analytical and detailed or warmer and more musical? This is key as to what amps and speakers to recommend eg. Cyrus, Focal, ATC vs Class A, Lavardin, Proac, Harbeth etc. Are you using CD or going the Streaming route?

Oh yes, sorry, forgot to add, I want to be able to play music from a server - I currently have a Sonos system, but don't necessarily have to use that in this system - I will also probably want to add a CD player either straight away, or at a later date.
 

CnoEvil

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Right; re your question on room positioning - I think it needs to be option 1, or you will be sitting on top of the speakers......acoustic treatment may be necessary.

SOURCE:

CD: Pathos Digit; MF M6CD.

Streamer: Linn Majik DS; Naim or Olive

AMP + SPEAKERS:

MF AMS 35i / M6 500i; Bryston BP6 / 2B SST 2 + Kef Ref (201/2; 203/2; 205/2)/ PMC Fact 8.....these speakers all have boundry compensation.**

Leema Tucana Mk11 + PMC OB1i

Eletrocompaniet ECI-5 Mk11; EC 4.7/AW 2x120M + Focal Electra 1028 Be;

ATC SIA 2150 (or pre / power) + ATC SCM 40

** This would be my first choice.

Hopefully this will give some food for thought, along with any other suggestions you receive.

Cno
 

Craig M.

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CnoEvil said:
ie. Neutral, analytical and detailed or warmer and more musical?

sorry, but since when did neutral mean analytical, and warm mean musical?

to the op, you really must demo whatever you go for in your room. as Cno said, firing across the width you will be sat very close with a bit of space behind the speakers, and it would be better to have some space behind the listening position too. but 1.5 feet is very close to a corner if you fire them down the length of the room. getting a demo of speakers with boundary compensation is a good shout, mine have it and it works very well. also check out active speakers, some very impressive ones about for your budget (atc, adam, etc), and they have many advantages that relate to sound quality.
 

CnoEvil

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You may be right. I was just trying to describe the polar opposide types of sound that people like.....for the purpose of getting a handle on what to recommend. Personally, I associate Valves and Class A with musicality, but appreciate that isn't everyones' view. This is purely about trying to make sensible suggestions for the OP to consider.
 

Chewy

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Thanks for the recommendations CnoEvil, and I did understand what you meant in your first question regarding the type of sound. You'll have to excuse my ignorance, but how exactly does the room boundary compensation work?
 

CnoEvil

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gdavies09031977 said:
Thanks for the recommendations CnoEvil, and I did understand what you meant in your first question regarding the type of sound. You'll have to excuse my ignorance, but how exactly does the room boundary compensation work?

Boundry compensation allows you to tailor the speaker's bass and treble to help integrate them into the room, and subtley compensate for partnering electronics.

KEF REF (Uni Balance)

The Kef Ref range have screw in/out gold plated caps which have the following effect:

Low Freq (2 settings).
1. 0db (for free space)
2. -2db (when placed close to the wall ie. 9" to front wall; to offset perceived increase in bass).

Hi Freq (4 settings).
There are 4 settings to adjust the brightness to suit room and partnering equipment:
1. +0.75db
2. 0db
3. -0.75db
4. -1.5db

PMC FACT 8 (Fact Control)

Low Freq (3 settings).
1. 0db;
2. -3db;
3. -6db

Hi Freq (3 settings)
1. +2db
2. 0db;
3. -2db

Further info can be found: http://www.fact-speakers.com/technology/control.aspx and by going onto Kef website and downloading the user manual for a Reference speaker.
 

Chewy

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Cheers for the link RMutt, thats a very interesting article. It does, however, seem to contradict the other advice people have given. It seems to suggest that placement of the speakers length-ways is preferable than width ways to achieve a wider sound stage and reduce the impact of first order reflections.

It also advocates sitting against a wall, which others above have advised against?
 

Chewy

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Thanks for the advice Craig. Regarding the speaker positions, if I place them along the length of the room (i.e. I sit with my back to one long wall, and the speakers are against the opposite long wall, this would put me around 8-9ft (ear to tweeter) from each speaker, with the speakers around 8ft apart.

Are you saying this is too close to the speakers? I thought the whole equilateral triangle thing was the ideal? The major problem I can envisage is with the speaker rears being so close to the wall, but a) thats maybe better than being in the corner (?), and b) I can put a large acoustic panel on the wall behind each speaker if that will help (to absorb reflected low frequencies)?

You recommend looking at active speakers, and I have thought about these and do like the idea of having active speakers; I have thought about the ATC SCM 50A's though this might push the budget if I want to get a DAC and/or hi-fi grade streamer. Presumably I need a some sort of pre-amp for active spoeakers do I?
 

Chewy

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CnoEvil said:
gdavies09031977 said:
Thanks for the recommendations CnoEvil, and I did understand what you meant in your first question regarding the type of sound. You'll have to excuse my ignorance, but how exactly does the room boundary compensation work?

Boundry compensation allows you to tailor the speaker's bass and treble to help integrate them into the room, and subtley compensate for partnering electronics. KEF REF (Uni Balance) The Kef Ref range have screw in/out gold plated caps which have the following effect: Low Freq (2 settings). 1. 0db (for free space) 2. -2db (when placed close to the wall ie. 9" to front wall; to offset perceived increase in bass). Hi Freq (4 settings). There are 4 settings to adjust the brightness to suit room and partnering equipment: 1. +0.75db 2. 0db 3. -0.75db 4. -1.5db PMC FACT 8 (Fact Control) Low Freq (3 settings). 1. 0db; 2. -3db; 3. -6db Hi Freq (3 settings) 1. +2db 2. 0db; 3. -2db Further info can be found: http://www.fact-speakers.com/technology/control.aspx and by going onto Kef website and downloading the user manual for a Reference speaker.

Thanks CnoEvil, I get you, essentially like mini on-board EQ's then. I guess this doesn't fix the problem though, if there is one does it (e.g. standing wave issues), just reduces its audible effect. I think I'd rather treat the acoustics given the option.
 
A

Anonymous

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Generally, I have found that an equilateral triangle is about right for speaker posistioning . ie listening nirvana comes at the same distance from the speakers as they are apart.

It isn't a big room, lengthways sounds best imo.

You're quite close to the wall.

I would take some of that enviable budget and get some pro acoustic room treatment seeing as you have permission. Get a pro in. Then audition a large selection of hi-fi and pro speakers. Generally you will get better value from the pro-audio side but you may prefer the hi-fi sound.

Not gonna suggest particular items as my budget has never been that high, except to say money no object, I would be popping over to Avi to test their upcoming active floorstanders +sub. Well below budget, but looking to be rather excellent and very wife-friendly and conservative in the looks dept.

And I've only seen pics of them... so no idea what they sound like, but if they follow the trend, then they will be very good.
 

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