Speaker kit vs big name pre-built?

[JeepnHeel]

Hello all,

I'm putting together a music-only 2.0 (later 2.1) setup for a listening room/office, and have never done this before. I'll be spinning vinyl (vintage pioneer table) 70% of the time, and listening to flac/mp3 through a DAC (bifrost) the other 30%. My current amp is an old pioneer (SX-680), but I'm looking to upgrade to a SX-1250 or even the coveted Marantz 2325 if the stars align down the road.

I don't have speakers yet, and unfortunately can't really go anywhere to test any (the nearest hifi store is almost 6 hours away, and doesn't have a huge selection... i've called). Winging it, as it were, I've narrowed it down to 3 options based on reviews/comments. One of these (Wharfedales) I have seen quite a bit on these forums, but the others not so much. Do any of the speaker gurus have sage advice on the following two main questions?

1. To build or not to build: I've heard great things about GR-Research's DIY kits. I'm considering building a pair of floorstanders (A/V-3). The kit is within my price range, whereas pre-built quality floorstanders are largely not. I'm good at building cabinetry, etc, and decent with a soldering iron. I just don't know how much 'magic' is needed to end up with a quality DIY speaker beyond following the plans/instructions. Any experienced DIY'ers out there with an opinion?

2. Depending on whether DIY is right for me or not, I've initially narrowed my speaker options to three -- the DIY floorstanders and 2 bookshelf pre-builts:

GR-Research A/V-3 DIY floorstanders

Wharfedale Diamond 10.1

Monitor Bronze BX2

I'm assuming with the Diamonds and the BX2's that I will need a sub for right off the bat. I'd rather not spend on it now, but it's a marathon not a race, I suppose. For those with experience with any of these speakers, do you have any opinion on which option would be a better value? As mentioned before, they will be used to primarily listen to vinyl, with light duty on digital content as well.

Thanks in advance to anyone who can lend their experience and brainpower here!

 

[Al ears]

Welcome to the forum.

Whilst I have built speakers in the past I am not familiar with those that you mention. Assuming they utilise decent transducers I would tend to head down that route.

Not sure why you assume Diamond 10.1 etc will need a sub. Avoid like the plague if you are convinced they do. What size room will you be listening to them in, a barn? If listening room is on the large size it would make more sense to go for the kit and will probably get more for your money anyway.

How much is the kit and what drivers do they provide with it?

 

[RobinKidderminster]

GR has some interesting designs. Keep us up to date with your build if you go down that route.

 

[gramps23]

Both of the 'pre builts' you mention are great speakers, and I'm sure that you'd get a great deal of enjoyment from either. I own the 10.1's, run them as part of my second system and love the sound the produce.

I'm not sure that it's possible to make a fare comparison between them and the GR's, unless someone in the U.S is on here and has direct experience? What I gather from the net is - they appear to be made from good quality components, the company has quite a few fans and their products are well reviewed. I like the fact that you have the option to upgrade to better quality cap's and connections, which seems to hint that they're serious about the sound. Lastly, the AV-3's are much bigger than either the Wharfedales and MA's, so if your room is large, then they will be more suitable.

Personally, I have very good experience with DIY audio, and believe that it is possible to get a much better bang for your buck if you take the time to build your own gear. There's also the massive sense of satisfaction that comes with the whole process, especially the bit at the end when you're listening to it!

There's a company in the UK, Wilmslow Audio, who make outstanding loudspeaker kits which sound awesome, especially when compared to pre builds in the same price bracket. If GR Research are anything like them, then the AV-3's could be a very good way to go.

 

[JeepnHeel]

Welcome to the forum.

Whilst I have built speakers in the past I am not familiar with those that you mention. Assuming they utilise decent transducers I would tend to head down that route.

Not sure why you assume Diamond 10.1 etc will need a sub. Avoid like the plague if you are convinced they do. What size room will you be listening to them in, a barn? If listening room is on the large size it would make more sense to go for the kit and will probably get more for your money anyway.

How much is the kit and what drivers do they provide with it?

Thanks very much, Al!

The kit is $330, but I would add in sonicaps for another $70, which makes it an even $400. I can get the mdf & veneer locally, and have every tool, clamp, and solvent currently known to mankind (that's my other expensive obsession). The kit spec list is here: http://gr-research.com/av-3.aspx

I am definitely not a bass-head by any means (my go-to set of phones right now are Grado 325i's), but I was a bit concerned that a pair of bookshelves wouldn't fill out the lower end enough. I haven't had any experience with small speakers not included with a crappy big-box store boombox, so I'm probably underestimating the range of the Wharfedales and Monitors. More than half of my vinyl is jazz, blues, & soul, with the remaining half split between rock, metal, & 80's (no club or techno, etc), and I'm definitely more interested in mid-range & upper end detail. I don't want to miss out on the lower end altogether though... from your comment it sounds like the Diamonds are not oriented toward bass as much as some of the other bookshelves?

My room is basically a 13ft x 17ft rectangle, with the speaker locations on either side of the center of the 13ft wall (can't change that as the missus has the office as she likes it!). The sitting areas are about 12 ft away.

My inclination was to go for the kit, as I'm a DIY'er at heart, but I'm just a bit worried that there will be more to getting a great sonic result outside of me following the directions & being my usual meticulous self... like some sort of practiced adjustment or judgement or voodoo incantation needed.

 

[JeepnHeel]

GR has some interesting designs. Keep us up to date with your build if you go down that route.

They do.... as weekend-mechanic type of person, the thought of building the cabinets & doing the assembly myself to save $ is very appealing (having no particular experience with speaker/audio physics, I'm just a bit apprehensive). I will definitely post pictures of any construction if that's the path.

 

[Coll]

I have had a look at the website and they look like great kits for the money. I have built many speakers over the years (probably 12 pairs) they have all been good and worked without problems. You can get great satisfaction from building your own speakers. In my own experience its not cheaper but you get more for your money. I am thinking of building some at the moment using Dynaudio drivers it will probably cost me about £1500 but will probably be equivalent of £ 2500 speakers.

 

[JeepnHeel]

I'm not sure that it's possible to make a fare comparison between them and the GR's, unless someone in the U.S is on here and has direct experience?

Thanks for the advice -- as you mention, finding someone who has heard the Diamonds/BX2's AND the AV-3's seems like a pretty unlikely scenario. In my head, the question started becoming, do I build my own, or buy something smaller? I'm happy to hear DIY worked out for you... I definitely know that "it worked" feeling (that's why my wife's former laundry room is filled with tools)!

they appear to be made from good quality components, the company has quite a few fans and their products are well reviewed. I like the fact that you have the option to upgrade to better quality cap's and connections, which seems to hint that they're serious about the sound.

I would plan on getting the cap upgrade, but probably not the tube connectors as it's my (ridiculously-uneducated) initial impression that they would be more of the "nice-to-have-but-no-significant-difference" upgrades, while the caps would be more significant low-hanging fruit. Please correct me if I am making a bad assumption here.

Lastly, the AV-3's are much bigger than either the Wharfedales and MA's, so if your room is large, then they will be more suitable.

My room is medium-sized (13ft x 17ft rectangle) -- am I correct in thinking both bookshelf & floorstanders would work in that size?

There's a company in the UK, Wilmslow Audio, who make outstanding loudspeaker kits which sound awesome, especially when compared to pre builds in the same price bracket. If GR Research are anything like them, then the AV-3's could be a very good way to go.

Wilmslow seems like a great company - the AV-3 would maybe be comparable to their Vogue line? Like you, I have read nothing but good things about GR Research (and I've tried to find the bad!)... my only concern is the extend of my own ability not to screw it up, haha (or worse, have it sound ok enough to not know I messed up a fine detail or two)....

 

[JeepnHeel]

I have had a look at the website and they look like great kits for the money. I have built many speakers over the years (probably 12 pairs) they have all been good and worked without problems. You can get great satisfaction from building your own speakers. In my own experience its not cheaper but you get more for your money. I am thinking of building some at the moment using Dynaudio drivers it will probably cost me about £1500 but will probably be equivalent of £ 2500 speakers.

That sounds encouraging! If you were using a pre-defined kit for any of those builds, did you have to spend any significant time 'tweaking' the physical parts of the speakers to sound their best, or was it mainly just assembling the parts themselves? I definitely hear you on the 'not cheaper' part, especially when factoring in all the money I've spent on obscure tools & clamps (I have a clamp built to secure the corners of an octogon... why did i buy that?!?!? My wife asks why and I cannot answer her in a way that makes me sound like a sane person).

To my question above, my concern is that I don't really have a good frame of reference to what it "should" sound like, but it will probably sound better to me than the junky speakers I have used up to now, so I won't know if any adjustments or fine tuning is needed. Am I worrying too much about the details here?

 

[jiggyjoe]

Have a look at some of these http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Diy_Loudspeaker_Projects.htm

 

[RobinKidderminster]

There is a great thread here on building a pair of tl speakers. Sorry my search is playing up. If your skills are there (apparently so) then go for it! The speaker instructions will give constriction details taking care of the 'physics'. Your room seems an ideal size for floorstanders too imo. Good luck

 

[Coll]

Have a look at some of these http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Diy_Loudspeaker_Projects.htm

This is a great site I have looked at this lot, this man really knows how to design speakers.

This is were I got my ideas from for building using Dynaudio units.

 

[Coll]

I have had a look at the website and they look like great kits for the money. I have built many speakers over the years (probably 12 pairs) they have all been good and worked without problems. You can get great satisfaction from building your own speakers. In my own experience its not cheaper but you get more for your money. I am thinking of building some at the moment using Dynaudio drivers it will probably cost me about £1500 but will probably be equivalent of £ 2500 speakers.

That sounds encouraging! If you were using a pre-defined kit for any of those builds, did you have to spend any significant time 'tweaking' the physical parts of the speakers to sound their best, or was it mainly just assembling the parts themselves? I definitely hear you on the 'not cheaper' part, especially when factoring in all the money I've spent on obscure tools & clamps (I have a clamp built to secure the corners of an octogon... why did i buy that?!?!? My wife asks why and I cannot answer her in a way that makes me sound like a sane person).

To my question above, my concern is that I don't really have a good frame of reference to what it "should" sound like, but it will probably sound better to me than the junky speakers I have used up to now, so I won't know if any adjustments or fine tuning is needed. Am I worrying too much about the details here?

I just built using the parts no tweaking involved, as I said the speaker units look good value. After a lot of hard work Im sure you will be very happy.

 

[JeepnHeel]

I just built using the parts no tweaking involved, as I said the speaker units look good value. After a lot of hard work Im sure you will be very happy.

Awesome... that was what I was looking to find out. Hard work I am capable of right now... expertise and theory, not so much.

It sounds like the AV-3's are the way to go for me right now. From the information I have, it sounds like they come with very thorough plans/instructions, so I believe I will, at the very least know what I should be doing. I will make sure to post progress of the build when I actually start construction after the holidays.

Many thanks to all for the advice in this thread.

 

[Coll]

The great thing about building your own is that you can have any finish you like and any grille colour you want, if you fit them.
If they are not tall enough you can make them higher and put a false bottom in so you don't alter the internal volume. I have even made bookshelf speakers into floorstanders doing that.
If you do a good job its great to tell people you made them yourself your friends will be very impressed.
As I said I have made many pairs of speakers some very expensive and they have all been great sounding. I have even built sub woofers as well. The only tweaking I have ever done is increasing or decreasing the cabinet volume using a bass driver design programme, but you do not need to do that for your build just follow the instructions given.

 

[Coll]

I have had a look at the website and they look like great kits for the money. I have built many speakers over the years (probably 12 pairs) they have all been good and worked without problems. You can get great satisfaction from building your own speakers. In my own experience its not cheaper but you get more for your money. I am thinking of building some at the moment using Dynaudio drivers it will probably cost me about £1500 but will probably be equivalent of £ 2500 speakers.

Sorry I made a mistake I should have Scan Speak drivers not Dynaudio dont know what made me say that.t

 

[Anonymous]

Hi there,

I have Gr research n3 built with sonicaps upgrade - probably only one in UK it is excllent speaker - i had few different speakers and dont think anything under £2k can beat it. I went through some MA GR20, GS20, GS60 and even platinum 100 and 200 and these were better! Well, close to platinum 200 apart from gorgeous ma finish

if you have skills, go for it,

 

[JZC]

I've personally never tried to make my own speakers although I once worked with someone a long time ago who recommended Wilmslow Audio.

A few years ago I was in contact with a guy (I think in Holland) who built his own electrostatic speakers and I've just checked on Google and there are some sites devoted to this. I imagine that Electrostatics would be more difficult but still it might be something worth investigating before making a final decision. I don't know if there are any kits though.

 

[Coll]

I have infact just finished building the Troels Gravesen design "Illumina 66 Floorstander" total cost was about £1600.

They are not run in yet but they sound great. Good clean well defined bass, clean and clear sounding, very smooth. There are options in the hf circuit for different resistors so you can tailor the sound to suit.

 

[steve_1979]

I have infact just finished building the Troels Gravesen design "Illumina 66 Floorstander"

Pictures!

 

[Coll]

If you go to the Troels Gravesen website they will be there in a few days time ( I Hope )