Speaker burn in

[Noddy]

Today I picked up my brand new speakers, and returned the loaners that had been ordered in specially for me to try. The shop used the loaners for a few hours, and then I took them home for five days. I probably used them for more than thirty hours. I am sure I perceived some changes to the sound, after three days the bass appeared to get stronger and intrusive, then settled down after a few more days.

Anyway, to my surprise the new ones I picked up today sound the same as the loaners. Obviously I can’t say if the sound is identical, but the changes I thought I heard must have been largely if not completely imagined.

Speaker burn in might be a real phenomenon, but in this case it is either subtle or non existant. The changes I perceived were psychological, presumably my brain adapting to the speakers. Or my mind playing games. It happens to us all. Of course my subjective experience with one particular model of speaker from one manufacturer (Kef LS50 Meta) tells us nothing about other speakers. Or other people, I guess.

I also experienced burn in with headphones. Clearly this could also be adaptation of the brain, and not a change in the headphones.

 

[abacus]

All mechanical items need to be run in, however as to how much (If any) the performance will change will depend on the item.

Bill

 

[nopiano]

My experience is similar, last time I borrowed speakers and then bought the same. That was over five years ago, when I had ATC SCM40 (passive) from the dealer’s demo room until mine arrived.

I couldn’t tell any difference. But then ATC test every driver manually before assembly (there are several factory tour videos on YouTube showing this). A blast at full power gives each driver a workout. I suspect KEF assemble without testing every piece, but I don’t know, and mean no slight. Their volumes will be many times that of ATC after all.

Where I have found a difference is if I bring speakers in from the car on a winter’s day. Most surrounds sound better at room temperatures. And incidentally if buying old speakers it’s important they’ve not been stored in sheds, garages or attics. Room temperature is best.

 

[Friesiansam]

I also experienced burn in with headphones. Clearly this could also be adaptation of the brain, and not a change in the headphones.

I've mentioned this before on this site. When I bought my Focals, they were disappointing out of the box. Without further listening, I ran them quiet loud for 24 hours, as per Focal's recommendation. After running-in they sounded much nicer but, whether they improved further as I continued using them, I'm not so sure about. I see no way of proving whether I simply grew used to them, the headphones improved further or, a bit of both.

 

[Al ears]

I've mentioned this before on this site. When I bought my Focals, they were disappointing out of the box. Without further listening, I ran them quiet loud for 24 hours, as per Focal's recommendation. After running-in they sounded much nicer but, whether they improved further as I continued using them, I'm not so sure about. I see no way of proving whether I simply grew used to them, the headphones improved further or, a bit of both.

Basically the thing you need to change is the resilience of the rubber surrounds on the bass, and sometimes midrange transducers. This is where room temperature enters the equation.

 

[plastic penguin]

Today I picked up my brand new speakers, and returned the loaners that had been ordered in specially for me to try. The shop used the loaners for a few hours, and then I took them home for five days. I probably used them for more than thirty hours. I am sure I perceived some changes to the sound, after three days the bass appeared to get stronger and intrusive, then settled down after a few more days.

Anyway, to my surprise the new ones I picked up today sound the same as the loaners. Obviously I can’t say if the sound is identical, but the changes I thought I heard must have been largely if not completely imagined.

Speaker burn in might be a real phenomenon, but in this case it is either subtle or non existant. The changes I perceived were psychological, presumably my brain adapting to the speakers. Or my mind playing games. It happens to us all. Of course my subjective experience with one particular model of speaker from one manufacturer (Kef LS50 Meta) tells us nothing about other speakers. Or other people, I guess.

I also experienced burn in with headphones. Clearly this could also be adaptation of the brain, and not a change in the headphones.

Any mechanical item with moving parts need time to run in or burn in. Some brands sound better than others when new, to run in depends how often you play them.

When I first purchased the RS6s I literally kept the hi-fi on all night.

 

[Noddy]

Any mechanical item with moving parts need time to run in or burn in.

Do they? Do you have scientific proof for that statement? Does a DCT have to burn in?

What I posted was not fact, it was my subjective observations. But it indicates to me that my impression that the demo speakers had burnt in was largely if not completely mistaken. Some people have done experiments, measuring speakers when new, and after some hours of use, and found no measureable change in the sound. So perhaps burn in is yet another audiophile myth. It does seem to be a bit of a sleezy industry.

Some brands sound better than others when new, to run in depends how often you play them.

When I first purchased the RS6s I literally kept the hi-fi on all night.

I thought my PMCs needed running in, but without any scientific method to test the sound, I could have been completely mistaken. We easily fool ourselves.

 

[record_spot]

Do they? Do you have scientific proof for that statement? Does a DCT have to burn in?

What I posted was not fact, it was my subjective observations. But it indicates to me that my impression that the demo speakers had burnt in was largely if not completely mistaken. Some people have done experiments, measuring speakers when new, and after some hours of use, and found no measureable change in the sound. So perhaps burn in is yet another audiophile myth. It does seem to be a bit of a sleezy industry.



I thought my PMCs needed running in, but without any scientific method to test the sound, I could have been completely mistaken. We easily fool ourselves.

You have no idea how many times the above arguments have been run to death in WHF. Sometimes folks just want to run in some tunes...

 

[Noddy]

You have no idea how many times the above arguments have been run to death in WHF. Sometimes folks just want to run in some tunes...

Oh I do. And cable discussions.

The simple message of my post is that it is so easy to deceive oneself. As to whether some speakers need to burn in, I don’t know, but I will only trust scientific measurements.

 

[plastic penguin]

You have no idea how many times the above arguments have been run to death in WHF. Sometimes folks just want to run in some tunes...

Shouldn't that be "run in to death"?😋😁

 

[plastic penguin]

Do they? Do you have scientific proof for that statement? Does a DCT have to burn in?

What I posted was not fact, it was my subjective observations. But it indicates to me that my impression that the demo speakers had burnt in was largely if not completely mistaken. Some people have done experiments, measuring speakers when new, and after some hours of use, and found no measureable change in the sound. So perhaps burn in is yet another audiophile myth. It does seem to be a bit of a sleezy industry.



I thought my PMCs needed running in, but without any scientific method to test the sound, I could have been completely mistaken. We easily fool ourselves.

I have a engineering background, 4 year apprenticeship.

Of course moving parts need to run in. Cables don't need to burn in or run in....

If you have a car totally restored, they don't say you need to run the electrics in but you have to run in a freshly rebuilt engine.

 

[Gray]

Speaker burn in might be a real phenomenon, but in this case it is either subtle or non existant. The changes I perceived were psychological, presumably my brain adapting to the speakers. Or my mind playing games. It happens to us all.

Ah, good old burn-in.
"Don't like the sound you've got?" "Wait till you've given it xxx hours, the sound will change"
...because things loosen up, they say.
So they loosen up....till they sound just right.
They NEVER continue to loosen up, until they sound worse.
They ALWAYS sound better after the essential burn-in.

....100% your brain adapting to the sound is more responsible for any change you perceived than any 'burn-in'.....don't worry about that.

And yes, PMC said my speakers required burn-in....they would be the odd ones out if they didn't say they needed to be run in. Cyrus said my amp needed burn-in.
Neither required burn-in, the sound on day 1 was very much the sound on day 101.
My brain took a little while adapting to the new sound....after decades listening to something different, what else could I expect?

 

[Gray]

....you see I like a nice tight, fast sound from my speakers.
If things loosen up so much after burn-in, why didn't I hear a looser, worse sound as time went on?

I think burn-in is very much something people read others saying you need....so they pass the message on.

 

[plastic penguin]

....you see I like a nice tight, fast sound from my speakers.
If things loosen up so much after burn-in, why didn't I hear a looser, worse sound as time went on?

I think burn-in is very much something people read others saying you need....so they pass the message on.

That's oversimplifing the whole burn in thing. To me once burnt in the overall presentation is more cohesive, rather than a sound that is more prominent in one part of the frequency. The RS6s, for example, the treble sounded more forward until the bigger drivers found their feet, so to speak, then it sounded more balanced.

 

[Gray]

That's oversimplifing the whole burn in thing. To me once burnt in the overall presentation is more cohesive, rather than a sound that is more prominent in one part of the frequency. The RS6s, for example, the treble sounded more forward until the bigger drivers found their feet, so to speak, then it sounded more balanced.

I would very much suggest that things will sound more prominent on new speakers (to the point of sounding wrong)....until the brain accepts that the wrong balance, though different to the one you've been used to for decades, is actually a more correctly balanced sound.

Unless the new balance is actually wrong - in which case the brain grows to accept the incorrectness because our brains are always correcting imperfections for us.

Sorry but I will never be convinced that physical burn-in has a greater influence than brain adaptions.

 

[plastic penguin]

I would very much suggest that things will sound more prominent on new speakers (to the point of sounding wrong)....until the brain accepts that the wrong balance, though different to the one you've been used to for decades, is actually a more correctly balanced sound.

Unless the new balance is actually wrong - in which case the brain grows to accept the incorrectness because our brains are always correcting imperfections for us.

Sorry but I will never be convinced that physical burn-in has a greater influence than brain adaptions.

You could be right, we will never know for sure unless we could gather a neurological specialist and a speaker maker to confirm one way or another.

The Dalis, straight out of the box, were very good and even those improved as the weeks went on.

 

[Noddy]

I have been improving my French, last spoken regularly thirty years ago, and I have discovered that French people too need to be burnt in. After all, they are speakers aren’t they? At first they sound nasal and mumbly. Then after a few hours their voices have burnt in, the sounds become more cohesive and dare I say musical, and I can understand them.

Someone said it was my brain adapting to the idiosyncracies of each persons accent. Nonsense.



As an aside, if you audition new speakers, you might want to give them more than five minutes listening, preferably many hours at home. I’m sure that is common knowledge among the regulars here of course.

The fact that ‘the ears’ adapt to a hifi component is hardky surprising, the brain is the worlds most complex pattern recognition engine. There js a chap in Canada who is about 75 years old, and he speaks 20+ languages. He is still learning new ones too. Whenever you take uo a new skill, such as skating, the brain learns as you go along, and you improve.

 

[WayneKerr]

I would very much suggest that things will sound more prominent on new speakers (to the point of sounding wrong)....until the brain accepts that the wrong balance, though different to the one you've been used to for decades, is actually a more correctly balanced sound.

Unless the new balance is actually wrong - in which case the brain grows to accept the incorrectness because our brains are always correcting imperfections for us.

Sorry but I will never be convinced that physical burn-in has a greater influence than brain adaptions.

Definitely agree with this. Heard it myself, and confused the hell out of me.

 

[GSV Ethics Gradient]

When I first purchased the RS6s I literally kept the hi-fi on all night.

The WHF article on my GR20s suggested they needed a long run-in (burn-in doesn't feel like an appropriate term for speakers - or anything else for that matter), so they were left on whilst we were all out of the house. Did it make a massive difference? Hard to say - I think any differences would have emerged so gradually that they'd be lost.

This thread makes me think of tyres - which definitely don't like it when they are out of their appropriate temperature range, and new tyres definitely don't give their very best straight off.

And repeated hot/cold cycles don't help tyres either - they crack more quickly. Another reason to garage your car, which seems like something of a lost art.

 

[podknocker]

My QA3030i have opened up a lot in the last 2 years. Never had them really loud, but if I open them up a bit, then the bass does improve. It's more fluid and stops and starts better. It's also getting deeper and I can't imagine anyone buying these speakers and then adding a sub. I think the suspensions and materials do need electrical and mechanical activity, to make them 'settle in' and not sound stiff. I suppose it's the same with tyres and car engines. There is an optimal operating temperature for speakers, tyres, engines and many products. I found my old KEF Q35.2 speakers sounded better, when the living room was warmer. The polypropylene UniQ drivers were very sensitive to temperature changes.

 

[podknocker]

Environmental conditions do play a role in the perception of sounds. Perhaps, just maybe, people get into their cool living rooms and listen to their kit, with cheap QED 79 strand and then they fit some Van Den Hul cable, after the room has reached a nice comfy 21C, to find their system sounds better. It's the posh cable! Or is it? Stuff like this must happen. I don't doubt people think they hear differences, but it might not always be for the reasons they think. Mood, temperature, humidity, light levels etc. I do think burn in for speakers and some other devices, is a real thing. I've noticed time and temperature change the sound of my kit, over many years. All this needs to be considered. Not wanting to start another cable rant BTW!

 

[GSV Ethics Gradient]

All this needs to be considered. Not wanting to start another cable rant BTW!

Amen to that!

 

[podknocker]

I see the C word alarm is still working!

 

[Al ears]

I see the C word alarm is still working!

not for long.....

 

[aversaurus]

I think burn in is a thing but maybe a large part of it is us getting used to the new sound.