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sonos or mini hifi for my conservatory

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andyjm

New member
Jul 20, 2012
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bigboss said:
andyjm said:
bigboss said:
Sonosnet is far more robust than WiFi. Connect a Sonos Boost to your router.
Well yes, and no. Sonos uses a Mesh network, with each Sonos box forming a node in a net. Each box then tries to find the most robust route back to the source, either directly, or indirectly using other Sonos boxes as relays. For a multi box system, this results in a more stable implementation with the boxes chatting amongst themselves.

For a one box setup as the OP proposes, the Sonos Mesh network can't form. As the Mesh network is really just a protocol sitting on top of standard Wifi cards at standard power, for a single hop, the Sonos Mesh has no more range than standard Wifi.
That's why I've suggested Sonos Boost to be connected to the router to create the mesh.
There is no mesh with one player. Its point to point. Same as Wifi.
 

bigboss

Moderator
andyjm said:
bigboss said:
andyjm said:
bigboss said:
Sonosnet is far more robust than WiFi. Connect a Sonos Boost to your router.
Well yes, and no.  Sonos uses a Mesh network, with each Sonos box forming a node in a net.  Each box then tries to find the most robust route back to the source, either directly, or indirectly using other Sonos boxes as relays.  For a multi box system, this results in a more stable implementation with the boxes chatting amongst themselves.

For a one box setup as the OP proposes, the Sonos Mesh network can't form. As the Mesh network is really just a protocol sitting on top of standard Wifi cards at standard power, for a single hop, the Sonos Mesh has no more range than standard Wifi.   
That's why I've suggested Sonos Boost to be connected to the router to create the mesh.
There is no mesh with one player. Its point to point.  Same as Wifi. 
https://sonos.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/3046/~/choosing-between-a-standard-and-boost-setup
 

bigboss

Moderator
bigboss said:
andyjm said:
bigboss said:
andyjm said:
bigboss said:
Sonosnet is far more robust than WiFi. Connect a Sonos Boost to your router.
Well yes, and no.  Sonos uses a Mesh network, with each Sonos box forming a node in a net.  Each box then tries to find the most robust route back to the source, either directly, or indirectly using other Sonos boxes as relays.  For a multi box system, this results in a more stable implementation with the boxes chatting amongst themselves.

For a one box setup as the OP proposes, the Sonos Mesh network can't form. As the Mesh network is really just a protocol sitting on top of standard Wifi cards at standard power, for a single hop, the Sonos Mesh has no more range than standard Wifi.   
That's why I've suggested Sonos Boost to be connected to the router to create the mesh.
There is no mesh with one player. Its point to point.  Same as Wifi. 
https://sonos.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/3046/~/choosing-betwe...
 

andyjm

New member
Jul 20, 2012
15
0
0
bigboss said:
bigboss said:
andyjm said:
bigboss said:
andyjm said:
bigboss said:
Sonosnet is far more robust than WiFi. Connect a Sonos Boost to your router.
Well yes, and no. Sonos uses a Mesh network, with each Sonos box forming a node in a net. Each box then tries to find the most robust route back to the source, either directly, or indirectly using other Sonos boxes as relays. For a multi box system, this results in a more stable implementation with the boxes chatting amongst themselves.

For a one box setup as the OP proposes, the Sonos Mesh network can't form. As the Mesh network is really just a protocol sitting on top of standard Wifi cards at standard power, for a single hop, the Sonos Mesh has no more range than standard Wifi.
That's why I've suggested Sonos Boost to be connected to the router to create the mesh.
There is no mesh with one player. Its point to point. Same as Wifi.
https://sonos.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/3046/~/choosing-betwe...
Yep, have a close look at the diagrams. Using a boost at the same location as the router, and then using only one player is point to point - same as Wifi.

Sonos's mesh network still uses the same Wifi cards and channels as Wifi, and each 'hop' has the same range limitations as Wifi. There is no magic to the Sonos Mesh, it utilises a 'spanning tree protocol'. This sits on top of the Wifi cards and looks to see if it would be better to connect direct to the source (the boost or the router) or go via another Sonos player as a relay. By making these decisions for each player, in a multiplayer setup the protocol builds a network of relays and direct links, generating a more stable implementation. If you are keen, you can get Sonos to print out the tree matrix it has decided upon which shows the routes the protocol has established.

If you only have one player, then as I mentioned above, that is point to point and is no different to Wifi (because that is what it is).

I have a very solid Wifi system with multiple access points. Given the shape of my house and placement of the players, Sonos struggles to establish a mesh, and it is far more reliable to hang the Sonos off the Wifi than allow it to have a go itself.

Edit: For the keen reader, Sonos used to have a port at 1400 that allows you access to this info. http://<IP address>:1400/support/review (where <IP address> is the IP address of the player) will display the mesh matrix. I am not sure if the port is still available though.
 

johnnyboy1950

Well-known member
May 27, 2013
25
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18,540
Sorry to move the goalpost again. Looking at the wireless speaker options, Sonos still sounds promising but limited inputs. Bluesound gets great SQ reviews but is not DLNA compliant. Now Ive found the Heos 7 hs2 with a significant price drop. It seems to have all the connectivity needed (more than sonos) DLNA compliance (unlike the Bluesound equivilant) but no trueplay. Help!
 

insider9

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2016
823
375
5,270
How about Adam Artist 5 with a streamer of your choice that does all you want? Have a look at Davedotco's thread. You could almost get a stereo pair for price of Heos. Then add something like Raumfeld Connector 2 and you're sorted. All in for circa £550.
 

bigboss

Moderator
This is What Hi Fi's verdict of Heos:

The problem for the HEOS system is it doesn’t quite do enough to raise its head above the rest of the multi-room crowd. For example, Audio Pro and Bluesound both are better-sounding systems (despite Audio Pro lacking hi-res audio support), and Sonos offers a more thorough and pleasant user experience.

This is a good system, one that does everything pretty well - but there’s not a truly compelling case to go the HEOS route over that of one of those rivals.
 

johnnyboy1950

Well-known member
May 27, 2013
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18,540
The bluesound pulse 2 is what Im refering to. I read somewhere that you have to set up a "netshare" what ever that is. If it doesnt use DLNA then Im assuming software like

Bubbleupnp wont be able to see the speaker.
 

newlash09

Well-known member
Aug 28, 2015
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10,820
johnnyboy1950 said:
The bluesound pulse 2 is what Im refering to. I read somewhere that you have to set up a "netshare" what ever that is. If it doesnt use DLNA then Im assuming software like

Bubbleupnp wont be able to see the speaker.
I used net share too with my powernode. In essence, inside the bluesound control app you have to go to net share settings, and type in the IP address of your Nas. Once done, the bluesound will map your nas drive , including album art and you can control playback from the bluesound app itself. Though I never tried bubbleupnp. For more details you can post a query in the bluesound forum, if that is the only thing stopping you from getting one.
 

andyjm

New member
Jul 20, 2012
15
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0
johnnyboy1950 said:
The bluesound pulse 2 is what Im refering to. I read somewhere that you have to set up a "netshare" what ever that is. If it doesnt use DLNA then Im assuming software like

Bubbleupnp wont be able to see the speaker.
Johnny,

When you buy into the streaming / wifi speaker world, it is completely different to buying basic hifi. You rely on continual updates and support from the manufacturer to keep the stuff going. New iOS on your phone? need an update for the controller app. Spotify update their API? need an update for the player. New version of Windows? need an update for the PC app. Want support because your new BT/ Huawei router won't play nicely? on the phone to technical support ..... and so on and so on.

I am sitting in my office typing this looking at a stack of Squeezebox products. I believe they still sell for good prices, so I should get them on ebay if I can get round to it. Technically advanced, high quality sound, no longer made. When Logitech ditched the products I moved to Sonos.

When you decide which way to jump, take into account the whole package - support, logevity in the business, stability of product.

I would strongly advise against buying the latest whizz-bang product and stick with a manufacturer commited to the business who has a reputation for support.
 

johnnyboy1950

Well-known member
May 27, 2013
25
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18,540
Ok so today I got to audition some gear at Sevenoaks Hifi in Witham. They did not have the Heos 7 in stock so I listened to the Bluesound pulse 2 and then the Sonos Play 5 using Tidal. The Bluesound sounded slightly better but both still had that "music from a box" presentation. I thought I had decided on a wireless unit but just for curiosity's sake I asked them to set up a Yamaha all in one,, the YAMAHA CRXN470D with the new Q acoustics 3010i and 3020i.

Night and Day can be an overworked cliche in the HIFI world but in this case it definately applys. With either speaker the difference was astonishing (we spaced them approx 1 metre apart which is the limitation I have on the wooden cabinet at home). Whats more the combined price is £440 or £490. The play 5 is £500 and the bluesound is £650 and no CD player! So I cant imagine why anyone would pay significantly more for equipment that sounds inferior and has less functionality.
 

bigboss

Moderator
johnnyboy1950 said:
So I cant imagine why anyone would pay significantly more for equipment that sounds inferior and has less functionality.
Depends on what you ultimately want from your system. For me, I have Sonos in all my rooms (6 in total). I've had Sonos since 2010 and all its players are still fully supported by Sonos. It's given me hassle free performance over the years. In one room, I've connected Sonos Connect to powered speakers and in the other, I've connected Sonos Connect to my AV receiver. People can also get a Sonos Connect Amp and use with passive speakers, so they're not limited to one box options only. CD is a dying format; I haven't bought one in 4 or 5 years.

Yamaha clearly works better for you, but that doesn't mean other options are senseless. There's no single solution that works for all.
 

johnnyboy1950

Well-known member
May 27, 2013
25
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18,540
I wasn't dissing Sonos in particular. Dont forget Im not looking at a multiroom thing right now. But i cant get past the fact that on a one to one basis the conventional all in one box and a pair of speakers for much less money completley trounced over all the wireless speakers I listened to, even the Naim Mu-so Qb. WHF are giving a lot of these wireless speakers 5 stars, and none I have heard come close to conventional setups that sometimes get 4 stars or less and cost signicantly less. I have struggled in the past with some of the reviews on WHF and what they are really trying to convey but this is the first time I can say "YES I CAN HEAR THE DIFFERENCE".
 

bigboss

Moderator
johnnyboy1950 said:
I wasn't dissing Sonos in particular. Dont forget Im not looking at a multiroom thing right now. But i cant get past the fact that on a one to one basis the conventional all in one box and a pair of speakers for much less money completley trounced over all the wireless speakers I listened to, even the Naim Mu-so Qb. WHF are giving a lot of these wireless speakers 5 stars, and none I have heard come close to conventional setups that sometimes get 4 stars or less and cost signicantly less. I have struggled in the past with some of the reviews on WHF and what they are really trying to convey but this is the first time I can say "YES I CAN HEAR THE DIFFERENCE".
Sonos caters to a different need than conventional setups. Of course there will be differences between one box solutions and 2 stereo speakers. Sonos Play:5 as a pair in stereo mode is excellent, obviously comes at a price. Sonos Playbar is excellent, but you can get better for the money if you look at sound quality alone. But for what Sonos does (multiroom), it's amongst the best in business. As I've said few times in this thread alone; really depends on your needs. You weren't looking for multiroom, so Sonos isn't the right product for you.
 

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