So why did everything look so bad in the shop yesterday?

[admin_exported]

I've finally got around to replacing my 20004 vintage 32" (non HD) Sony Wega CRT set. I've been looking at LED TVs and quite like to Samsung offerings. Yesterday I went into a couple of shops to look at the screens to see what they were like in real life. I left pretty disappointed, I was expected to be astounded by a massive increase in picture quality over my CRT - but they hardly looked any better at all. Infact, the football match being showed looked terrible as the players were all blurring as they moved and the colours looked pretty poor. This was the same on all the sets, LCD/LED/Plasma and all the makes that I saw.

Surely this can't be right? I though 6 years of technological progress should have made a massive difference to image quality and that the new tech should blow a CRT set away. So what's going on? Is it just that these showrooms don't set the TVs up properly to show off how good they are or (despite all the technological advances....and I find this hard to believe) do new screens struggle to match CRT?

 

[Anonymous]

What shop?

 

[Anonymous]

Both of that I went into, PC world and Currys Digital.

 

[grdunn123]

Most shops don't take time to set up their sets lke you'd have them at home. They go for 'dynamic' high colour settings to try to impress. They also have many sets running from one aerial 'feed' which means that the signal quality degrades.

 

[Cookie Monster]

You mean the shops that expect you to pay £1,000 plus for a TV yet can't even be bothered to get them calibrated properly!

Yes a source of frustration held by many.Bit like test driving a 'misfiring car', you just wouldn't want to take a chance with your cash, and how could anybody expect you to.

I had a Philips Pixel Plus 2 CRT set and my SD picture now nearly matches it. Only my new LCD set is 12 inches bigger at the same viewing distance. As all will tell you new sets can exceed CRT's but never the same as seeing them for yourself.

Worth mentioning which store and town you went to, bound to be somebody willing to help with a nearby store recommendation

 

[grdunn123]

Cookie Monster:
You mean the shops that expect you to pay £1,000 plus for a TV yet can't even be bothered to get them calibrated properly!

Yes a source of frustration held by many.Bit like test driving a 'misfiring car', you just wouldn't want to take a chance with your cash, and how could anybody expect you to.

I had a Philips Pixel Plus 2 CRT set and my SD picture now nearly matches it. Only my new LCD set is 12 inches bigger at the same viewing distance. As all will tell you new sets can exceed CRT's but never the same as seeing them for yourself.

Worth mentioning which store and town you went to, bound to be somebody willing to help with a nearby store recommendation

When you wander in to a big store like BB or PC World/Currys there are literally hundreds of tv's on display....guess it would be a lot of work to individually calibrate/feed them with a different signal

 

[Anonymous]

So it's normal for them to look a bit disappointing in that kind of shop setting then?

I'd be pretty miffed if I spent £1K on a new TV, got it home and it turned out to be no better (or even worse..) than the set it's replacing.

If anyone can suggest a shop in Leeds that can demo a properly set up screen then I'd be grateful.

 

[Liam19]

jon360:
I've finally got around to replacing my 20004 vintage 32" (non HD) Sony Wega CRT set. I've been looking at LED TVs and quite like to Samsung offerings. Yesterday I went into a couple of shops to look at the screens to see what they were like in real life. I left pretty disappointed, I was expected to be astounded by a massive increase in picture quality over my CRT - but they hardly looked any better at all. Infact, the football match being showed looked terrible as the players were all blurring as they moved and the colours looked pretty poor. This was the same on all the sets, LCD/LED/Plasma and all the makes that I saw.

Surely this can't be right? I though 6 years of technological progress should have made a massive difference to image quality and that the new tech should blow a CRT set away. So what's going on? Is it just that these showrooms don't set the TVs up properly to show off how good they are or (despite all the technological advances....and I find this hard to believe) do new screens struggle to match CRT?

You have to remember that new TVs have a far higher native resolution than the CRTs of old, but the resolution of broadcasts has not increased accordingly (HD channels aside, obviously). Therefore, the image has to be scaled (i.e. blown up) to fill the screen, which will inevitably affect how good it looks. Ultimately, new TVs need a HD signal if they're to truly impress - it's what they are built for.

And yes, while it's definitely true that many stores don't calibrate their sets properly (if at all), they normally set the contrast, colour and sharpness way up on purpose to try and catch the customer's eye in a brightly-lit showroom. Just about any half-decent TV will look far better when calibrated for the average living-room.

 

[kinda]

I recently moved from a good 36" CRT (Hitachi Natura with progresive scan) to a 26" LCD, (Samsun LE26C450). I was worried and the shop picture sare rubbish, but I haven't noticed a big drop in picture quality, and sometimes it looks a bit better.

I can tell from calibrating it can't match the contrast of the CRT, but it doesn't seem to make much difference in real viewing.

I've sometimes been a bit dissapointed if I've stuck a film on, but I haven't really put a lot of effort into calibrating it for that as I have a projector.

So I think you can get as good a picture, but I'd have a proper demo if you can as there are some aspects of the modern sets that some people just don't seem to like, particularly for motion.

But personally I don't think the new sets have made great strides forward. I think it was all about convenience and they're only really now catching up CRT for quality.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Why not?

Richer Sounds do.

A second hand car dealer wouldn't try and sell you a £1,000 run-around without making sure it is running correctly. Takes a lot longer than 5 minutes to achieve this for them so why not 5 mins per set in a shop with many a member of staff standing round on a monday.

Actually i agree that they do blow colour, contrast up etc. to make them look more dynamic.

But then these stores are convenient and im guessing that if given the choice we all prefer specialist outfits where we can 'play' anyway.

 

[TheHomeCinemaCentre]

Cookie Monster:

A second hand car dealer wouldn't try and sell you a £1,000 run-around without making sure it is running correctly. Takes a lot longer than 5 minutes to achieve this for them so why not 5 mins per set in a shop with many a member of staff standing round on a monday.

It is unlikely the larger stores even consider this. When so many sets are sold from the dynamic/shop setting why would they want to alter their succesful approach? If you wish to see a properly set up television, cinema system, computer etc etc try a local specialist.

 

[chebby]

jon360: So it's normal for them to look a bit disappointing in that kind of shop setting then?
I'd be pretty miffed if I spent £1K on a new TV, got it home and it turned out to be no better (or even worse..) than the set it's replacing

Not a problem with most customers who prefer the blown out colours and 'dynamic' settings.

I have a few 'reference' discs I use to get a natural look. Films like 'Barry Lyndon' and 'The Battle of Britain' for natural outdoor colours without 'shouty' reds or greens. (The Battle of Britain is especially good also for very crisp and sharp interiors.)

In Barry Lyndon there are the bright red uniform jackets against sunny and cloudy green landscapes. I am never happy until the tendency of red to 'shimmer' is completely tamed and the texture of the cloth is visible.

Equally with naturally shot landscapes I don't want the sort of unvarying, blown out, 'highlighter pen' green you get on football programmes (artificially lit astroturf usually).

Trouble is that - in a shop setting - a well adjusted picture that looks good in your living room isn't going to 'stand out' (it would look too subdued for most people) and won't sell.

A lot of people judge picture quality by the standards of gaming graphics and CGI movies and Pixar type animations rather than anything more realistic or natural.

 

[Anonymous]

I have a Samsung UE55c8000 LCD set and the when you first switch it on out of the box you are asked if you want to use "Demo" mode or "Home " mode. Its easy for the shops to set the TV's up to impress, they just select the Demo mode which winds up every setting on the TV to max I guess!

You wont be disappointed if you do some research first and try and get to see a good TV in a home setting with good calibration.

PM me if you are anywhere near the lake district and maybe you could have a demo?

 

[Anonymous]

I've worked at Currys for 5 years now and the awful feed we have on the majority of TVs has been the same since I started. They just have a single DVD player which is split and amplified over an aerial connection to the majority of the TVs on show. Many of the feeds are faulty and some sets look terrible, regardless of how you calibrate them. In 5 years I have never heard any mention or suggestion that I should calibrate any of the TVs that we display. It's just not considered important.

As the Currys stores are being refurbished, they are being fitted with HD feeds for there TV displays. I was working at the Chesterfield branch recently during the refurbishment and things look much better, but you now have the problem of people seeing the TVs with an HD feed and thinking they will always look like that.

It is frustrating but the fact is that most people that shop there don't care enough to walk away from a set because it's not been set up properly, so shops like Currys won't bother.

 

[kinda]

I think the bottom line is they aren't specialists as such in most cases. They are selling TVs in the same way the sell fridges and so on.

At John Lewis when I asked if a TV could be set up with a DVD player to see it in action I got a definite no they don't have time for that and the assistant looked at me as if I was some kind of lunatic.

Obviously I avoided getting a main display from there but did get a smaller set as I had some vouchers and I just wen from reviews.

Currys have done me a demo of a BluRau player bbefore, but no calibration of the TV such. Maybe they would have done so if I'd pushed it.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Jon.

Go to your local Sony centre!!!

I purchased a KDL-40EX713 a couple of weeks ago, to replace a KDL-32D3000.

It would appear that the sets in their showroom are set-up for best results, although the review in this magazine was not particularly good, sighting problems with backlight bleed.

However, I have to say, that I am blown away by the picture quality and have no issues with the backlighting. You will of course need a good aerial for HD reception

Most of the sets are currently subject to a 'VAT back' offer, so get in quick, and No I'm not connected with Sony, just a satisfied customer going back to the days of the first colour sets!

 

[Cookie Monster]

Nice one Alwatson i like a bit of honesty. Look like they are moving forward though, great move as HD grows and 3D starts to take hold. Difficult to complain really when you consider the cost of such an overhaul.

Thats the reality i guess. Specialist shops are well 'specialist' and guess you can't really try a washing machine before buying.

Had a good experience at Currys, Wednesbury when they connected up my Panny BD player for me to try. Trouble is they only had component connection. That was in the home cinema bit though where they are a little more fussy. Also got me my Jamo speakers from a PC world store when none were available late last year.

If you think about internet shopping though you don't get to see you're purchase at all, and anyway i assume High Street shoppers are probably not fussy enough to spend time discussing this on WHF forums.

Luckily there is Richer Sounds who seem to offer a great balance of price, visibility, testing and extremely well priced extended warranties. Sure there is the odd nightmare but the priciples are there.

Overall i suppose thats we love this magazine so much.

 

[bigboss]

Also don't forget that if your eyes are used to watching a 21-inch screen, larger TVs will appear blurry with motion initially. Check the TVs from a distance similar to your viewing distance at home & allow your eyes to settle a bit.

 

[Deleted member 2457]

Probaly because most tvs today are rubbish.

The best tvs in terms of plasmas and lcds in my opinion were made about 3 years back.

These days they are highly stripped down and it is hard to find good ones but can be done with a little bit of luck

As someone has already mentioned sony are making some very good ones, definitely worth checking them out.

Also make sure you demo on all sources.

Good luck

 

[Anonymous]

Not sure about Sony centres.

Visited our local a couple of weeks ago and all the TV pictures were awful, the Panasonic store next door really put them to shame.

 

[Anonymous]

I'd also suggest viewing a TV on whatever sources you're likely to use. I always ask people what they are connecting it to then if possible will show them the TV they're looking at with that source or similar. It invariably looks better than the awful aerial feed most of the TVs are on.

 

[Anonymous]

The fact they don't set them up properly is a good enough reason to not buy from them. Go to a decent dealer whose prices will be pretty close, the gear will be set up correctly, and the service will be first rate.