So who won the great bake off?

[oivavoi10]

I will find it really interesting if the Sentrys came out on top, and even the AVI guys agreed on that. That would confirm a hunch I've been having for a while: that size matter quite a lot in hifi, much more than people think. Bigger speakers quite often just sound better, to my ears. I'm not entirely sure why, though. But looking forward to reading more about your experiences!

I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Sentrys came out on top but for me this never was a true three way shoot out, it was always between the similiar sized Hegel/ATC combo and the AVI's, with one pairing swapping a collection of books for decent support! It's a shame the proposed Devialet entry was absent... Sheer size makes a massive difference but in all honesty how many people could incorporate speakers the size of the Sentrys into their homes...? The inclusion of the Sentrys will for sure make interesting reading but it's a case of apples and oranges. I'd still like to thank those that took the time and effort though, can't wait to read up on their opinions.

I agree that sheer size makes a difference. That's been my experience several times. And yes, few people can accomodate such speakers in their homes...

I don't think it's obviously intuitive, though, why it may make a difference. Big speakers will often be able to move more air and play louder without too much effort, so that may explain why they sound better in certain cases. But in this case, I assume that all of the setups where level-matched (otherwise it would be a really untrustworthy bake-off), and that music was played at relatively normal levels. So if the level was exactly the same and the speakers weren't pushed extremely hard, what's left to explain why bigger speakers may sound better?

I have some theories about this, but so far it's only theories. I have searched around a bit to find information on this, but haven't really found anything. The most reasonable explanation I can think of is about the bass (I would guess from 300 hz and downwards): Bass waves are very big, and the lowest ones are very big. It may be that bigger bass drivers simply are able to reproduce such big sound waves in a more natural way, since the drivers are closer in size to the sound waves themselves.

The second explanation is that bigger speakers with more or bigger drivers are filling more of the room with sound. Even though the sound level may be exactly the same at ear level, bigger speakers will also make you feel the sound physically in your feet and your stomach, to a much larger degree. This may make music feel better. Sound is physical, as simple as that.

But now we're venturing into abstract territory. Can I has my bake-off results, please!

 

[avole]

in my previous post.

 

[luckylion100]

in my previous post.

I'd perfer to hear the results from the horse's mouth. All 3 of them.

The comment from Lindsayt on PFM posted at 02.33am was not his final thoughts on the bake off.

 

[avole]

plus a thread on another forum. However that forum is run by a scumbag so I'm not going to name it.

 

[drummerman]

plus a thread on another forum. However that forum is run by a scumbag so I'm not going to name it.

Nice

 

[james_LR90]

plus a thread on another forum. However that forum is run by a scumbag so I'm not going to name it.

AOS???

 

[Infiniteloop]

I will find it really interesting if the Sentrys came out on top, and even the AVI guys agreed on that. That would confirm a hunch I've been having for a while: that size matter quite a lot in hifi, much more than people think. Bigger speakers quite often just sound better, to my ears. I'm not entirely sure why, though. But looking forward to reading more about your experiences!

I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Sentrys came out on top but for me this never was a true three way shoot out, it was always between the similiar sized Hegel/ATC combo and the AVI's, with one pairing swapping a collection of books for decent support! It's a shame the proposed Devialet entry was absent... Sheer size makes a massive difference but in all honesty how many people could incorporate speakers the size of the Sentrys into their homes...? The inclusion of the Sentrys will for sure make interesting reading but it's a case of apples and oranges. I'd still like to thank those that took the time and effort though, can't wait to read up on their opinions.

Apologies again. A family bereavement meant I was unable to attend.

Maybe another time?

 

[Infiniteloop]

What was the final playlist?

 

[lindsayt]

We had all 3 systems up and running for about 6 hours. In that time we played a very wide variety of music.

 

[luckylion100]

I will find it really interesting if the Sentrys came out on top, and even the AVI guys agreed on that. That would confirm a hunch I've been having for a while: that size matter quite a lot in hifi, much more than people think. Bigger speakers quite often just sound better, to my ears. I'm not entirely sure why, though. But looking forward to reading more about your experiences!

I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Sentrys came out on top but for me this never was a true three way shoot out, it was always between the similiar sized Hegel/ATC combo and the AVI's, with one pairing swapping a collection of books for decent support! It's a shame the proposed Devialet entry was absent... Sheer size makes a massive difference but in all honesty how many people could incorporate speakers the size of the Sentrys into their homes...? The inclusion of the Sentrys will for sure make interesting reading but it's a case of apples and oranges. I'd still like to thank those that took the time and effort though, can't wait to read up on their opinions.

Apologies again. A family bereavement meant I was unable to attend.

Maybe another time?

I apologise I did read of your loss on another thread and totally forgot. My sincere condolences.

 

[luckylion100]

in pointing me in the right direction so that I can read Lindsayt's final thoughts regarding the bake-off?

The internet is full of so called 'scumbags' so I'm having difficulty in pin pointing this exactly. ;-)

Thanks

 

[lindsayt]

The least good sounding system was the laptop into Hegel H360 to ATC 11's.

I think that andrewjvt and lpv captured the differences between this system and the AVI's very well in this thread: http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/passive-set-v-active-set?page=1

Inparticular post #25.

I agree with everything they said in that thread about the sound of those two systems when compared to each other.

One minor point I would add to what they said is that the ATC's would benefit from the addition of a sub. A prime example of that was one test track where the other 2 systems captured the bass drum pretty well, whilst with the ATC's it was AWOL. Whilst a sub would help with the lack of bass extension it wouldn't address the lack of clarity plus a certain amount of midrange crudeness when compared to the AVI's.

Andrewjvt said that he was planning to use the ATC 11's as the rear speakers in a surround system. For those duties they'd be more than up to the job. Probably more like total overkill for that role.

 

[thewinelake.]

I must be missing something, but this thread is doing my head in!!!

Is this the revenge of andrew & co on the miserable gits who wrecked the last thread?

 

[avole]

but agree it's hard to come to a conclusion when the other two involved aren't participating and lindsayt is being rather coy about the whole thing.

 

[Electro]

Please just tell us all . *crazy* *dash1*

 

[luckylion100]

for the feedback. I appreciate your honest accessment. It's enough for me. Simply confirms my view that the AVI Dm10's were a genuine upgrade from what I had before especially if they out performed the Hegel 360 / ATC SCM11 combo. My previous amp was seriously lacking compaired to Andrew's kit. So all those banging on about specs and ratings I suggest you get out and listen to a pair of DM10's before knocking them..

 

[avole]

They came second!

In the end, if you forget the marketing ********, it's the speakers you like that count, not what crossover they have. You like yours, fine. I like mine, the same ones I've had for over ten years. They have passive crossovers, but so what? They knock all other speakers of similar size into a cocked hat, according to my ears, anyway.

 

[radiorog]

They came second!

In the end, if you forget the marketing ********, it's the speakers you like that count, not what crossover they have. You like yours, fine. I like mine, the same ones I've had for over ten years. They have passive crossovers, but so what? They knock all other speakers of similar size into a cocked hat, according to my ears, anyway.

What are your speakers avole? (And can I afford them!)

 

[radiorog]

The least good sounding system was the laptop into Hegel H360 to ATC 11's.

Yep, very surprised with that still!

 

[chebby]

Please can someone (who was there) say what the overall conclusion was?

I am getting the feeling that the EV Sentry system was liked (preferred maybe?) but no-one is allowed to say it (or that the Sentry system was preferred but then disqualified on size/age/looks).

 

[avole]

They came second!

In the end, if you forget the marketing ********, it's the speakers you like that count, not what crossover they have. You like yours, fine. I like mine, the same ones I've had for over ten years. They have passive crossovers, but so what? They knock all other speakers of similar size into a cocked hat, according to my ears, anyway.

What are your speakers avole? (And can I afford them!)

Sonus Faber Minimas. Cost me 300€ secondhand. If you can find them, go for them. They're the speakers Franco Serblin used to voice all his others. They don't do loud bass, but I've yet to hear any that come close.

 

[Infiniteloop]

They came second!

In the end, if you forget the marketing ********, it's the speakers you like that count, not what crossover they have. You like yours, fine. I like mine, the same ones I've had for over ten years. They have passive crossovers, but so what? They knock all other speakers of similar size into a cocked hat, according to my ears, anyway.

What are your speakers avole? (And can I afford them!)

Sonus Faber Minimas. Cost me 300€ secondhand. If you can find them, go for them. They're the speakers Franco Serblin used to voice all his others. They don't do loud bass, but I've yet to hear any that come close.

There's something very special about the original Sonus Fabers. A long time ago I had a pair of Concertos. The midrange was just gorgeous.

 

[luckylion100]

They came second!

In the end, if you forget the marketing ********, it's the speakers you like that count, not what crossover they have. You like yours, fine. I like mine, the same ones I've had for over ten years. They have passive crossovers, but so what? They knock all other speakers of similar size into a cocked hat, according to my ears, anyway.

the presence and performance of the EV Sentry 111's were never of relevance of me. They would never present a viable option for home listening here. Apples and Oranges. In term of comparison to what is regarded as very decent kit (ATC/Hegel) the DM10's performed excellently. Consider the prices of the forementioned equipment in the bake-off suggests to me that they more than qualify as great VFM. I'm not an AVI fanboi just someone pleased with their choice and the listening experience (I've been consistant in this). In my search for actives I was very close to going for either the Genelec 8050B or Event Opals. It's just that the AVI seemed the better option for me considering MY needs.

Sadly this proves it's not just marketting ********. I'm sure Lindsayt would have enjoyed reporting back with a statement indicating that the DM10's were nothing but hype but he didn't and I respect that. I'm willing to accept the opinion of anyone with personal listening experience of these speakers pro or con, if they've actually heard them and so qualifed to comment.

Makes me laugh, these forum pages are full of experts that continually bang on about the importance of a personal audition. Be they speakers or whatever other gear is being considered, it's even mentioned in another on-going cable thread! Yet a certain brand of speakers is mentioned and countless people come out of the woodwork to condemn something they're no personal experience of. Boring.

 

[avole]

no-one else at the bake off has commented. Interesting, huh?

 

[lindsayt]

but agree it's hard to come to a conclusion when the other two involved aren't participating and lindsayt is being rather coy about the whole thing.

When you think about it logically, what would they gain by writing about the bake-off here?

Nothing.

They were there. They know how each system sounded. Why should they spend the time typing up what they thought, when last time all they got was a load of grief about books, and using the sub on 1 system only and about swapping the stands and level matching and so on and so on?