So...the upgrade path conundrum as usual... My system is geared for clarity, dynamics, tonal accuracy and ruler flat response ; a 'warts and all' presentation... I'm using Cyrus CD6SE front end, Nordost Red Dawn throughout, AVI S21 Mi Integration Amp, IsoTek Sigmas GII Mains conditioner, REL StrataIII and Stadium III SubBass systems together, and ATC SCM19's. :dance: THE QUESTION THEN : How best to I spend £5K on an upgrade? do I buy a single component and if so what??? or apportion £5K across a couple of items? What is the weak link in my kit?!!! :shifty:
So..where best to spend money on an upgrade..?!!
- Thread starter MaxLegroom
- Start date
That's some kit you've got there and with that kind of money for improvements, a home demo is absolutely necessary. I personally would be looking at the 3 main areas. It'll involve a lot of auditioning but then you'll know for sure. Your amp, your speakers and then your source. I feel your speakers are most likely the strongest link in your system though (Purely from what I've read, not actually had an hands-on with them). Others on the forum will be able to offer greater advice, good luck!
DocG
Well-known member
Hi Max,
Might be an unusual suggestion, but I would add another link in the chain and go for a good DSP engine. Something like the DEQX HDP-Express II. It gets you time- and phase-alignment of all drivers (including 1 or 2 subs) and can take the room acoustics into acount too, if you wish.
You can connect the CDP digitally and you get extra digital inputs (SPDIF, AES/EBU and USB) in case you want to go the streaming route later on.
A Google search will give you an idea of what it's capable of (At RMAF 2012 they 'upgraded' a pair of public address speakers with a DEQX module, with great result apparently). I'm not sure if you have a dealer nearby though...
With the stuff you have now, that's what I would do. No sideway moves! :dance:
Might be an unusual suggestion, but I would add another link in the chain and go for a good DSP engine. Something like the DEQX HDP-Express II. It gets you time- and phase-alignment of all drivers (including 1 or 2 subs) and can take the room acoustics into acount too, if you wish.
You can connect the CDP digitally and you get extra digital inputs (SPDIF, AES/EBU and USB) in case you want to go the streaming route later on.
A Google search will give you an idea of what it's capable of (At RMAF 2012 they 'upgraded' a pair of public address speakers with a DEQX module, with great result apparently). I'm not sure if you have a dealer nearby though...
With the stuff you have now, that's what I would do. No sideway moves! :dance:
SpursGator
Well-known member
Your amp. I can currently buy it for less than a grand on eBay. The kind of money you have could get you something far better - I've seen Class A Sugden monoblocks for less than your budget.
And - get a DAC.
If you spent four grand (used) on the amp, it would be a huge upgrade. Leaves you a grand to listen to high-ish end DACs.
And - get a DAC.
If you spent four grand (used) on the amp, it would be a huge upgrade. Leaves you a grand to listen to high-ish end DACs.
Nice kit. I wouldn't agree about the amp, AVI made class electronics, and that model packs easy enough power for your speakers.
SpursGator
Well-known member
I'm not talking about 'enough power.' The AVI is a great product, well-reviewed, a nice amp for the money - people love the way it sounds. I'm making no argument with it at that price.
But our man here has five grand. Even though he needs a DAC (probably) that leaves a lot of cash. The amp is nice but it is hardly anything that is going to make your hair stand on end, especially when compared to what he could get used for four grand (and considering the speakers could cope with lots better electronics).
The AVI has neither its preamp section nor its power amp in Class A. No sweet-sounding tubes. No XLR inputs. In doesn't even come close to doubling its output power into 4 ohms and shuts itself down at 420 wpc in 2 ohms (this from a 'high-end' Class AB amp that claims 200 wpc to 8 ohms).
I saw the Pathos monoblocks for 4800 euros a pair, negotiable. I've seem the Sugden monos for less. I saw a huge Bryston for sale - not the top one but the almost-as-big 2 channel, whichever one that is - at like $3300, shipping worldwide. If he got a DAC with a volume control he could use any of these power amp options.
His speakers could cope with all of the above. The AVI is currently selling for less than a grand. Price isn't everything but he has the cash to go 4x that price level. It isn't being disrespecful to the AVI to say that amps four times its cost can beat it.
But our man here has five grand. Even though he needs a DAC (probably) that leaves a lot of cash. The amp is nice but it is hardly anything that is going to make your hair stand on end, especially when compared to what he could get used for four grand (and considering the speakers could cope with lots better electronics).
The AVI has neither its preamp section nor its power amp in Class A. No sweet-sounding tubes. No XLR inputs. In doesn't even come close to doubling its output power into 4 ohms and shuts itself down at 420 wpc in 2 ohms (this from a 'high-end' Class AB amp that claims 200 wpc to 8 ohms).
I saw the Pathos monoblocks for 4800 euros a pair, negotiable. I've seem the Sugden monos for less. I saw a huge Bryston for sale - not the top one but the almost-as-big 2 channel, whichever one that is - at like $3300, shipping worldwide. If he got a DAC with a volume control he could use any of these power amp options.
His speakers could cope with all of the above. The AVI is currently selling for less than a grand. Price isn't everything but he has the cash to go 4x that price level. It isn't being disrespecful to the AVI to say that amps four times its cost can beat it.
So it isn't class A and doesn't have tubes, it's still a classic! Personally, with that amount of cash, I'd splash the lot on speakers, ATC floorstanders, Maggies or Martin Logan, but you need the space.
I had a class A for a couple of weeks but got rid of it because it wasn't any better than the Nait 5i I had. Class A are a bit overrated in my book.
I had a class A for a couple of weeks but got rid of it because it wasn't any better than the Nait 5i I had. Class A are a bit overrated in my book.
matt49
Well-known member
Nice system!
With that budget and a fine system already in place, I'd be minded to cast all theory to the wind and just experiment.
Do you have good dealers near you? How about borrowing some kit for a home demo? Maybe the kind of amps that Spursgator has suggested, and a DAC, and also some speakers. That's the best way to find out what you think is the 'weak link' in your current system, and in the end what you think is what matters.
As for speakers, I'd be looking to move away from the standmount-plus-sub kit to floorstanders, as Al Lemon suggests.
DocG's idea is also a good one, though not sure how easy it'd be to home demo that kit.
One thing I probably wouldn't do (and this was, I think implied by Spursgator's DAC idea) is get rid of the CDP. Cyrus make good transports.
Keep us posted!
Matt
With that budget and a fine system already in place, I'd be minded to cast all theory to the wind and just experiment.
Do you have good dealers near you? How about borrowing some kit for a home demo? Maybe the kind of amps that Spursgator has suggested, and a DAC, and also some speakers. That's the best way to find out what you think is the 'weak link' in your current system, and in the end what you think is what matters.
As for speakers, I'd be looking to move away from the standmount-plus-sub kit to floorstanders, as Al Lemon suggests.
DocG's idea is also a good one, though not sure how easy it'd be to home demo that kit.
One thing I probably wouldn't do (and this was, I think implied by Spursgator's DAC idea) is get rid of the CDP. Cyrus make good transports.
Keep us posted!
Matt
altruistic.lemon said:
What amp was it?
A lot of so called pure Class A are in fact high bias Class A......you need to try the offerings from Luxman, Accuphase, MF AMS and Sugden Masterclass, to hear what the fuss is about. If they don't weigh a ton, have low power outputs (usually around 20-30W) and heat up 1 deg C for every Watt, they are unlikely to be the real thing.
iceman16
Well-known member
Without telling you what you will prefer, I would suggest you look at Streamers from Cyrus and Linn, amplification from Bel Canto and Cyrus and speakers from Vienna Acoustics, Focal, Tannoy, Triangle, Elac and Usher.
iceman16
Well-known member
Hi Max..just another amp to consider>)
http://www.audioemotion.co.uk/musical-fidelity-ams-35i-integrated-amplifier---preowned-1142-p.asp
http://www.audioemotion.co.uk/musical-fidelity-ams-35i-integrated-amplifier---preowned-1142-p.asp
iceman16
Well-known member
One thing i can differentiate Class A amp from other amps is that it does'nt make any artificial detail which are very common to some amps which ive heard.
Electro
Well-known member
I have a different suggestion
Sell the ATC scm 19's and buy a pair of PMC PB1i's .
You could sell the subs as well because believe me you wont need them ! This will give you exactly the sound you have asked for and more .
The PB1i's are selling at a much reduced price at the moment down from £7000 to £5499 because the new PMC 26 will be announced soon :shifty: :silenced: :silenced: .
http://www.fanthorpes.co.uk/pmc-speakers/pmc-pb1i-speakers-2180037-411411-.php
The AVI amp will be more than adequate to drive the PB1i's for the moment as they are quite an easy load and the AVI amp is famous for it's grip and control .
Sell the ATC scm 19's and buy a pair of PMC PB1i's .
You could sell the subs as well because believe me you wont need them ! This will give you exactly the sound you have asked for and more .
The PB1i's are selling at a much reduced price at the moment down from £7000 to £5499 because the new PMC 26 will be announced soon :shifty: :silenced: :silenced: .
http://www.fanthorpes.co.uk/pmc-speakers/pmc-pb1i-speakers-2180037-411411-.php
The AVI amp will be more than adequate to drive the PB1i's for the moment as they are quite an easy load and the AVI amp is famous for it's grip and control .
iceman16 said:
I would have to back this suggestion as well. :shifty:
(Though, ideally the 35i prefers high sensitivity, low impedance speakers).
wait... what exactly is wrong with your system sound wise?
do you just have 5grand burning a hole in your pocket?... if so give it to me, I'll give you some cables/interconnects that'll improve the sound of your set up, not ordinary cables but magic cables.
if you don't want to give it to me try finding a charity or two to support - some of you guys are terrible encouraging him/her like this....terrible.
do you just have 5grand burning a hole in your pocket?... if so give it to me, I'll give you some cables/interconnects that'll improve the sound of your set up, not ordinary cables but magic cables.
if you don't want to give it to me try finding a charity or two to support - some of you guys are terrible encouraging him/her like this....terrible.
iceman16
Well-known member
Thompsonuxb said:
Well, if he didn't want encouraged, he shouldn't have posted on a hifi forum, but on a Speleology forum. :twisted:
iceman16
Well-known member
sorry..English is not my native language and I don't encourage but suggest to the OP my friend based on my experienced
iceman16
Well-known member
altruistic.lemon said:
Mr Lemon.. Sir.. You are more than welcome to visit and come over here in my humble abode to hear what you've might missed. thank you Sir!
Hi-FiOutlaw
Well-known member
iceman16
Well-known member
matt49
Well-known member
There's a pair of (white) Kudos C30s on ebay at the moment for £1800 (RRP £5500).
Very fine speakers and a bargain at this price, assuming they are as advertised ...
:cheers:
Matt
EDIT added pic
Very fine speakers and a bargain at this price, assuming they are as advertised ...
:cheers:
Matt
EDIT added pic
altruistic.lemon said:
*** it a brick !
i agree with al (first time for everything.
Why the **** would anybody put a 5k amp with the SCM19.
There seems to be some strange posts on this forum ATM.
(I had to self edit again, or have I got permission to swear)
richardw42 said:
.....because, with some £2k speakers, the right £5k amp can make a dramatic difference; and the SCM19s could be the perfect speaker for a given person's room and taste.
Facebook
Twitter
Instagram