Silent Burning-In for amps?

[drummerman]

I'd like to perhaps add that I personally have not experienced the amazing transformations some people have quoted when using new products over the first few days or even weeks. - Our memories, as stated in a previous thread of mine, are notoriously unreliable and influenced by a variety of factors. Because of this it is unlikely we remember exactly what something sounded like even a relatively short time ago. We recall the recalls. To further complicate things, our moods and health are also a factor on how we perceive things.

Thats not to say changes dont take place but if they do they are likely small and nowhere near as significant as switching in a new component, whatever that may be or even (especially?) moving speakers around/changing seating position.

Something as simple as listening to music when you feel relaxed and at ease with yourself and the world probably makes a bigger difference.

regards

 

[kevinJ]

I've bought a usb -> optical digital converter about a month ago, and it sounded very bright right out of the box. Brighter than when my dacmagic did the usb to optical conversion. Very strange, since all that device had to do was change it from one digital connection to another.

Left it playing a day or two and it settled in nicely. No more brightness or sharp edges to high notes or sibilance to women's voices. And yes, I had the dacmagic and the converter connected at the same time and switching between them took about half a second.

I don't know why there's a difference, but there is.
It might have something to do that all electronic parts need a current/signal for some time before they achieve their optimal characteristics. And the lower the current that passes through, the longer it takes to run in.

For speakers, it's easy to check. Measure the Thiele/Small parameters before use and again after about 50hrs, and you'll measure a difference.

For electronic components, it's a bit more difficult, because all specs are given 5-10% tolerance.

 

[FunkyMonkey]

More rubbish spoken here than a Tory speech on the economy.

I would suggest what hifi numptys call burn in is actually your brain getting used to the sound.

 

[DandyCobalt]

I seem to have stirred a wasp's nest on this.

I agree that it is really difficult (impossible?) to compare a sound you hear today, with one that you heard 1/5/50/100/300 hours before. Just like any memory process, what you remember can change over time, especially if constantly stimulated in a very subtly changing way (or not)?

That's why I asked the question, as I really wanted to do an A/B test of the two sets of power amps. Is the upgrade really worth (for me) approx £2,500 ??

Anyway, academic now, as I changed them straightaway and I hear a nice difference - the sound seems more forward and wider, the different layers and instruments are more defined in a nice way.

Has this issue been covered by WHFSV in a Big Question at some point? Or informally even after a few beers at WHF manor on a slow Friday afternoon?)

 

[kevinJ]

More rubbish spoken here than a Tory speech on the economy. I would suggest what hifi numptys call burn in is actually your brain getting used to the sound.

How can a brain adapt to sound when you don't listen to it for a few days while the signal is flowing?

 

[CJSF]

Perhaps it is the individual, may be some people are more perceptive than others or worry about these changes more? I know I can hear a change in my system over 12 hours from day to day, it cant be the hifi component, nothing that new, therefore, probably the mains supply, how about air presure, bing British, we love to atribut things to the weather?

There are dagers drawn over cables, running in? I'm sceptical but different sounds, I know cables sound different and not the more expensive the better either.

The whole thing is subjective, mechanical needs running in, electrical, I doubt it? . . . but give it all a few hours, just in case, then enjoy.

CJSF

 

[Anonymous]

As an electrical and electronic engineer with more years experience than I care to admit, I would just love for someone to explain to me in scientific terms exactly what takes place during this so called "burning in" process, and exactly how any changes that might take place impact upon the quality of the sound produced by the system.

yours in anticipation, psijaka

 

[Covenanter]

As an electrical and electronic engineer with more years experience than I care to admit, I would just love for someone to explain to me in scientific terms exactly what takes place during this so called "burning in" process, and exactly how any changes that might take place impact upon the quality of the sound produced by the system.

yours in anticipation, psijaka

You won't get an answer!

Chris

 

[andyjm]

As an electrical and electronic engineer with more years experience than I care to admit, I would just love for someone to explain to me in scientific terms exactly what takes place during this so called "burning in" process, and exactly how any changes that might take place impact upon the quality of the sound produced by the system.

yours in anticipation, psijaka

Nothing happens to the electronics, the sound remains exactly the same, but the listener gets used to the sound.

It is remarkable how in every field except hifi, the subjective nature of human perception is accepted. For example, drug companies go to extraordinary lengths in drug trials to try and overcome biases.

However, in hifi, 'I know what I heard' trumps any amount of rational argument or scientific analysis.

 

[drummerman]

I seem to have stirred a wasp's nest on this.

Not really. This argument has been going on for as long as I can remember, pops up every few weeks and usually ends the same way ... with a locked thread.

Every camp, the ones that think they can hear changes and the ones that dont usually voice their opinions with little respect for the other one, often using insults. No one likes to admit they may be wrong and everyone is suddenly an expert in mechanical and electronic engineering as well as psycho accoustics (yes, I am as guilty as the lady standing next to me).

There will never be a consensus. One of the joys of this hobby.

regards

 

[Phileas]

unless you are a metallurgical engineer/expert or have designed every component in your hifi from the ground up can you say for certain that certain changes do not occur when 'running-in' electronics components or even cables?

I'm with eggontoast here, why should any changes always lead to an improvement?

Also, how does an audio engineer design a circuit to take advantage of the ageing process if these changes are not part of the component specifications?