Setting up a sub with a stereo setup

[insider9]

As part of my big experiment and possible revamp I decided to try a sub. Got myself a small REL Quake (one for now) as the room isn't big. Could anyone give me any pointers as to setup, please? As it stands its connected to pre outs on the amp using subs crossover. Later on it's possible that I'll use it with an active crossover and dsp. Using with spikes on a carpet and position determined by room sim in REW though ideal placement is not yet available. Undecided on crossover point... Measurements with REW are at the minute about - 7db at 20Hz vs 40Hz. I know this is a 'baby' sub with 8 inch driver but wanted to try what it would be like and achieving flat response down to 20Hz isn't a goal. Rather seeing how standmount + sub would go against floorstanders. Thanks

 

[Vladimir]

I'd just cut it at 80Hz and set volume at the exact point where I can no longer localize it by listening. If you can 'hear' the sub, its not set right.

 

[Al ears]

I'd just cut it at 80Hz and set volume at the exact point where I can no longer localize it by listening. If you can 'hear' the sub, its not set right.

Don't do it....... Oh, you did.....

What Vladimir says... ;-)

As an aside the EB2's from your good self, whilst excellent in my listening room, are about to be replaced ....by the floorstanding Acoustic Zen Adagios that I still have. Whilst ideally suited to my room size and layout they just didn't give the bass response I had become acustomed to.... just spoilt I guess.

 

[insider9]

I'd just cut it at 80Hz and set volume at the exact point where I can no longer localize it by listening. If you can 'hear' the sub, its not set right.

Quite right and that's what I'm trying to avoid. Speakers go flat to 50Hz though so would this normally be where you crossover?

The good thing is I cannot localise the sub other than say feel a kick drum. Must say that's rather nice as I used to be quite a lot around instruments so appreciate that. At the same time wondering that if I can feel it is it not too loud *scratch_one-s_head*

Also I can hear there's more bottom end but definition isn't quite as good as I'd like. Don't expect miracles with a budget purchase but without any experience I'm not sure what's achievable. Read about people using granite slabs, etc.

 

[insider9]

I'd just cut it at 80Hz and set volume at the exact point where I can no longer localize it by listening. If you can 'hear' the sub, its not set right.

Don't do it....... Oh, you did.....

What Vladimir says... ;-)

As an aside the EB2's from your good self, whilst excellent in my listening room, are about to be replaced ....by the floorstanding Acoustic Zen Adagios that I still have. Whilst ideally suited to my room size and layout they just didn't give the bass response I had become acustomed to.... just spoilt I guess.

Really? Wow. I'm doing my best to utilise Rosebuds best I can hence the experiment with a sub. Must say didn't expect I was missing anything until I switched the sub off...

I remember you said you used a sub with them also. Any tips? Or is it too room specific?

EDIT

Seemorebbts was singing a high praise for EB2s... are you going to keep them?

 

[insider9]

I'd just cut it at 80Hz and set volume at the exact point where I can no longer localize it by listening. If you can 'hear' the sub, its not set right.

Don't do it....... Oh, you did.....

What Vladimir says... ;-)

As an aside the EB2's from your good self, whilst excellent in my listening room, are about to be replaced ....by the floorstanding Acoustic Zen Adagios that I still have. Whilst ideally suited to my room size and layout they just didn't give the bass response I had become acustomed to.... just spoilt I guess.

Really? Wow. I'm doing my best to utilise Rosebuds best I can hence the experiment with a sub. Must say didn't expect I was missing anything until I switched the sub off...

I remember you said you used a sub with them also. Any tips? Or is it too room specific?

Very room specific, and very sub specific. There are those that swear if you are going to do it right then employ two small subs, built with music in mind rather than home theatre, positioned by speakers rather than one large one thrown in a corner, however I cannot comment on this as not tried it.

PS, I had a REL T-zero

Best of luck with your endeavours

Thank you!

 

[Al ears]

I'd just cut it at 80Hz and set volume at the exact point where I can no longer localize it by listening. If you can 'hear' the sub, its not set right.

Don't do it....... Oh, you did.....

What Vladimir says... ;-)

As an aside the EB2's from your good self, whilst excellent in my listening room, are about to be replaced ....by the floorstanding Acoustic Zen Adagios that I still have. Whilst ideally suited to my room size and layout they just didn't give the bass response I had become acustomed to.... just spoilt I guess.

Really? Wow. I'm doing my best to utilise Rosebuds best I can hence the experiment with a sub. Must say didn't expect I was missing anything until I switched the sub off...

I remember you said you used a sub with them also. Any tips? Or is it too room specific?

Very room specific, and very sub specific. There are those that swear if you are going to do it right then employ two small subs, built with music in mind rather than home theatre, positioned by speakers rather than one large one thrown in a corner, however I cannot comment on this as not tried it.

PS, I had a REL T-zero purely for its speed and quality rather than ability to shake walls.

Best of luck with your endeavours

 

[Al ears]

I'd just cut it at 80Hz and set volume at the exact point where I can no longer localize it by listening. If you can 'hear' the sub, its not set right.

Don't do it....... Oh, you did.....

What Vladimir says... ;-)

As an aside the EB2's from your good self, whilst excellent in my listening room, are about to be replaced ....by the floorstanding Acoustic Zen Adagios that I still have. Whilst ideally suited to my room size and layout they just didn't give the bass response I had become acustomed to.... just spoilt I guess.

Really? Wow. I'm doing my best to utilise Rosebuds best I can hence the experiment with a sub. Must say didn't expect I was missing anything until I switched the sub off...

I remember you said you used a sub with them also. Any tips? Or is it too room specific?

EDIT

Seemorebbts was singing a high praise for EB2s... are you going to keep them?

Oh yes, they are very good indeed and, at some point the floorstanders may have to go.... that's WAF for you.

 

[Vladimir]

I'd just cut it at 80Hz and set volume at the exact point where I can no longer localize it by listening. If you can 'hear' the sub, its not set right.

Quite right and that's what I'm trying to avoid. Speakers go flat to 50Hz though so would this normally be where you crossover?

The good thing is I cannot localise the sub other than say feel a kick drum. Must say that's rather nice as I used to be quite a lot around instruments so appreciate that. At the same time wondering that if I can feel it is it not too loud *scratch_one-s_head*

Also I can hear there's more bottom end but definition isn't quite as good as I'd like. Don't expect miracles with a budget purchase but without any experience I'm not sure what's achievable. Read about people using granite slabs, etc.

You can do 2 things with a subwoofer, 1) augment main speakers with sub bass, or 2) combine them thus relieving some of the bass duty to the subwoofer, and optionally also get sub-bass.

Considering there wont be much sub bass coming out of an 8" subwoofer, I presumed you simply want to take the bass burden of your Rosebuds and get cleaner midrange from them. Taking anything bellow 80Hz from the small midbass driver really helps it do its best with lower midrange where a lot of musical information lies (unlike bellow 80Hz).

The Rosebuds are bass reflex in order to get some reasonable bass out of them in a small package (5"), and have some usable efficiency with average amplification. The aforementioned EB Acoustics are sealed design, bigger custom midbass driver (6.88"), different animal altogether. I wouldn't use a sub with those in a 15x20x8 room.

 

[Al ears]

Just to clarify we were both talking about sub with the Rosebuds, me being the previous owner of same ( also ex davedotco) .

 

[insider9]

I presumed you simply want to take the bass burden of your Rosebuds and get cleaner midrange from them. Taking anything bellow 80Hz from the small midbass driver really helps it do its best with lower midrange where a lot of musical information lies (unlike bellow 80Hz). 

That's the one of the solutions I'm considering. That would mean keeping Rosebuds intact and running 2 subs. With Minidsp doing room correction and crossover.

Another option I want to try is fully active diy floorstanders

 

[Andrewjvt]

Hi

First off: id like to say if its more bass slam you want go for floorstanders or larger driver standmounts.

If its not an option and a sub is a must then as all gave said before correct set up is a must.
Read the rel manual regarding the best way to wire up and connect.

Im no expert on sun set up yet myself but i will say overlapping the lower frequency may have the opposite effect your after.

Like vlad says a sub should be subtle felt not heard.
Ill be watching this thread closely also for tips.

Would a db meter be any use?
My friend has dirac mic and rew though

 

[insider9]

Yes, I'm able to measure frequency response which helps a lot. But with no prior experience with subs it feels like there's a big difference in amount of bass to what I'm used to. I don't want to go overboard.

Especially the feeling of bass which is wonderful and unsettling at the same time. Listening to Christine and the Queens at present and the sub makes a huge difference.

Is this normal that it improved imaging? Or is it just placebo?

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Listening to Christine and the Queens at present and the sub makes a huge difference.

Hi insider9

Good on you for trying for trying a sub. When dialled in the effect is profound.

Btw, please also try Letting Go, Nadia and Anthem Without Nation by Nitin Sawhney and Common Exchange and Professional Loving by Emika. Fwiw, these are the tracks i use as part of the end process of dialing in a sub or subs.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[Andrewjvt]

Yes, I'm able to measure frequency response which helps a lot. But with no prior experience with subs it feels like there's a big difference in amount of bass to what I'm used to. I don't want to go overboard.

Especially the feeling of bass which is wonderful and unsettling at the same time. Listening to Christine and the Queens at present and the sub makes a huge difference.

Is this normal that it improved imaging? Or is it just placebo?

Not sure
But extra bass is not all about boom boom

Some say more realism. As it adds to the whole presentation.
Things you wont think of like a singers voice and the style of strumming etc
these all have an influence imo if set up correct.

On movies its a whole different matter as low frequency effects are thrown in and thats when subs become fun

 

[insider9]

Listening to Christine and the Queens at present and the sub makes a huge difference.

Hi insider9

Good on you for trying for trying a sub. When dialled in the effect is profound.

Btw, please also try Letting Go, Nadia and Anthem Without Nation by Nitin Sawhney and Common Exchange and Professional Loving by Emika. Fwiw, these are the tracks i use as part of the end process of dialing in a sub or subs.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Nice recommendations, thanks Rick!

 

[nopiano]

Listening to Christine and the Queens at present and the sub makes a huge difference.

Hi insider9

Good on you for trying for trying a sub. When dialled in the effect is profound.

Btw, please also try Letting Go, Nadia and Anthem Without Nation by Nitin Sawhney and Common Exchange and Professional Loving by Emika. Fwiw, these are the tracks i use as part of the end process of dialing in a sub or subs.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Nice recommendations, thanks Rick!

Agreed! Am listening now. No interest in subs, though when using for hone cinema I always turned it down until barely noticeable. It should be obvious if turned off, but not at a "listen to that bass!" volume.