Set up problems

[adamrhys]

I am a total newbie to turntables, but have taken the plunge as I'm desperate to listen to my Dad's old vinyl collection as I did when I was a child.

I bought a Project Essential II at Richer Sounds on Saturday, and have come across two major issues during set up:

1. Having balanced the arm and applied the recommended downforce as per the manual, when I add the anti-skate weight, it pulls the arm sharply off the record, away from the centre. It simply won't stay on.

2. When retunring the lid to closed position, the counter wieght on the rear of the arm is protruding beyond back of the table and is pushed forward by the lid during closing. This means that I have to balance it afresh each time I take the lid off.

This all sounds like the purpose built shelf in my man cave is not level, but I took great pains to make sure that it is. A spirit level on the table and platter show that it is true.

The table I bought was ex display, so could it be in some way damaged, or am I just missing something? I have watched every Project set up video I could find on YouTube, and so I'm sure I'm doing it as instructed.

Anyone have any ideas?

Many thanks, Adam

 

[Al ears]

I am a total newbie to turntables, but have taken the plunge as I'm desperate to listen to my Dad's old vinyl collection as I did when I was a child.

I bought a Project Essential II at Richer Sounds on Saturday, and have come across two major issues during set up:

1. Having balanced the arm and applied the recommended downforce as per the manual, when I add the anti-skate weight, it pulls the arm sharply off the record, away from the centre. It simply won't stay on.

2. When retunring the lid to closed position, the counter wieght on the rear of the arm is protruding beyond back of the table and is pushed forward by the lid during closing. This means that I have to balance it afresh each time I take the lid off.

This all sounds like the purpose built shelf in my man cave is not level, but I took great pains to make sure that it is. A spirit level on the table and platter show that it is true.

The table I bought was ex display, so could it be in some way damaged, or am I just missing something? I have watched every Project set up video I could find on YouTube, and so I'm sure I'm doing it as instructed.

Anyone have any ideas?

Many thanks, Adam

Without seeing actual device I'd say you have a fault there. The lid should not touch counterweight and bias will only effect arm like that if tracking force is incorrect. Note with my old Rega the bias was best at half the recommended value. The counterweight should not be that far back if it is catching the lid, suggesting you have no downforce applied, which is why bias is affecting the tonearm like that. I assume it has the standard cartridge fitted. The best way to check downforce on any turntable is to get a cheap set of digital scales which I highly recommend.

Personally I think a trip back to Richer Sounds is required.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

I reckon the counter wieght is way too far back ....take your time and screw the weight on until well on the arm and then take it back a couple of turns and proceed with setting up the balance of cartridge and weight until both are at an equilibrium,,,,then turn the dial at the front of the weight to zero carefully making sure not to add or lose any weight,so in efect you are holding the weight tight with one hand(as not to gain or subtract balance weight to the arm)while zero ing the dial,then dial in the appropriate cartridge weight specified by the manufacturer of the cartridge by turning the counter weight along with the dial this time to the desired balance weight,hope this helps,it is the best i can probably explain,i'm sure others can probably offer a simpler put explanation.But as Al say's if you're not too sure about setting it up or a fault has occured...get it back to the shop and they should put things right for you without any hassle.

 

[Al ears]

I reckon the counter wieght is way too far back ....take your time and screw the weight on until well on the arm and then take it back a couple of turns and proceed with setting up the balance of cartridge and weight until both are at an equilibrium,,,,then turn the dial at the front of the weight to zero carefully making sure not to add or lose any weight,so in efect you are holding the weight tight with one hand(as not to gain or subtract balance weight to the arm)while zero ing the dial,then dial in the appropriate cartridge weight specified by the manufacturer of the cartridge by turning the counter weight along with the dial this time to the desired balance weight,hope this helps,it is the best i can probably explain,i'm sure others can probably offer a simpler put explanation.

Agree there is something very amiss with his tracking force. If a complete newbie as he says, the best way to resolve problem is to take it back and have them set it up. Might have been nice if they did this at the outset don't you think?

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

yes Al I agree .

 

[Al ears]

yes Al I agree .

Here's hope the OP actually comes back with a situation report.

 

[Lost Angeles]

yes Al I agree .

Here's hope the OP actually comes back with a situation report.

But they hardly ever do.

 

[adamrhys]

Thanks Al, good advice, I've ordered a scale from Amazon.

I called Richer Sounds and they said to bring it back in! They said I shouldn't have needed to mess with the arm as they had it set up correctly in the shop. If only they'd said that when I picked it up...

I can't go in until Wednesday, but I'll let you know how I get on.

 

[Al ears]

Thanks Al, good advice, I've ordered a scale from Amazon.

I called Richer Sounds and they said to bring it back in! They said I shouldn't have needed to mess with the arm as they had it set up correctly in the shop. If only they'd said that when I picked it up...

I can't go in until Wednesday, but I'll let you know how I get on.

That's good of them. Yes, pity they didn't tell you. ;-)

The scales come in handy if you ever change or upgrade your cartridge, very useful bit of kit that doesn't need to cost the earth.

Let us know how you get on and I hope you can soon hear those LPs again. Which amplifier are you using? I hope it has an inbuilt phono stage.

 

[Lost Angeles]

yes Al I agree .

Here's hope the OP actually comes back with a situation report.

But they hardly ever do.

And I pick a post from the one who does reply. Sincere apologies Adam.

 

[friendly_ghost]

Just to be sure, when you set the correct weight, does the weight move forward or backward (to the needle or away from it)?
It could just be that you're turning in the wrong direction (or that your weight is on backwards).

I've made this mistake on my first try to set up a turntable, so not too far fetched I would think.

 

[adamrhys]

I did not take the TT back into Richer Sounds, largely because I thought I'd cracked it, and also because I didn't want to have to pack it all back up in the box, plus my digital scale was arriving at some point yesterday.

Ther reason I thought I'd cracked it was when I looked again I realised that I was having to move the counterwieght so far back on the arm to balance it, that it was basically detaching from the arm. Then when I turn it to set the downforce, it was basically just turning in situ, rather than advancing down the arm, so there was very little downforce being added, hence the anti skate weight having such a great effect on it, and the counterwieght being so far back that it was interfering with the lid.

So, I thought once the digital scale arrived I'd be able to set the downforce correctly and all would be well.

It was not. In order to get the digital scale to read 1.75g (manufacturers recommended setting for the Ortofon OM 5e), again the counterweight was so far back on the arm, it was interfering with the lid. Bringing the counterweight forward far enough to allow the lid to close puts a full 20g of downforce on the arm!

So there is still something wrong somewhere, and so I will need to box it up and take it down to Richer Sounds.

So far my introduction to the world of Hi Fi has not been a happy one.

 

[brownz]

If you can't get it to balance and it is continuously spinning on the mounting rod, It sounds like they may have supplied the wrong counterweight with the TT (what with it being ex-display).

The standard counterweight is 65g and should have 00 stamped on the back of it.

Some piccies here : https://www.dropbox.com/sh/00vulr3mx19sqiy/AABd0XtAotxI7bIB55VFzxM4a?dl=0

 

[Al ears]

If you can't get it to balance and it is continuously spinning on the mounting rod, It sounds like they may have supplied the wrong counterweight with the TT (what with it being ex-display).

The standard counterweight is 65g and should have 00 stamped on the back of it.

Some piccies here : https://www.dropbox.com/sh/00vulr3mx19sqiy/AABd0XtAotxI7bIB55VFzxM4a?dl=0

Agreed, you may have the 75g counterweight attached but it still sounds strange. Take it back.

 

[adamrhys]

Thanks Brownz, that's really interesting. I took the counterweight off to have a look and it has 08 on the back, so it's the 55g weight.

This would explain why I have to take it so far back to balance the arm, and why it is interfering with the lid.

Richer Sounds did say it was 'sold as seen' so I can't imagine they would provide me with another weight, but I can ask.

My woes continue, as the digital scale I bought is clearly rubbish. I weighed the counterweight on my digital kitchen scales and it came up as 56g (close enough), but when I put it on the digital scale I'd bought for measuring the downforce on the tone arm, it said 286g!! Clearly that is going to have to go back too...

 

[brownz]

Heh, yeah, the eBay scales are a bit of pot luck. I bought a couple about two years ago (one for home one for work) and iirc they were about £7 each and they've been spot on.

Richer Sounds should be accomodating if you explain what they have done, hopefully they'll have a little collection out the back of the shop and will just swap it. The 55g 08 counterweight is standard on the Debut Carbon range.

If you don't get anywhere then there is a certain company that distributes Pro-Ject TT in the UK that will have them on the shelf and you may be able to find them on their website under turntable spares, but I can't mention who that may be to keep the admins happy ;-)

 

[Deleted member 108165]

Thanks Brownz, that's really interesting. I took the counterweight off to have a look and it has 08 on the back, so it's the 55g weight.

This would explain why I have to take it so far back to balance the arm, and why it is interfering with the lid.

Richer Sounds did say it was 'sold as seen' so I can't imagine they would provide me with another weight, but I can ask.

My woes continue, as the digital scale I bought is clearly rubbish. I weighed the counterweight on my digital kitchen scales and it came up as 56g (close enough), but when I put it on the digital scale I'd bought for measuring the downforce on the tone arm, it said 286g!! Clearly that is going to have to go back too...

You've bought the wrong type of digital scale as the ones purely for turntable use will only measure up to 5g. Something like this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UK-Professional-Digital-Stylus-Force-Scale-Gauge-Precise-MC-MM-for-LP-Turntable-/191232661800?hash=item2c865ad928:g:bYcAAOSwR5dXRAVj

And the distributor for Pro-ject is: https://www.henleydesigns.co.uk/home-c1

Nice people to do business with... As are the people at Rega too.

 

[adamrhys]

Heh, yeah, the eBay scales are a bit of pot luck. I bought a couple about two years ago (one for home one for work) and iirc they were about £7 each and they've been spot on.

Richer Sounds should be accomodating if you explain what they have done, hopefully they'll have a little collection out the back of the shop and will just swap it. The 55g 08 counterweight is standard on the Debut Carbon range.

If you don't get anywhere then there is a certain company that distributes Pro-Ject TT in the UK that will have them on the shelf and you may be able to find them on their website under turntable spares, but I can't mention who that may be to keep the admins happy ;-)

I've just got off the phone with Richer Sounds, and lo and behold, they have a Debut Carbon in the shop with a 65g 00 counterweight on it!! I had to laugh!! Thanks Brownz, and everyone else, for all your help!

 

[brownz]

;-) Yay. Result !

I'm calling that weekend o'clock and time to go home. Have a good one everyone !