Question Set-up advice for first turntable, amp & speakers?

[npatyn]

Hi all,

I've been reading (and studying) for a few weeks now, but my first foray into hifi only seems to make things less clear

First some context: I have been listening to Sonos Play 3's for the last ten years or so. Strictly streaming Spotify, but due to the Sonos app mishap of last year (and still feeling it), I feel the need to return to physical media and a device that I can simply manipulate without an app.

So, I am now looking at a combination of a turntable, an amp (or receiver), and a set of (passive) bookshelf speakers. The budget is pretty tight (between €1200 & €1500; which translates into 1000 GBP - 1250 GBP) and it seems I want more than I can spend...

My research brought me to the following:

• Turntable: Pro-Ject Debut Carbon EVO (around €550)
• Amp: Yamaha A-S301 (around €350)
• or Receiver: Yamaha R-N600A (that would add Bluetooth, spotify & DAB radio to the mix) (around €650)
• Speakers:
  • If I go for the amp, I still have around €300 - €600 left
    • JBL Stage 240B (€380)
    • KEF Q150 (€300)
    • Dali Oberon 3 (€300)
    • Q Acoustics 3030i (€400)
    • Monitor Audio Bronze 100 (€525)
  • If I go for the receiver, there is €300 left. So that would limit the choice to just
    • KEF Q150 (€300)
    • Dali Oberon 3 (€300)

So, the questions I am stuck with:

1. Which of these three components is the most important (and thus should get the most of the budget?)
2. Are the amp or receiver a good match with the turntable?
3. Any objections against choosing a receiver instead of an amp (or vice versa)? My preference is the receiver, but open to arguments against it.
4. Any thoughts on the speakers? Others I should consider?

Thanks for reading this far, any feedback or input is greatly appreciated!

Niky

 

[twinkletoes]

hey up, welcome!

Tuntable, do you have any records? if not allocate all your budget to the amp and source/s. its taking up a large portion of your budget.

Personally speaking Id go with a completely "dumb" amp like a rotel a11mkii (just released) a nice honest amp! then add a streamer (wiim pro) and pick up a second hand DVD player, (they're a dim and dozen on on ebay these day) something like a pioneer 565a can be had here in the UK for 20 quid, its a wonderful sounding CD player in its own right and can play SACD's too if that takes your fancy. if you want to play CD's that is

kef go well with rotel as do B&W but id be inclined to get some wharfdale diamonds 12

UK pricing

699 for the rotel
200 for the wharfdales
and 140 quid for the wiim pro Or you could get a Schit modi 150 and stream from your TV using Apple TV 100quid, its what I do.
cd player AKA DVD player 20-50 quid
should come in around 1060

You could go for an older Rotel amp on ebay to make things really cheap Ra-02 100 quid or a newer ra12 250quid. You might want to also explore the world of used AVR's! Often over looked and sound fab, often put out to pasture simple because they don't have the latest specs, there loss is your gain. An Arcam AVR 300 will sound great and have all the digital connectivity you can shake a stick at, 150 quid, simply add an apple tv to the tv start streaming to your heart content. You just need speakers, pick your poison.

All my opinion and if you can listen to all options listed.

 

[Al ears]

Agree with the above.
Source is the most important and it's a pretty good turntable to start with.
I would ask again whether you actually own any vinyl as you cannot do it justice on the cheap.
Or, for a bit more, you could just go for something that was designed to work together such as this.
www.av.com/Hi-Fi/Pro-Ject-Colourful-Audio-System-Walnut/5NZG?origin=product-ads&msclkid=495eb4805b701367c184d364671a1de6&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PLA%20Shop%20%7C%20FGH%20%2B%20Micro%20Margin%20%7C%20Standard%20(%20MAX%20CPC%20)&utm_term=4576167421404155&utm_content=FGH%20%2B
Or this....
https://www.av.com/Hi-Fi/Pro-Ject-T...erm=4575892543531885&utm_content=All Products

 

[Integralista]

Hi, why not to consider system from analogue specialist Rega, Rega System One? It cost in my country 1300 Eur complete, including cartridge and speaker cables. Of course, amp, turntable and speakers are included. This system is awesome. For more info, pls. Look on Rega web: https://www.rega.co.uk/products/Rega-System-One

And read review:

Rega System One review

Fuss-free and a glorious listen, Rega’s System One is the new entry-level vinyl system to beat

www.whathifi.com

BR.

 

[RTHerringbone]

I've also found in the past couple of weeks that my SONOS system is now fine, after having had a bunch of issues which were in part an awful app rollout (compounded with botched "updates") but also my home network was causing issues.

You may still be able to salvage that SONOS setup - make sure you have all the apps and products updated. I can now use the new app flawlessly to control both my newer Era 100 speakers, and my legacy PLAY:3 and SONOS One (gen 1) speakers.

 

[Fandango Andy]

Hi all,

I've been reading (and studying) for a few weeks now, but my first foray into hifi only seems to make things less clear

First some context: I have been listening to Sonos Play 3's for the last ten years or so. Strictly streaming Spotify, but due to the Sonos app mishap of last year (and still feeling it), I feel the need to return to physical media and a device that I can simply manipulate without an app.

So, I am now looking at a combination of a turntable, an amp (or receiver), and a set of (passive) bookshelf speakers. The budget is pretty tight (between €1200 & €1500; which translates into 1000 GBP - 1250 GBP) and it seems I want more than I can spend...

My research brought me to the following:

• Turntable: Pro-Ject Debut Carbon EVO (around €550)
• Amp: Yamaha A-S301 (around €350)
• or Receiver: Yamaha R-N600A (that would add Bluetooth, spotify & DAB radio to the mix) (around €650)
• Speakers:
  • If I go for the amp, I still have around €300 - €600 left
    • JBL Stage 240B (€380)
    • KEF Q150 (€300)
    • Dali Oberon 3 (€300)
    • Q Acoustics 3030i (€400)
    • Monitor Audio Bronze 100 (€525)
  • If I go for the receiver, there is €300 left. So that would limit the choice to just
    • KEF Q150 (€300)
    • Dali Oberon 3 (€300)

So, the questions I am stuck with:

1. Which of these three components is the most important (and thus should get the most of the budget?)
2. Are the amp or receiver a good match with the turntable?
3. Any objections against choosing a receiver instead of an amp (or vice versa)? My preference is the receiver, but open to arguments against it.
4. Any thoughts on the speakers? Others I should consider?

Thanks for reading this far, any feedback or input is greatly appreciated!

Niky

These are UK prices, they may be priced differently where you are.

You are probably spending too much of the budget on the turntable. Take a look at the Pro-Ject E1 - £229.

It may be a little long in the tooth, but I think the Marantz PM6007 is still the best amp you can buy for the money - £349

Speakers are very personal. You really need to listen to them for yourself, ideally at home. I like the Triangle Borea BR03 - £399. Alternativly, I haven't heard the q acoustics 3010c or Monitor Audio Bronze 50 (both around £299) but they have been well reviewed.

If you go with all my reconditions, you up to £977. The fact you are looking at receivers suggests you are still thinking of streaming. a WiiM Mini - £89 should do the job. Use it with the amps DAC, not the internal one in the WiiM.

This gives you less than £200 to spend on a CD player, this gives you three options: 1, a budget CD Player. 2, a cheep DVD or Bluray player (use the digital out into the amps DAC so you are just using the player as a transport). 3, a second hand CD player. I would go option 3.

 

[npatyn]

Hi all,

Thanks for the feedback all! Some interesting perspectives, exactly what I hoped to find here 👍

@twinkletoes & @Fandango Andy
First of all: yes, I have some vinyl sitting in a box since the late 80's. But I'm also planning to buy some new ones along the way. I definitely do have a buying list. CD's are all gone, sold during the last few decades. So CD or DVD option doesn't seem to be an option for me.

@RTHerringbone The Sonos might indeed be finally fixed, but it was a stark reminder how lost we are if the software fails us. So that is what made me reconsider the "all digital" approach and look towards "simple" analogue devices.

@all_ears I did spot that one and was planning to buy it, but then I heard it in the store. The sales person then switched the speakers to a pair of B&W 607 S3 (also connected to the Pro-Ject MaiA S3) and it was such a clear step up in sound (at least to my ears). So that's why I'm back to the drawing board...

@Integralista That is also why I'm no longer looking at combinations like the Rega System One. I would rather buy separate devices from different brands, because you can't be excellent in everything (in my budget range).

So, if I'm reviewing all of the feedback I can conclude:
- Most of the budget to the player & amp
- Amp with a separate streamer, rather than a receiver
- Speakers can be almost anything

Maybe some extra information: footprint and looks are also a point of discussion here in the house So the less "boxes" the better, and ideally we stay away from black finishes, so speakers are pretty limited to wood-finish.

Doesn't make it easier, does it?

 

[npatyn]

Also, just saw this one: https://www.whathifi.com/hi-fi/weve...m-for-vinyl-streaming-and-even-headphone-fans
Might this be a route as well?

 

[RTHerringbone]

I'd definitely take some of @Fandango Andy 's advice and consider the WiiM Mini and Marantz PM6007 to give yourself relatively low cost but perfectly capable streamer / amp options for about £440 in total.

Speakers really are best listened to in the flesh if you can, and you may also need to consider the cost of stands as you've mentioned bookshelf speakers, but not where they'll be placed. Many are "fine" literally placed on surfaces or in bookshelves, but will almost always benefit from being on dedicated stands.

Are you able to get to a store to listen to things? It's very easy to reel off a list of things in budget, but matching them is a different challenge because some components work better with others.

What you're doing is pretty similar to what I've just done, and my initial budget got totally destroyed by upgrade-itis. Do bear that in mind, because if there is headroom in the budget, then it's easier and cheaper to consider pricier options straight away, rather than in a few months.....

 

[npatyn]

Yeah, we have two stores nearby that are specialized in Hifi. So I'll be heading there, once I have a better idea of what I'm going for (amp & streamer or receiver, budget left for speakers, which turntable...).

Maybe it is an idea to start with decent amp & streamer (or receiver) and a set of great speakers, and keep the turntable on a low budget for now (like the Pro-Ject E1 or T1). To see how often I'll put on a record, and how much new vinyl I'll buy in the end...

 

[RoA]

If you work with a limited budget it is almost always better to look for s/h bargains. It will get you much more unless you need the re-assurance of warranties.

 

[RTHerringbone]

Yeah, we have two stores nearby that are specialized in Hifi. So I'll be heading there, once I have a better idea of what I'm going for (amp & streamer or receiver, budget left for speakers, which turntable...).

Maybe it is an idea to start with decent amp & streamer (or receiver) and a set of great speakers, and keep the turntable on a low budget for now (like the Pro-Ject E1 or T1). To see how often I'll put on a record, and how much new vinyl I'll buy in the end...

Having stores nearby is great, so I think the best thing to do is visit both and make them earn their wages!

I think an important thing to do is really consider how important the turntable is, because if it's something that ends up gathering dust, then that's money you could have spent on the amp / speakers instead, and every euro counts to maximise the benefits at every budget, especially the so-called but still expensive "entry level".

 

[npatyn]

If you work with a limited budget it is almost always better to look for s/h bargains. It will get you much more unless you need the re-assurance of warranties.

I've been thinking about that as well, but am hesitant because it is hard to know how it was treated...
It also feels like missing out feature-wise, since it all seems to be developing quite fast. Especially when talking about streamers, bluetooth, wifi, etc...

 

[npatyn]

I thought I would give you an update, as I went to one of the shops to discuss the idea and see what options they propose.

One idea was to have a Yamaha MusicCast Vinyl 500 (which also covers streaming) and feed it into a set of Klipsch The Fives. That would bring the cost to €649 for the turntable + €799 for the Fives (total = €1448).

That felt a bit expensive for having an all-in-one solution, so I asked to see if there are other options where things are kept more separate.
In that discussion the usual suspects came up in regards to the speakers (Q acoustics Q3020i at €379) and amps (Yamaha A-S201 at €239).
As for turntables they steered me away from Pro-Ject and more towards Music Hall mmf Mark 1 & Rekkord F300 (respectively €499 & €599)
For the streaming part, the WiiM Pro at €179 was proposed.
Total = €1296-€1396

I'm not sure how well the turntables are received and reviewed? Still thinking of a cheaper Pro-Ject instead and putting the money towards the speakers and amplifier?

Any thoughts from you guys (and gals)?

 

[matthewpianist]

You won't beat the Rega System One mentioned earlier in this thread, for the money. The P1 is a solid starter turntable, the io amp is in a different league to any price-competitive product, and the Kytes are beautifully balanced and engaging. The amp and speakers are more than good enough to show any future upgrades to the turntable, whether that be a change of cartridge or a move up to a P3.

 

[ijohn]

LOTS of great replies! But just to give you even MORE to think about... LOL... I'd possibly consider a different path and go even further up the Yamaha line and get the R-N800a, and assemble everything else used. Here's why:
-If you buy everything new-ish now, everything you have will be entry-level. So when you eventually want to upgrade... and you will ("resistance is futile")... everything you bought will need to be upgraded. So start building the core of your system at least at the mid-fi level.
-The R-N800a has an upgraded DAC, more power, AND room correction. Now, in some rooms, particularly treated ones, room correction is no biggie. But in my room, it's a night and day difference. That's why I decided on the 800 after researching basically everything in my price range. I'm firm that it was the right decision. Your mileage may vary.
Note: since I'm am strictly digital I did not pay attention to phono input reviews when I was researching. That may change this part of the discussion entirely. Though so would a separate phono amp.
-I feel like the streaming amp is where the most progress has been made in the last few years. Speakers and turntables, not as much. So used speakers and turntables, IMO, are more likely to be more similar to what's available new. (Though I could be totally wrong on this.)
-System synergy. Because I decided at the start that I wanted a streaming amp, I didn't do much research on separates path. But if I had, system synergy would have needed to have been factored in. Yamaha has done that for you with the R-N receivers; and to critical acclaim.

Hope that helps. But far more importantly, you've received some stellar advice. Any of the routes taken, if well thought out, will land you with a really nice set-up far above what most people ever have. So whatever path you choose, don't overthink it. Just sit back and enjoy the hell of what you have. Cheers!

 

[gasolin]

Yamaha R-N600A don't have a good phono stage, even the r-n-800a isn't great, yes it works but isn't great

rotel a11mkii can't be recommended it's to me super bright sounding and lacks power

 

[gasolin]

Wiim amp pro

Turntable with built in phonostage

TT MK2

Experience unbeatable value with our turntable. Plug-and-play w/ built-in RIAA & pre-mounted cartridge to easily connect to any amplifier or active speakers.

argonaudio.com

Speakers wharfedale diamond 12.1 or 12.2 or q acoustics 3030i

you should be able to get it for 1000-1100 euros with quality cable might even be enough for a shelf and a better cartridge when buying diamond 12.1 speakers

 

[npatyn]

Thanks all for the extra food for thought