Seriously underwhelmed by amp upgrade.

[luckylion100]

OK, so it's really early days. I've ditched the trusty old Marantz PM 7000 in favour of the Roksan K2 amp. I now find myself rubbing my head wondering how on earth I can justify the expense considering the ever so slight improvement in sound quality.

I'm sure much of it is to do with source material and the fact the Roksan isn't run in. I received the Roksan this morning and it's been going since this afternoon but still I find myself somewhat deflated by the results. I've tried various cds ranging from Faith No More, Machinehead, Devin Townsend to quiter offerings from the like of Jeff Buckley, David Bowie and Cat Stevens. Rock or metal sounds muffled, congested and lacking definition. The most pleasing results are from the likes of Marillion's Fugazi and Script for a Jester's Tear albums (16/44.1 flac files) fed to the front usb port on my Pioneer N50. In fact I feel like I 'heard' Fugazi for the first time today after listening to it for 25 years!

I feel like I had a pretty decent set up before (sound wise to my ears) and now must rip it all up and start again. What bothers and confuses me is that there's little consistency here, file quality seems to make little difference, genre of music the same, it's just hit and miss.

The concept 20's are 2.5 metres apart, in corners but with 2 foot breathing space all around them, this positioning worked with Marantz amp. Do I need to consider speaker placement again because of the change of amp? Am I expecting too much too soon? All equipment is racked.

So for other novices like myself just a word of warning, don't feel that upgrade is always the best path, if you're happy with what you have, maybe it's wise to stick with it!

 

[Overdose]

OK, so it's really early days. I've ditched the trusty old Marantz PM 7000 in favour of the Roksan K2 amp. I now find myself rubbing my head wondering how on earth I can justify the expense considering the ever so slight improvement in sound .

I think like most people who are unhappy with their equipment after a purchase, your expectations have not been met. It is better to be honest with yourself at this point.
The improvements made by upgrading an amplifier are only really going to be noticed if the previous amp was not up to the task.
It could be that the new amp would be better able to get the most out of better speakers should you eventually go down that route, but then you are already on the never ending merry go round of upgrade pain.
The bottom line is that as far as equipment goes, it's only speakers really that make dramatic changes to how your system sounds.
Take the amp back for a refund.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

LOL....I had the same problem a few months ago.
eventually went back to my original set-up. Mine were the Audiolab 8200A & Rotel ra - 1520 to be fair the Rotel did improve and was getting there but the one day I decided to try the old amp just to see.

The difference was too great, the old Yammy DSP-AX620 sounded better and offered facilities the dedicated stereo amps could not and so the old amp stayed. Spent most of my time trying to get the 'upgrades' to sound like the old amp anyway.

Some will say you need to get "use" to the knew sound and it takes time for the amp to settle in, I don't believe that if your unhappy with the sound see if you can swap it before the 'grace period ends....

 

[plastic penguin]

OK, so it's really early days. I've ditched the trusty old Marantz PM 7000 in favour of the Roksan K2 amp. I now find myself rubbing my head wondering how on earth I can justify the expense considering the ever so slight improvement in sound quality.

I'm sure much of it is to do with source material and the fact the Roksan isn't run in. I received the Roksan this morning and it's been going since this afternoon but still I find myself somewhat deflated by the results. I've tried various cds ranging from Faith No More, Machinehead, Devin Townsend to quiter offerings from the like of Jeff Buckley, David Bowie and Cat Stevens. Rock or metal sounds muffled, congested and lacking definition. The most pleasing results are from the likes of Marillion's Fugazi and Script for a Jester's Tear albums (16/44.1 flac files) fed to the front usb port on my Pioneer N50. In fact I feel like I 'heard' Fugazi for the first time today after listening to it for 25 years!

I feel like I had a pretty decent set up before (sound wise to my ears) and now must rip it all up and start again. What bothers and confuses me is that there's little consistency here, file quality seems to make little difference, genre of music the same, it's just hit and miss.

The concept 20's are 2.5 metres apart, in corners but with 2 foot breathing space all around them, this positioning worked with Marantz amp. Do I need to consider speaker placement again because of the change of amp? Am I expecting too much too soon? All equipment is racked.

So for other novices like myself just a word of warning, don't feel that upgrade is always the best path, if you're happy with what you have, maybe it's wise to stick with it!

I would give a few extra days before deciding to ditch the amp; it can sometimes take a while to adjust to a different presentation.
Did you dem the amp or buy based on reviews?

 

[John Duncan]

Well I'm presuming he didn't buy it on looks...

 

[JoelSim]

Definitely give it a few days and a couple of nights with a bottle of red before making a decision.

 

[plastic penguin]

Well I'm presuming he didn't buy it on looks...

Forgot about the 1950s Caddy-chrome look.

 

[Ben123]

The PM7000 is an amazing amp, its that simple. Tried the PM pearl lite and roksan LIII but the PM7000 stood as champion and is still on my rack today. Im not sure if it will ever be replaced !

 

[luckylion100]

Hello again and thanks for all those that replied. Sorry I had to log off shortly after posting my original message.

Overdose;

I did wonder about whether the Concept 20's were the weak link in the chain and raised that question on here a couple of days ago. The general consensus of opinion was that they were up to the task (at present) obviously at a later date an upgrade should provide better sonic results.

Thompsonuxb;

Sadly there is no grace period concerning the purchase of the Roksan. It's brand new, full manufacturer guarantee but purchased through ebay, no returns accepted in this case. From my homework and I looked into where it was coming from, it was from a reputable supplier. The price was the deal breaker. I think with the new updated Roksan K2 soon to be made available, the original variety are being competitively priced.

plastic penguin;

I have no intention of ditching the amp, even if I could. The Roksan and I have a mutual commitment to one another now, we'll sort it, a musical marriage that will be made in heaven, even if it kills me! ;-)
This morning, I'm actually enjoying it. The sound presentation is very different to what I'm used to. I'm just trying not to focus on it that much but simply enjoy. Much warmer, richer, I think I maybe expected too much and my ears need to become accustomed. Last night whilst listening at relatively low volume I found the experience much more enjoyable than with the Marantz where I would continually have to keep on adjusting the volume .Much better detail at lower volume.
I've heard the Roksan in action before and was impressed, the reviews on WHF also suggested it was a good match for my Pioneer N-50. Couple that with the price I paid, it seemed to be a no brainer...

JoelSim;

A few glasses is definitely in order tonight, it's my birthday. I'll be knocking them back in celebration rather than drowning my sorrows! ;-) I'm sure the Roksan will warm to the occasion.

John Duncan;

I love the appearance of the K2, almost feels retro to me. I'm fed up of generic type black boxes with little character or individuality. I can't keep my eyes off it, it's a work of art. I've always gone for strange looking women as well! ;-)

Ben123

Re: The Marantz PM 7000. I was going to put mine on ebay as it's in mint condition but have decided to keep hold of it. Since my grass is always greener approach re the Roksan, my appreciation of the Pm 7000 has been renewed. I honestly didn't realise quite how good it was!

Again thanks for all the replies.

 

[KeithT]

I used to use a Roksan Kandy and my taste in music is as good/bad as yours rockout: ) and I never had any qualms about recommending their kit for rock music, I can't speak for the K2 but hang in there. It might be worth borrowing some different speakers on a demo.

 

[Ben123]

Amplifier tech matured a long time ago so definately keep the marantz. I ve considered selling mine several times when life gets too busy for hifi. But when i plug it all in again i get to rediscover how good it is.

If i was to upgrade i would try and obtain a PM7200 signature. It can operate in class a mode which everyone agrees sounds better than the standard class B of the pm7000. Copper chassic and a few other tweaks which are supposed to help.

I like the look of the roksans too but i was forunate to borrow my friends spare roksan amp. I prefered the marantz and so did my friend which saved me some cash.

 

[CarlDW]

I would stick with the Roksan for now - it will have a different presentation than the Marantz, whether it sounds better or not is up to you.

After a few more days it's abilities may become more apparent.

 

[MajorFubar]

Just in case you fal out of love with it again (but it would need to be fairly soon)

Sadly there is no grace period concerning the purchase of the Roksan. It's brand new, full manufacturer guarantee but purchased through ebay, no returns accepted in this case.

...this is NOT true. If you've bought a new item from a UK-based online trader, he is obliged to abide by UK laws and regulations, including those relating to Distant Selling. You are legally entitled to a 'cooling off' period where you can choose to reject the item in return for a refund providing you return it faultless as new. They can't just opt-out of their obligations by putting 'no returns' on an eBay listing.

 

[lpv]

Just in case you fal out of love with it again (but it would need to be fairly soon)

Sadly there is no grace period concerning the purchase of the Roksan. It's brand new, full manufacturer guarantee but purchased through ebay, no returns accepted in this case.

...this is NOT true. If you've bought a new item from a UK-based online trader, he is obliged to abide by UK laws and regulations, including those relating to Distant Selling. You are legally entitled to a 'cooling off' period where you can choose to reject the item in return for a refund providing you return it faultless as new. They can't just opt-out of their obligations by putting 'no returns' on an eBay listing.

+1.

However, "The UK Distance Selling Regulations don't apply to auction-style format listings on eBay"

... btw, Marantz simply makes some good sounding amps; surely Roksan too; Caspian M2? beautiful with the right speakers.

 

[TrevC]

Just in case you fal out of love with it again (but it would need to be fairly soon)

Sadly there is no grace period concerning the purchase of the Roksan. It's brand new, full manufacturer guarantee but purchased through ebay, no returns accepted in this case.

...this is NOT true. If you've bought a new item from a UK-based online trader, he is obliged to abide by UK laws and regulations, including those relating to Distant Selling. You are legally entitled to a 'cooling off' period where you can choose to reject the item in return for a refund providing you return it faultless as new. They can't just opt-out of their obligations by putting 'no returns' on an eBay listing.

+1.

However, "The UK Distance Selling Regulations don't apply to auction-style format listings on eBay"

... btw, Marantz simply makes some good sounding amps; surely Roksan too; Caspian M2? beautiful with the right speakers.

Yep, he should change his speakers if he wants a radical improvement. Even budget amps are excellent theses days.

 

[luckylion100]

You're correct the Roksan has a very different presentation and I believe I perhaps jumped the gun yesterday, was way too quick in my judgment. Today it's definitely growing on me, in leaps and bounds. So much warmer, the stereo imaging seems wider, fuller. With the Marantz I found the sweet spot/optimal listening position had to be sought and then stuck to, to get full benefit, narrower and much more precise. Sorry about the lack of technical discription when describing the sound. I could be talking nonsense but that's how it feels. I suppose it's all subjective really... I'm a hifi late developer but loving it.

Like I've said previously I now have a new found respect for the Marantz PM 7000 as a result of all this.

 

[luckylion100]

MajorFubur and TrevC

Returning the amp isn't going to be an issue, I'm embracing it fully now. Ebay is all very new to me, the trading regulations, consumers rights etc. The person I purchased the amp from seemed to have a profile like an individual selling a one off product but after doing some investigating it turns out this 'individual' had a retail outlet as well. It was well regarded online according to reviews from other customers on ebay and elsewhere online. I had no problem with the transaction at all, service, delivery etc were all good.

I cannot believe I'm thinking about upgrading speakers now! I've only had the Concept 20s a few months. But listening today made me realise this system could really go places with a better set of speakers.... all in good time though, I've got to pay for this lot first! It's lucky I'm a clean living, vice free soul (although women with questionable moral ethics come cheap), how else would I be able to pay my way through this hobby?! ;-)

 

[plastic penguin]

Just to add that before I purchsed the Leema I had Arcam amps for close on 17 years, and it took nearly 2 months to fully appreciate the Leema's talents. Sometimes the slow burners are the best options.

I've said for many years that amps that blow you away or instant fix are generally not a amp you can live with...

 

[luckylion100]

I agree, I liken it to a new album that seemingly takes an age to really appreciate but continually pulls you back in. 25 years later you're still listening...

 

[MajorFubar]

Just to add that before I purchsed the Leema I had Arcam amps for close on 17 years, and it took nearly 2 months to fully appreciate the Leema's talents. Sometimes the slow burners are the best options. I've said for many years that amps that blow you away or instant fix are generally not a amp you can live with...

You're right and sometimes I think it applies to more than just amps. For example I've found to my cost with speakers and source components which initially blind you with how incredibly revealing they are often sound far too analytical in the long term.

 

[plastic penguin]

I agree, I liken it to a new album that seemingly takes an age to really appreciate but continually pulls you back in. 25 years later you're still listening...

Personally I wasn't initially impressed with the Leema. Like most people I was playing favoured cds and vinyl and the uplift wasn't iniatially great. Then after a month or so - playing these albums - started to hear something different everytime I played them. "Wow, what's that." I remember Mrs. P doing some washing up and had 'Midsomeer Murders playing thru the amp. She shouted out, "get the washing in, it's starting to rain". Then I pointed out the rain she was hearing was from the TV programme.

Have no doubt within another couple of weeks you'll be bowled over.

 

[plastic penguin]

how else would I be able to pay my way through this hobby?! ;-)

Too true -- just make sure the hobby doesn't turn into an obsession.

 

[luckylion100]

A year ago I would have been absolutely bowled over with this system and the sound it produces. Actually I am!! I just intend to enjoy now...

One other thing the learning Roksan remote is pig to use, don't like it at al. Oh well,my Grandfather used to sa,y you can't please all the people, all the time.. ;-)

 

[JoelSim]

Good to hear, and happy birthday.

Thoughts about a new piece of kit cannot be made in one listening session. There are days when I can't get involved in music, and there are other days when I am totally immersed. Luckily the latter is by far the more regular...

Let us know how it goes.

 

[cse]

. I've said for many years that amps that blow you away or instant fix are generally not a amp you can live with...

Very good point.