September - the big question

[aliEnRIK]

Changing the mains cables made by FAR the biggest difference to 'cable changes' in my system. Followed by the conditioner then interconnects. Speaker cables came last (But still a fair difference to make them 'worthwhile')

Im not at all suprised the test went the way it did

 

[Alec]

pwiles1968:

It may have been that the first thing to be added to the system made the biggest difference...

Good point It could also have been them pesky acoustically and electrically treated demo rooms. Or fatigue from listening to the same 3 songs over and over. Or just because thats what happened - the differences were representative of those cables in that system, as your, and subsequent, interesting posts imply.

 

[Craig M.]

i might have read it wrong, but i was disappointed to see that the mains cables weren't tested without the conditioner in place. i would have been much more interested to see what the mains cable did on its own.

 

[Anonymous]

I've got a question about the September issue that I haven't seen raised elsewhere, so I'll put it in here.

Why does the price of the Denon receiver jump from a very reasonable £450 in the receiver group test to an outlandish £1910 in the system recomended at the end of the Blu-Ray players test?????

 

[Andrew Everard]

mr_whiffy:Why does the price of the Denon receiver jump from a very reasonable £450 in the receiver group test to an outlandish £1910 in the system recomended at the end of the Blu-Ray players test?????

In the system at the end of the speaker packages test? Yes, that's an error, for which we apologise. The price is £450.

 

[Anonymous]

Andrew Everard:

mr_whiffy:Why does the price of the Denon receiver jump from a very reasonable £450 in the receiver group test to an outlandish £1910 in the system recomended at the end of the Blu-Ray players test?????

In the system at the end of the speaker packages test? Yes, that's an error, for which we apologise. The price is £450.

Thanks Andrew, my mistake, I knew it was at the end of one of the tests. Thought it might have been another example of price increases due to the plummeting value of the £ against the Yen

Great read, keep up the good work

 

[Andrew Everard]

Thanks - I think that Denon must be jinxed, as the spec panel on the end of the receivers test is headed AVR-1909, which of course is also a mistake.

 

[GetCarter]

Andrew,

I would like to get a mains conditioner, and the Tacima seems really good value. But it (along with the majority of others) only comes with a 2m lead to the mains, I need about 3.5m, I have contacted Tacima's distributor (who was about as helpful as a chocolate teapot!) to ask is one extended the mains lead would this affect the quality of the sound improvement (either by replacing the whole of the lead to the distribution bit, or by adding a further standard extension lead.

Do you have any ideas about this?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Andrew Everard]

I'm sure if you extended the mains input cable using cable of the same type as that fitted as standard - it's a shielded type - it would have no adverse effect, although opening up the unit to do so would invalidate the warranty.

Using an extension lead and plugging the Tacima into that may not be as advisable, though the filtering in the unit would certainly make it better in such a configuration than a standard mains block.

 

[GetCarter]

Thanks for the prompt reply.

Having not seen one of these in the flesh, can you tell me if the mains cable looks fairly standard? or is a specialist item? It if fairly easy to get good quality mains cable from quality electrical suppliers such as TLS, but if it is a specialist type this may not be so easy, I would assume that due to the low cost of the Tacima, it would be a fairly standard type of cable.

 

[Andrew Everard]

It looks chunky but standard, but has foil shielding within.

 

[GetCarter]

Thanks, as it is relatively cheap to start with (£23 at Amazon), think I will have a bash, not a big investment if it doesn't work out.

 

[The_Lhc]

It does specifically state on the Tacima packaging NOT to cut the cord or remove the plug as the cable is shielded.

I have the opposite problem, a 2m lead when I only need 0.5m. I bought one last week, really only because I needed 6 sockets and I effectively got it free, so it was a bit of a no-brainer.

I can't really tell if it had any effect, sound-wise, partly because I've only listened to TV since I put it in, not music, and also because I got some decent stands for my speakers at the same time and I expect they'd have had a much bigger influence on the sound.

I really must listen to some music when I get home, haven't played anything for weeks...

 

[GetCarter]

Thanks 'the_lhc", I rather suspect that the statement about not cutting the cord is more to do with protecting themselves legally against people doing this, and doing it badly that it damages their kit. Or to do with the EU regs on electrical goods requiring moulded plugs and wires? Think I will still order one, and see what it looks like when I get it, as to whether I have a go at doing this.

 

[jaxwired]

I really like this new feature. However (of course I have a "however"), I wish that one of the system changes would involve "no change", to test for placebo effect. For instance, in this months test, each change involved a cable change. I would have like to see one of those "changes" be "no change" to see if similar comments about improved sound were ascribed to the unchanged system.

Obviously, this is would not be well received by the manufacturers, but it sure would be intresting to us readers...

 

[Messiah]

I agree. I would be very interesting to see the results from that!

 

[JoelSim]

jaxwired:
I really like this new feature.ÿ However (of course I have a "however"), I wish that one of the system changes would involve "no change", to test for placebo effect.ÿ For instance, in this months test, each change involved a cable change.ÿ I would have like to see one of those "changes" be "no change" to see if similar comments about improved sound were ascribed to the unchanged system.

Obviously, this is would not be well received by the manufacturers, but it sure would be intresting to us readers...

I think anyone who has invested in a new cable will tell you just how much difference they make.ÿ

 

[jaxwired]

JoelSim:

I think anyone who has invested in a new cable will tell you just how much difference they make.

Joel, I'm a big believer in interconnects and speaker cable, but the whole point of "The Big Question" is to get to the truth about SQ. Even you must admit that there exists at least 1 or 2 "snake oil" products right? So why not include a test for placebo? What's the down side to the reader?

 

[pwiles1968]

Not sure how Placebo comes in to it, we listened to 4 systems, we were told nothing about them or what if anything was being changed, we did not know whether any changes being made should have been for better or worse, I suppose they could have done a repeat of one of the systems as a base line? but as far as placebo goes that only works if you are expecting a specific outcome beforehand, we honestly had no clue what was being tested and what was going to happen it was about as blind as it gets.

 

[jaxwired]

pwiles1968:Not sure how Placebo comes in to it, we listened to 4 systems, we were told nothing about them or what if anything was being changed, we did not know whether any changes being made should have been for better or worse, I suppose they could have done a repeat of one of the systems as a base line? but as far as placebo goes that only works if you are expecting a specific outcome beforehand, we honestly had no clue what was being tested and what was going to happen it was about as blind as it gets.

I understand your point, and I do in fact believe cables make a difference in sound quality, however, I also think people are pre-disposed to hear a difference regardless of the change. All I'm suggesting is that one of the "system changes" be a "no change" where nothing changes to see if sound quality improvements are still detected during the "no change" change.

 

[idc]

PJPro:You know, three people are not considered a valid statistical population....

A bit late to the party and sorry about jumping back to start. I agree with PJPro, but, the test still adds more weight to the cables do make a difference side of the debate. That test is a part of a valid, evidenced consensus. The consensus being the likes of Heystaks test he linked to and other forum members own experiences (myself included).

Hopefully ( I dont think I have missed it) there will be further such Big Questions which include HDMI and USB cables!

 

[JoelSim]

jaxwired:JoelSim:
I think anyone who has invested in a new cable will tell you just how much difference they make.

Joel, I'm a big believer in interconnects and speaker cable, but the whole point of "The Big Question" is to get to the truth about SQ. Even you must admit that there exists at least 1 or 2 "snake oil" products right? So why not include a test for placebo? What's the down side to the reader?

Yes of course there are snake oil products out there, and there are mains cables that don't improve things, but I have some good ones that do.

 

[Craig M.]

i still can't believe they tested the mains cables plugged into a filter. if they wanted to prove that mains cables make a difference, why plug them into a filter? that means the filter could be responsible for the improvement and the cables could have done nothing. really interesting test, done badly. god i'm getting grumpy.

 

[Andrew Everard]

Craig M.:god i'm getting grumpy.

Never mind, only another week and there'll be a whole new Big Question to get steamed up about...

 

[aliEnRIK]

Craig M.:i still can't believe they tested the mains cables plugged into a filter. if they wanted to prove that mains cables make a difference, why plug them into a filter? that means the filter could be responsible for the improvement and the cables could have done nothing. really interesting test, done badly. god i'm getting grumpy.

I have to agree with that. Id have done one then/or the other