Roksan Kandy K2 Phono stage sounds worse than old creek 4140S2 phono- Tape out -Line in to Kandy

[blairz1]

I just got a 2 year old used Kandy K2, sounds fantastic with CD on my first night I was very impressed. Went to vinyl on the second night, wired up the phono stage and was dissapointed. Put the phono stage of my old Creek 4140S2 and tape out into the Kandy and it was remarkably better. My question... is it possible the phono stage of the Kandy needs to be run in to open up? The previous owner doenst use vinyl so its very likely never been used.

The creek was prevoiusly being used as phono amp, DAC and tuner switch into an 8wpc SET valve amp and making great sound with vinyl. I was hoping the Kandy would be much better from what I read about its phono stage.

Any ideas?

 

[Vladimir]

What is your cartridge model? MM/MC?

 

[Al ears]

He's got a Pro-ject Essential so assume it's fitted with Ortofon OMB 3E moving magnet.

Strange he's having this problem as all Roksan amps I have used have had very good phono stages (as you would expect from a turntable manufacturer).

I believe trying to compare a Roksan integrated to a Creek / SET setup is where he is going wrong.

 

[davedotco]

Back in the day the 4040s and 4140s had fine reputations and this had a lot to do with the quality of the phono stage. We would regularly demonstrate it against pretty much anything available, including such highly regarded models as Nytech, A&R, Naim Nait (1) and had a handful of records that were rather 'hot'.

Many amplifiers would audibly overload on 'loud bits' but we never found anything that could upset the Creek.

A long winded way of saying 'I'm not at all surprised'.

 

[blairz1]

Correct it is the Ortofon 3E MM. Its not that I am comparing the two differing Integrateds its comparing the Phono amp and then tape out of the Creek into the line in of the Roksan vs direct phono in of the Roksan. Its espeacially noticeable at lower listening levels with more detail from the Creek.

Might need more listening and play though a bunch of known records of varying styles to fully make up my mind (or ears). My main question is can the phono stage amp require some run in as you would need on most amps and speakers to get the best out of them?

 

[blairz1]

Thanks davedotco for you reply, I had read the Creek 4140S2 has a very good phono stage (I think internally swithcable for MM/MC) but I had also read very good things about the Roksan phono stage. So far the Roksan is a very impressive peice of gear and I had hoped to tidy a bit of the set-up with this integrated, it will stay messy if it sounds better as thats the goal.

 

[ISAC69]

I had the Roksan Kandy before , it's a great powerful amp but its phono stage and headphone input aren't very good , I was a bit disappointed from them .

 

[davedotco]

I had the Roksan Kandy before , it's a great powerful amp but its phono stage and headphone input aren't very good , I was a bit disappointed from them .

Interesting, I have not much enjoyed the Kandy on the occasions I have heard it, powerful enough but lacking subtlety and resolution I thought. A bit like a low res MP3, a lot of the low level detail and information missing.

That said, it needs some context, it is a lot better than many sub £1000 amplifiers that I have heard, though for me, that is not saying a lot.

The early Roksan (pre-power) amplifiers I thought very good, the monos were excellent and the stereo power amp pretty good value. The integrateds when they arrived (Caspian?) I thought dissappointing, perhaps OK if you want a very forthright powerful amp but that was all.

 

[luckylion100]

As much as I love my K2 I've recently found the headphone out to be very disappointing, so much so that I'm planning on reattaching my M-Audio USB Audiophile onto my laptop and using the headphone out on it instead. I've also found the replay of my vinyl through the phono out of the K2 to be something of a let down but put this down perhaps to my ancient turn table not being up to the job...

 

[Jim-W]

I've used a Kandy K2 for 3 years, maybe 4 I can't remember exactly. I used to think the phono stage was a bit lightweight, lacking bass depth and extension, but pretty good on detail. I was using pretty bright partnering equipment for aesthetic reasons, ie it suited the room better: Rega Rp1 and Monitor Audio Br5s. I decided to give some other stuff a go as I began using that room more frequently to listen to records. I hooked up an LP12 and some fairly ancient Mission 773i's. Needless to say the sound was transformed: richer, fuller, more bass weight, adequate detail and more presence. My conclusion was that the Kandy needs a record player with some clout and speakers that are a little more capable than the Br5's; in other words the Kandy is a capable performer but is sensitive to source and speakers. Hope that reassures you that the phono stage is decent.

 

[weddingblock6]

I have a Kandy KA1 mk3 (the model just before yours) that I've had from new. The reviews at the time all refered to a 'decent' phono stage and, given Roksan's pedigree with turntables, I assumed that 'decent would be good enough for me. However, when I finally dug out my old turntable from the loft and plugged it in, I found that the phono stage was not just bad, but truly shocking - so much so that I forked out £100 on a new stylus, convinced that the old one had been damaged.

Like you I found a temporary fix by using my old Sugden A25 amp as a phono stage, but in the long term, the only way forward for me was to buy a dedicated phono amp.

Maybe we've just been unlucky and suffered from poor quality control, or maybe Roksan just throw in any old phono stage just to add another light to the front of their amps.

You could try taking it to a Roksan dealer to have the phono stage repaired or replaced, but my advice would be to spend your cash on a decent phono amp instead.

Apparently there is a way to switch the phono input to line level if you want to use an outboard phono amp and have the correct LED lit up while you're listening to your vinyl, but this does involve fiddling around with the innards of the amp.

 

[blairz1]

Thanks for the response weddingblock6, I am tending to agree. I have gone back and forth to the point of being annoyed at fiddling with the RCA's and earth. Looks like the Creek 4140S2 will stay in my collection, seems crazy to power a full integrated to just be a phono amp.

There is also a much higher gain out of the creek, same volume level change to the phono out of the Creek and bang its loud clear and lovely with vocals, go back to the Roksan stand alone and its volume right up to get the same levels and without the detail. Lovely amp with CD but I am seeing the need for the seperate pre-amp for phono.

Is it possible that the creek is switched internally to the MC rather than MM? I might open to check to be sure, if it is then it sounds great.

 

[blairz1]

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