Rega Elex-R problem: sound bleeding into other inputs ???

[geek_boy_in]

Hello everyone - I hope you are doing well. I am a new member and recently have been doing a lot of research and purchasing for Hi-Fi gadgets for my listening pleasures. Now 2/3 weeks back I purchased a brand new Rega Elex-R amplifier to power my Magenepan 1.7i speakers. Just so that you know this Rega amp has got 5 inputs. Input 1 is for Phono. Input 2 through 5 is for external sounds sources to connect through RCA cables.

Now here is the issue I am facing: If I connect my music source through DAC to Rega's Input 2. Select the Rega to Input 1 or Input 3 and increase the volume of Rega towards the high maximum (say towards the last 3/4th of the volume dial) then I can hear the music bleeding from Input 1 in faint volume. Now keep in mind this sound does not appear to be an electric buzz or hum. It is just that same music which is coming through the DAC albeit in very low volume. Shouldn't Input 1 and 3 supposed to be clean and dead since I have not connected anything to those Input 1 and 3 ?

I don't think I get this bleeding problem if I connect the DAC to input 4 or 5. I can try again to check.

I was wondering if this is normal behavior in such an expensive amplifier or can it be a cable issue ? I was thinking if this a bleed is normal then it should happen when I connect the DAC to any input from 2 through 5. But why only Input 2 ? Did I get a faulty amplifier from Rega and ask for a replacement?

 

[Al ears]

Hello everyone - I hope you are doing well. I am a new member and recently have been doing a lot of research and purchasing for Hi-Fi gadgets for my listening pleasures. Now 2/3 weeks back I purchased a brand new Rega Elex-R amplifier to power my Magenepan 1.7i speakers. Just so that you know this Rega amp has got 5 inputs. Input 1 is for Phono. Input 2 through 5 is for external sounds sources to connect through RCA cables.

Now here is the issue I am facing: If I connect my music source through DAC to Rega's Input 2. Select the Rega to Input 1 or Input 3 and increase the volume of Rega towards the high maximum (say towards the last 3/4th of the volume dial) then I can hear the music bleeding from Input 1 in faint volume. Now keep in mind this sound does not appear to be an electric buzz or hum. It is just that same music which is coming through the DAC albeit in very low volume. Shouldn't Input 1 and 3 supposed to be clean and dead since I have not connected anything to those Input 1 and 3 ?

I don't think I get this bleeding problem if I connect the DAC to input 4 or 5. I can try again to check.

I was wondering if this is normal behavior in such an expensive amplifier or can it be a cable issue ? I was thinking if this a bleed is normal then it should happen when I connect the DAC to any input from 2 through 5. But why only Input 2 ? Did I get a faulty amplifier from Rega and ask for a replacement?

I have no experience of that particular amp but if it happened on any of the amps I have owned it would be going straight back to the owner.

Others might have differing thoughts and recommendations.

 

[geek_boy_in]

Thanks for the response. So it does seem to you as an abnormal behavior. I have ordered a new pair of RCA cables from Blue Jeans just to isolate the issue.

I am going to talk to the Dealer as well once I am doubly sure it is not a bad setup issue. More responses and input from forum members are also welcome.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

I would also do the same as Al....but you really shouldn't be pushing that volume knob as much....about halfway and the amp is pretty much putting out all it's power.

 

[MajorFubar]

I think you're worrying about nothing. Gonna have to be honest. If I was your Rega dealer and you brought it back because you've noticed a tiny bit of audio-bleed on an empty input when you whack the volume up to a level which normally would blow your eardrums / speakers / amp / all the of above, I'd smile sweetly to keep up the professional appearance but secretly I'd think you were a nutjob.

 

[Al ears]

I think you're worrying about nothing. Gonna have to be honest. If I was your Rega dealer and you brought it back because you've noticed a tiny bit of audio-bleed on an empty input when you whack the volume up to a level which normally would blow your eardrums / speakers / amp / all the of above, I'd smile sweetly to keep up the professional appearance but secretly I'd think you were a nutjob.

I would have to tend to disagree here. Whilst it is a minor complaint and your unlikely to hear it with the volume control in a ' sensible' position I cannot recall having anything like this on any of my amps at any volume level.

I can only conclude that, whilst it's not going to get any worse, it should happen in a well designed amp in the first instance and therefore can be considered a fault. I would expect a decent dealer to let you at the very least have loan of another Elex to see if it is a common trait with all of them or just the OPs.

 

[geek_boy_in]

Fubar - had a good laugh. I actually do not listen to it so high. Neighbors and wife would drive me out of the house. I was testing out the equipment. Before I go back to Input 2 (which is where say the DAC is connected) I reduce the volume to around 1/4th or a little above it.

Right now I retested it. The bleed is being heard when selecting Input 1 (The phono input) in Rega even at less than half (50%) the volume knob. The neighboring input 3 is not bad and negligible even it high volume.

My worry is if there is an audio bleed from Input 2 to Input 1 (phono) then isn't there a possibility that when I conect an LP record player it would reduce the fidelity of that record sound ? Offcourse I can always remove the DAC and attach it to Input 3 through 5 to increase the seperation essentially keeping Input 2 empty ( but then now I have a total of 4 usable inputs not 5). So the crux of my question was whether this is a common phenomenon in high end Amplifiers that a little bleed happens in neighboring input jacks at high volume.

 

[geek_boy_in]

I can only conclude that, whilst it's not going to get any worse, it should happen in a well designed amp in the first instance and therefore can be considered a fault. I would expect a decent dealer to let you at the very least have loan of another Elex to see if it is a common trait with all of them or just the OPs.

That is what my concern is. Around that $1600 range there were many amplifier options to buy. Being the detail oriented enthusiasts that we are, I am asking myself am I doing the right thing to compromise.

 

[MajorFubar]

My worry is if there is an audio bleed from Input 2 to Input 1 (phono) then isn't there a possibility that when I conect an LP record player it would reduce the fidelity of that record sound ?

No. It's being caused by nothing more than inductance in the circuitry from the live input to the empty input, and unless you routinely expect to play two sources while only listening to one, it won't make an iota of difference. You might even find it reduces quite a bit (possibly even to nothing) if you plug another device into the empty inputs, or short them. But don't short the phono input.

If it bothers you, there's no harm you taking it back to the dealer to ask for him to check if other examples of the same amp do the same. But really it's nothing to worry about, and it won't compromise the sound of anything.

 

[shadders]

Now here is the issue I am facing: If I connect my music source through DAC to Rega's Input 2. Select the Rega to Input 1 or Input 3 and increase the volume of Rega towards the high maximum (say towards the last 3/4th of the volume dial) then I can hear the music bleeding from Input 1 in faint volume. Now keep in mind this sound does not appear to be an electric buzz or hum. It is just that same music which is coming through the DAC albeit in very low volume. Shouldn't Input 1 and 3 supposed to be clean and dead since I have not connected anything to those Input 1 and 3 ?

For the phono - this should have a voltage gain of about 40+dB. So, any signal at line level next to it may be amplified significantly from the crosstalk, so you would be able to hear something.

Since you also get this from the third input - then this sounds like the input relays switch only a single input which is the signal, and not both. Relay may not be a changeover where in the unused stated each input, live and ground, would be switched to ground - with the live signal passing through a 10k resistor for example, to ground when unused.

Alternatively - could be a fault - but not sure what it could be.

I don't think I get this bleeding problem if I connect the DAC to input 4 or 5. I can try again to check.

'Ere guvnor, its yer amp that's bleedin' gone up the swanny. Is it me, or did anyone else misread this sentence ?

Regards,

Shadders.

 

[geek_boy_in]

No. It's being caused by nothing more than inductance in the circuitry from the live input to the empty input, and unless you routinely expect to play two sources while only listening to one, it won't make an iota of difference. You might even find it reduces quite a bit (possibly even to nothing) if you plug another device into the empty inputs, or short them. But don't short the phono input.

If it bothers you, there's no harm you taking it back to the dealer to ask for him to check if other examples of the same amp do the same. But really it's nothing to worry about, and it won't compromise the sound of anything.

Thanks Foobar for the assurance. Yes it is a pain to take it back to the dealer and get into an explanation if it is a non-issue. And the weight of this Elex-R is way heavier than it looks. I just do not have enough experience with High end amplifiers to conclude a judgement hence asked for you all's opinion.

I have not connected any record player to the Photo input yet. So I hope your observation is correct that it will reduce or be negligible to nothing once a signal is there and Input 2 does not cause a noise in Phono Input 1. I have to figure out how to get a turn table now to test your theory.

 

[hybridauth_Google_113576585947769268360]

Now here is the issue I am facing: If I connect my music source through DAC to Rega's Input 2. Select the Rega to Input 1 or Input 3 and increase the volume of Rega towards the high maximum (say towards the last 3/4th of the volume dial) then I can hear the music bleeding from Input 1 in faint volume. Now keep in mind this sound does not appear to be an electric buzz or hum. It is just that same music which is coming through the DAC albeit in very low volume. Shouldn't Input 1 and 3 supposed to be clean and dead since I have not connected anything to those Input 1 and 3 ?

I have got a similar issue on my new Cyrus amplifier. The bleeding disappears though when I activate the given input (switch the connected to it device on). I would say this is normal and most folks even won't notice it.

 

[geek_boy_in]

For the phono - this should have a voltage gain of about 40+dB. So, any signal at line level next to it may be amplified significantly from the crosstalk, so you would be able to hear something.

Since you also get this from the third input - then this sounds like the input relays switch only a single input which is the signal, and not both. Relay may not be a changeover where in the unused stated each input, live and ground, would be switched to ground - with the live signal passing through a 10k resistor for example, to ground when unused.

Alternatively - could be a fault - but not sure what it could be.

I don't think I get this bleeding problem if I connect the DAC to input 4 or 5. I can try again to check.

'Ere guvnor, its yer amp that's bleedin' gone up the swanny. Is it me, or did anyone else misread this sentence ?

Thanks Shadders. So if I understand you correctly; the gain in the Phono input port (which is by design by Rega) is contributing to me hearing music coming from adjacent Input 2. Hmm... I wish Rega had a service phone number of email address. Their Contact page just tell me to reach out to the dealer.

The other possibility that you mentioned about the manner in which the relay is passing through only the used signal and grounding the remaining live signals. If that theory is correct then I should be able to hear faint music when other inputs like Input 4 or 5 are chosen in Rega as well. But I don't hear any music bleed except primarily when in Phono Input and that too most likely only from Input 2.

 

[iceman16]

dont think Al have heard a FULL class A

 

[MajorFubar]

Really, honestly, forget it. Bit of bleed between the inputs makes no iota of difference. If you were running a multi-zone system and you were complaining that when you played different sources to the two (or more) zones you could hear bleed from the other sources even at normal volume levels, I'd be the first to tell you to take it back and give the shop a lobbocking if they won't fix it. But you're not, and your Rega can't even facilitate such a set-up. So it's a non-issue that affects the sum total of jack sh*t. Don't worry about non-issues. Grab yourself a beer and go listen to your amazing speakers.

 

[muljao]

I had the same issue on an amp years ago. Didn't matter at all, but if you are concerned go back to the shop and if one is on demo, see if it does the same, likely its a no issue occurance though

 

[plastic penguin]

Okay, after reading this I'd check out my amp. Switched the FM radio on and tried other inputs (CD and Aux inputs) and at three quarters volume there's is a slight bleed from the radio.

As I never play above 10 o'clock it isn't an issue.

As Major says, don't concern yourself.

 

[SemiChronic]

Ive also tested this on my much hated oxford dictionary amp. Streamer and cd at -50db, no bleeds/crosstalk . . did get a bit warm though

 

[geek_boy_in]

Grab yourself a beer and go listen to your amazing speakers.

Foobar - Right on brother . After weeks of obsessively researching (as my wife puts it) I would like to think that I ended up with the best value for money setup.

Penguin - Thanks for checking. That was primarily the intention of my post for you all to mock the setup and give me some feedback from the behavior of your amplifiers.

Mujao - Thank for confirmation.

Calling all Rega owners out there to mock it up as well and provide me input. The dealer here is small and do not keep extra models. I think he had the smaller Rega Brio-R as demo when my decision kind of got swayed towards Rega seeing how that small box was driving the Mags. The sound scape and air in the music was impressive.

 

[Al ears]

dont think Al have heard a FULL class A

I have and I own one, in addition to the one in my signature. Perhaps you could explain what it's got to do with this thread.

Not too sure what a FULL Class A is, it's either Class A or it's not.

 

[lindsayt]

I have and I own one, in addition to the one in my signature. Perhaps you could explain what it's got to do with this thread.

Not too sure what a FULL Class A is, it's either Class A or it's not.

http://www.stereophile.com/content/krell-ksa-250-power-amplifier-when-class-class#vq6TFUBLi3AsvW5l.97

There's full Class A and there's Class A/B that's heavily biased into Class A that's nevertheless marketed as Class A.

 

[hybridauth_Google_113576585947769268360]

I have got a similar issue on my new Cyrus amplifier. The bleeding disappears though when I activate the given input (switch the connected to it device on). I would say this is normal and most folks even won't notice it.

To be more precise: this (bleeding) only occurs on line 3 when line 5 FM tuner is on, while all other inputs remain totally clean (silent - line 1 and two digital). I didn't check inputs which are not in use.

Just as a curiosity - Marantz PM6005, for instance, doesn't suffer from any bleeding at all throughout its all six line inputs.

 

[Al ears]

I have and I own one, in addition to the one in my signature. Perhaps you could explain what it's got to do with this thread.

Not too sure what a FULL Class A is, it's either Class A or it's not.

http://www.stereophile.com/content/krell-ksa-250-power-amplifier-when-cl...

There's full Class A and there's Class A/B that's heavily biased into Class A that's nevertheless marketed as Class A.

Otherwise known as Class A, Class A/B, Class G etc, etc, (the word FULL doesn't enter into it). I know, but still don't know what its got to do with this thread.

 

[shadders]

For the phono - this should have a voltage gain of about 40+dB. So, any signal at line level next to it may be amplified significantly from the crosstalk, so you would be able to hear something.

Since you also get this from the third input - then this sounds like the input relays switch only a single input which is the signal, and not both. Relay may not be a changeover where in the unused stated each input, live and ground, would be switched to ground - with the live signal passing through a 10k resistor for example, to ground when unused.

Alternatively - could be a fault - but not sure what it could be.

I don't think I get this bleeding problem if I connect the DAC to input 4 or 5. I can try again to check.

'Ere guvnor, its yer amp that's bleedin' gone up the swanny. Is it me, or did anyone else misread this sentence ?

Thanks Shadders. So if I understand you correctly; the gain in the Phono input port (which is by design by Rega) is contributing to me hearing music coming from adjacent Input 2. Hmm... I wish Rega had a service phone number of email address. Their Contact page just tell me to reach out to the dealer.

The other possibility that you mentioned about the manner in which the relay is passing through only the used signal and grounding the remaining live signals. If that theory is correct then I should be able to hear faint music when other inputs like Input 4 or 5 are chosen in Rega as well. But I don't hear any music bleed except primarily when in Phono Input and that too most likely only from Input 2.

Hi,

Apologies for the late reply. That was my initial thought - that the gain of the phono stage which is in voltage terms 40+dB, may have been the cause - but then you stated you have the same issue on input 3, which is standard line level.

So, it is not the phono stage, but possibly the design. An unused input should ideally be connected to ground - but for the signal pin of that input, connection to ground should be through a 10kohm resistor, so as not to affect the output of the equipment that is connected to input 3.

Can you hear the hiss - of the white noise - through the speakers when you turn up the volume to this level on an unaffected input ?.

If so, then the crosstalk (bleeding) is at a similar level - and essentially can be ignored as a fault.

Regards,

Shadders.

 

[geek_boy_in]

Shadders - The faint music from the other inputs are comparatively much lower in volume. That faint Music is much more easily be heard from the empty phono input at even the 11o'clock mark in volume dial and obviously it increases as you turn the dial towards 3o'clock. So your theory that it is caused (or atleast magnified) by the higher gain might hold some merit. Major Foobar has suggested that its just inductance and should go away when I connect a turn table to it. I am trying to get a record player to test it.

There is an undercurrent of debate in this thread whether to call it a design shortcoming (per Al Ears) or a natural compromise for the way Elex-R is built.

And No there is no Hiss or white noise from any of the 5 inputs even at high volume. That is quite impressive and also gives me some degree of confidence towards the bluejeans interconnects and my overall setup . It is just this varying degrees of faint music.

DariusZ - Thanks for the checking the Cyrus amp. Thats helpful. Also its impressive that Marantz PM6005 does not exhibit that behavior. I was thinking of buying the Marantz but the Magnepan dealer was not carrying that and his demo through Rega Brio-R was very impressive. That Brio-R: Mag setup was even beating much more expensive and powerful pre-amp/amp combos in terms of resolution and spatial feel. I went for the higher version Elex-R because theoritically Brio-R would be pushing it a bit to drive a pair of Mags. Will Marantz PM6005 be able to drive Mag 1.7i speakers?