Really very Neat, Discrete and Still High Performing Atmos Cinema system

[Benedict_Arnold]

TV isn't too high and you can only work with the space you have.

I deliberately put the TV in our HT room up quite high as we have two rows of seating. Thus people on the back row don't end up looking at the backs of the heads of the people in the front row.

Right now the 55-incher's centreline is about 4 feet down / 5 feet up on a 9 ft high wall. The room has two 6-inch steps up frrom front to back, so to the viewers it appears to be 4' 6" (front row) and 4'0" (back row) up the wall.

If / when i get my hands on either a 95-inch 16:9 4K TV or,preferably, a 138" 2.35:1 screen and 4K projector, the centre of the image will move up the wall another 6 inches to 1 ft.

So far, I've had no complaints about stiff necks, except (warning old joke ahead) from the father-in-law when he didn't swallow his Viagra quick enough.

 

[manix]

It is quite discrete but I think the TV position is all wrong - basically too high with regard to the seating postion and distance to tv

My other question would be in reality the speakers would be a comprise over traditional boxes in sound quality. At what point does atmos out benefit shear sound quality of a say a 5.1 system? It there a point at which this happens? I suppose it really depends what you are listening to.

TV isn't too high and you can only work with the space you have.

In wall speaker are not a compromise over in room speakers. The opposite actually.

This system will not only outperform many high end 2 channel systems but delivers stunning movie performance too.

I'm not sure you can say for a second the tv isn't too high if it's above the top of your head. The only way to view is by angling your head back.

With your head at the back wall and no speakers behind you I'm really not sure how it is possible to get a proper dimension to the sound that is intended to be behind you?

You say in 2 channel mode this system will out perform many high end two channel systems. That I cannot confirm as I have not heard your system side by side. Some words of wisdom though do think or do you know? But there is something I definatelty do know you are miles off the listening axis for the front the front LR speakers due to your head being so low compared to their postion so even if they were the best speakers in the world due to your seating postion you will never here how good they are properly.

 

[MajorFubar]

I think that looks excellent, but I agree for me the TV would be too high. I find I'm happiler looking straight ahead or slightly down, same posture people are advised to adopt when working at a computer, where common advice is for the the top of the screen to be no higher than your eyes when looking straight ahead. Does look superb though and I envy how neat it all is.

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

Since I'm usually horizontal on the couch, I suppose my TV should be screwed to the ceiling, but it isn't....

Well, not yet anyway

 

[MajorFubar]

Since I'm usually horizontal on the couch, I suppose my TV should be screwed to the ceiling, but it isn't....

Well, not yet anyway

That reminds me about a digital bedside clock I once bought which had a separate up-firing display that shone the time on the ceiling! It was quite cool but when like me you still need to reach for your specs to read it, it's a bit pointless.

 

[SeriouslyCinema]

Also factor in that's a domestic setup there where is always compromises.

A high tv is better than a low tv in my opinion then factor in how much kit is in there all hidden it's a pre and multiple power amp setup with other kit and dual subs with 11 speakers for atmos.

All it gives you is neck ache. Unfortunatly so many people mount tv's on walls too high with regards to the seating postion. Can't really see a real arguement that there is too much pre-amps / power amps that a tv has to mounted high. The fundimental first step is to get a comfortable viewing position for the tv and then work around that.

We supply, design and install home cinemas and I can assure you that no one will develop any form of neck ache with this viewing height.

The fundamental first step is to ensure the system works as a whole In this room all equipment had to be placed screen wall end and a centre speaker installed.

fi

 

[SeriouslyCinema]

It is quite discrete but I think the TV position is all wrong - basically too high with regard to the seating postion and distance to tv

My other question would be in reality the speakers would be a comprise over traditional boxes in sound quality. At what point does atmos out benefit shear sound quality of a say a 5.1 system? It there a point at which this happens? I suppose it really depends what you are listening to.

TV isn't too high and you can only work with the space you have.

In wall speaker are not a compromise over in room speakers. The opposite actually.

This system will not only outperform many high end 2 channel systems but delivers stunning movie performance too.

I'm not sure you can say for a second the tv isn't too high if it's above the top of your head. The only way to view is by angling your head back.

With your head at the back wall and no speakers behind you I'm really not sure how it is possible to get a proper dimension to the sound that is intended to be behind you?

You say in 2 channel mode this system will out perform many high end two channel systems. That I cannot confirm as I have not heard your system side by side. Some words of wisdom though do think or do you know? But there is something I definatelty do know you are miles off the listening axis for the front the front LR speakers due to your head being so low compared to their postion so even if they were the best speakers in the world due to your seating postion you will never here how good they are properly.

I am sure you are an expert in all things audio, but we do this for a living, installing systems up to £300K for the audio alone.

Dimemsion of sound behind? Surround back speakers are not employed in this system as it's 5.2.4.

There are no issues with off axis response either as the tweeters are slightly above seated head height. No discomfort in the neck whilst viewing as the sofa supports the back and neck.

This is not a dedicated room but a sitting room where some compromises will exist. Compromises or not, the system sounds and looks stunning with all types of media.

 

[SeriouslyCinema]

Have a look at MK Sound IW300's and in wall offerings from Procella audio and Paradigm..

The above manufacturers also have fantastic in wall Subwoofers too.

 

[ellisdj]

When I had a TV for my main system I had them at various heights as the TV's got bigger

I actually found higher was better than lower - it ended up being with my eye level a third of the way up from the bottom of the image roughly. I was very happy with that, it seemed perfect.

At the BFI imax screen in the premier seats you are in the lower half of the screen height from memory about 1/3 the way up. Its been a while since I have been but I remember the screen being taller than wide.

Looking forward to a demo Seriously at some point, you also need to come here for a demo and hear a proper system for once

All the best

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

Have a look at MK Sound IW300's and in wall offerings from Procella audio and Paradigm..

The above manufacturers also have fantastic in wall Subwoofers too.

Thanks for the recommendations. Looked at the M&K Sound website last night whilst accompanying my wife to a "do" that was boring me out of my mind - a snobby wine tasting and I don't even drink :-( . Sizes (particularly depth) look fine for a stud wall, and I can always "box" them in on the blindside anyway as it's big cupboard. Only criticism off the top of my head is that the frequency responses only go down to 80 Hz compared to under 30 with the ProAc floorstanders, so subs would still be needed with the "proper stereo" and I don't want to have to mess around with selector switches or two sets of subs. Big bucks as well.

I'll have a look at Procella and Paradigm later today.

 

[jonathanRD]

The bottom of my tv is 100cm from the floor, just enough to cleaar the 3 levels of electronics (hifi & HC) and the centre speaker, although I do sit about 3.2m away. Seems perfectly natural looking up at the screen.

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

"Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men."

Group Captain Harry Day, GC, DSO, OBE, 1898-1977

 

[SeriouslyCinema]

Have a look at MK Sound IW300's and in wall offerings from Procella audio and Paradigm..

The above manufacturers also have fantastic in wall Subwoofers too.

Thanks for the recommendations. Looked at the M&K Sound website last night whilst accompanying my wife to a "do" that was boring me out of my mind - a snobby wine tasting and I don't even drink :-( . Sizes (particularly depth) look fine for a stud wall, and I can always "box" them in on the blindside anyway as it's big cupboard. Only criticism off the top of my head is that the frequency responses only go down to 80 Hz compared to under 30 with the ProAc floorstanders, so subs would still be needed with the "proper stereo" and I don't want to have to mess around with selector switches or two sets of subs. Big bucks as well.

I'll have a look at Procella and Paradigm later today.

The MK's are designed to be used with Subwoofers as are the Procellas.

 

[manix]

It is quite discrete but I think the TV position is all wrong - basically too high with regard to the seating postion and distance to tv

My other question would be in reality the speakers would be a comprise over traditional boxes in sound quality. At what point does atmos out benefit shear sound quality of a say a 5.1 system? It there a point at which this happens? I suppose it really depends what you are listening to.

TV isn't too high and you can only work with the space you have.

In wall speaker are not a compromise over in room speakers. The opposite actually.

This system will not only outperform many high end 2 channel systems but delivers stunning movie performance too.

I'm not sure you can say for a second the tv isn't too high if it's above the top of your head. The only way to view is by angling your head back.

With your head at the back wall and no speakers behind you I'm really not sure how it is possible to get a proper dimension to the sound that is intended to be behind you?

You say in 2 channel mode this system will out perform many high end two channel systems. That I cannot confirm as I have not heard your system side by side. Some words of wisdom though do think or do you know? But there is something I definatelty do know you are miles off the listening axis for the front the front LR speakers due to your head being so low compared to their postion so even if they were the best speakers in the world due to your seating postion you will never here how good they are properly.

I am sure you are an expert in all things audio, but we do this for a living, installing systems up to £300K for the audio alone.

Dimemsion of sound behind? Surround back speakers are not employed in this system as it's 5.2.4.

There are no issues with off axis response either as the tweeters are slightly above seated head height. No discomfort in the neck whilst viewing as the sofa supports the back and neck.

This is not a dedicated room but a sitting room where some compromises will exist. Compromises or not, the system sounds and looks stunning with all types of media.

Well no need to get upset and start getting insulting.

You were the one who said it out performed many high end 2 channel systems which even someone with relatively little knowledge knows it can't just based on the position of the front speakers.

Rear sound effects is a pretty big thing to omit from a system costing so much.

Lets face it if someone can afford that load of kit in their house it's likely they will have a room big enough for rear sound field. Also if you have that kind of money to spend it's normal to move the electronics out of the room (garage, loft, etc) and free up space especially when it's that tight on space.

 

[SeriouslyCinema]

No one is getting upset or throwing insults.

I just find your assumptions strange.

The cost of the system is irrelevant. The same principles apply to all systems. With regards to the 2 channel performance may I suggest you come and have a listen before publicly denouncing something you have not heard.

The majority of home cinema systems do not have room for surround back speakers and FYI surround speakers in a 5.1 system are generally placed 90 to 110 degree to the sides of the MLP, again perhaps you need to have a demonstration.

I posted on this forum to help folk with an interest in home cinema see what is possible, even in a small English sitting room. All other replies to my posts have been positive and I hope folk may apply some of what we have achieved with this room to their own rooms

Im not posting on this forum to generate sales as we advertise through other mediums and have removed our website details as requested.

im sorry that you feel the TV is too high, L&R speakers also too high to reproduce fantastic 2 channel music, no rear sound stage and the system is too expensive for this size room.

Regards

SeriouslyCinema

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

Can I ask a pro's opinion?

In our living room, we had the builder put in speaker cables for two pairs of in-ceiling speakers plus two fronts and a centre. No sides as one side of the room is all glass, the other open plan to the kitchen-diner. I forgot to ask the builder to put in rear wall speaker cables, however.

Currently the TV sits on a sideboard kind of thing (rather nice, very expensive for what it is) in the corner of the room, but it could go above the fireplace, which is more-or-less halfway down one wall, which would take care of front left right and centre speaker positioning relative to the TV - even if I do have to run a power socket spur, HDMI, aeriel and ethernet cables around the fireplace or through the plasterboard walls to make the TV work.

So. I can get three fronts and four overhead without too much kerfuffle. Sides could be done, but the memsahib is unlikely to go for speakers on stands, so forget those. Rears would mean running ribbon type cables under the carpet and speakers on stands or hacking through ceiling joists and down the walls. Not good.

So. Assume I can get three fronts and four overheads, possibly two rears on stands at a push.

I'm hoping for a Marantz 1607 for Chrimbo, which I, that's me, yours truly, really only intended for muzac service with the four overheads in the living room, two more in the dining room and later another two on the patio. The memsahib will probably end up wanting surround though.

What would you do and how would you set up the 1607? My thoughts are:

1. Just set it up for muzac and be done with;

2. Use the rearmost in-ceilings as "rears" and live with the less than ideal surround.

3. Either just install one pair in the ceiling, or install both pairs, wiring them as two pairs in parallel, either way as Atmos overheads, add on stands with ribbon cables under the carpet.

4. Sell the wife for medical experiements (hopefull excruciatingly painful ones).

5. Move house.

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

Clarifying room layout.

Room is about 18 ft. x 18 ft.

North wall has a 6 ft. wide fireplace and chimney breast halfway along. It's a gas fire. The alcove to the left contains the sideboard thingey. Most of the space to the right is open to the other reception room.

East wall doesn't exist - the side is open to the dining kitchen.

South wall is to all intents and purposes solid.

West wall is to all intents and purposes all glass.

We sit facing the fireplace. I don't want to change that around.

We have carpet over concrete on the floor. Later we're going to tile or put wood down, but not for quite a while. If / when I do I can put a conduit in a groove under the new floor and cement over it.

There are FOUR bricks in this entire house - I counted them when it was being built. They hold up the fireplace. The rest is wood and stucco, Texas style. (You can't build a house economically to sustain a direct hit from a tornado, so why bother?)

 

[macdiddy]

Number 5, move house, sounds easier to me that trying to find a solution to all the problems with your current situation.

*stop*