Question for Andrew and Ipv

insider9

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Sep 20, 2016
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Sorry to call you out like this. I've come across a thread about a bake-off (ATC v AVI v EV).

The way I've read it you both had enjoyed EVs. From value for money they could also be a great choice as long as you're patient and lucky. Also a prime candidate to turn active which with size of cabinets would be a breeze.

My question would be what was it about their sound that didn't do it for you? In short, I'm trying to understand why neither of you end up with a pair of similar/same kind of speakers? Or was it purely the way they looked? Thanks
 

lpv

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I've stopped to form any opinions about audio components if I'm not familiar enough with the sound they produce.

for example, I've had on a home demo the auralic aries streamer for 3 weeks.. enough? better than short demo I guess

since the bake off I've moved from dm10s to dm12s.. they are just right in my small front room and ev's would never work as good as in bigger Andrew's room when the bake off took place.

the owner of the ev's, lindsay, says that crossover is the least important part of loudspeaker so you might think again before turning them active

so to answer your questions:

a) not enough time spend to form an opinion

b) too big for my small room.. you need to sit further away really as otherwise you can hear separate drivers..

horns produce lively sound.. whether you like it is another matter
 

insider9

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Was there anything about their sound that you didn't like? I'm only curious about your preference and not necesarily better worse comparison. We all have our likes and dislikes.

As to crossover being the least important, I understand where he's coming from. Overall design, drive unit quality, size and matching are far more important. Activating speaker with 15" driver won't be as beneficial as one with 7" one. Still something to consider and fairly straight forward nowadays particularly as you can better time align them which would be of big benefit in a smaller room.
 

lpv

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what I didn't like? ( again, don't forget it was short demo)

piercing mids and highs.. false impression of clarity?

it can be good with some electric guitar.. piano sounded good but it would with any bigger cabinet where violin sounds much better thru dm10 ( and especially thru new dm12) as these are smoother in the mids and highs yet preserve all the clarity..

violin was a pain from ev's and it's never a pain live as violin is a uber smooth instument even when played hard..

while I could sort the piano by going for 2 subs I could not smoother ev's horns for satisfying violin reproduction.

the sound of symphony orchestra was shouty too.

good dynamics though
 

insider9

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I've heard so much good from Lindsay about them so it's good to have some criticism and a different view. I appreciate this was a short listening session and taste varies.

Based on your comments on dynamics, have you not considered exploring other horn designs that could perhaps do violin to your satisfacion? Or would it too big of a compromise, considering the potential size of the speakers?
 

lindsayt

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lpv, answer this question: On the day of the bake-off, did you think that the AVI DM10's were better sounding (overall) speakers than the EV Sentry III's?
 

lpv

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you have asked that question many times.. didn't you get your answer?

I give you a clue: the answer is in this thread as well as other threads over the years when you have asked the question *angel*
 

insider9

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I wanted to avoid absolute comparisons and go with preference for the purpose of this thread. It's easier to discuss likes and dislikes as they're personal and there's no right or wrong. I find them more informative too.

Lindsay, your speakers are designed to work close to walls right? And I'm guessing this does not affect imaging... Is this partly to the use of midrange horn?
 

lindsayt

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lpv said:
you have asked that question many times.. didn't you get your answer?

I give you a clue: the answer is in this thread as well as other threads over the years when you have asked the question *angel*
Is there a problem in you clearly and unambiguously stating the answer now in this thread?

A simple "On the day of the bake-off, yes I thought the AVI's plus sub sounded better overall."

Or "On the day of the bake-off, no I thought the AVI's plus sub sounded worse overall." would suffice.

Come on lpv. All you need to do is copy and paste the most applicable answer that I have typed out for you. And then hit the "Save" button at the bottom of the screen.
 

lindsayt

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Insider9, yes the EV Sentry III's are designed for half space or quarter space, as EV said. IE against the wall.

They have deep cabinets. Plus the compression drivers and horns are more directional than conventional cones and domes. Therefore less midrange sound bouncing off the walls, floor and ceilings.

The Sentry's are not as good as TonyL's (from pfm) Tannoys at producing an in-room soundstage for people sitting away from the sweet spot. However they are better than his Tannoys for having a wide open, unfettered, not shut-in midrange. Better midrange low level detail and clarity than his Tannoys too.
 

chebby

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Jun 2, 2008
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lindsayt said:
lpv said:
you have asked that question many times.. didn't you get your answer?

I give you a clue: the answer is in this thread as well as other threads over the years when you have asked the question *angel*
Is there a problem in you clearly and unambiguously stating the answer now in this thread?

A simple "On the day of the bake-off, yes I thought the AVI's plus sub sounded better overall."

Or "On the day of the bake-off, no I thought the AVI's plus sub sounded worse overall." would suffice.

Come on lpv. All you need to do is copy and paste the most applicable answer that I have typed out for you. And then hit the "Save" button at the bottom of the screen.
From the original thread ...

lpv said:
First of all – Andrew, Lindsay thanks guys for an interesting evening.

EV - I was really looking to have a listen to these heavy and ugly beasts.

Expectations? Wooly boomy bass, recessed midrange, muffled top.

Reality: wow, controlled/ no boom bass, forward midrange, ear piercing (on the edge but no crossing the line), no hiss, lively top

Comments: it was really Avi vs EV. I was shocked how good these dinosaurs put the musical message across. My first comment was: wow, it sounds so modern, almost like a good monitor. The piano was more real, what you would expect from a grand piano; Orchestra bit congested on EVs and less so on Avis.

I couldn’t hear much difference in stereo image between the two, soundstage front to back was more forward/ in your face on EVs.. I’m not sure how these behave over long sessions? You need to be sitting at least 3 meters away from Ev’s otherwise you’ll hear separate drivers rather than sum of them. Avis and EV’s weren’t far off and Avis weren’t boring and unmusical ( I think this comment is unfair).. the biggest difference was in the upper midrange and top: Avis smooth, EVs more lively.. otherwise very similar. … I feel I did not spend enough time to have a proper view on the EVs and can’t really comment on a violin reproduction… anyway, I think Avis and Evs are both interesting speakers.

Aesthetics? well, you decide.
 

lpv

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haha, you don't listen and you're funny..

I give you another example.. not long ago I went to a dealer with my dm10s to compare side by side to kef ls50 actives..

on the day I thought kef's were better sounding spekaers so I've asked for a home demo. dealer was kind enough and I could take the kef's with me. 3 days later and I've returned the kef's.. clearly for me dm10s won.

so now back to your eternal question.. if I would give you answer a) or b) that answer would stay with you for the rest of your life.. but it could be totally different answer if I could live with ev's more than short demo.

plus, most of the speakers that impressed me on a short demo werent the one I would keep for long.

better now?

I bet no
 

lpv

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bizzare comment I've made regarding violin as we did played tchaikovsky violin concerto.. I know this piece very well and often play this at demos..
 

lindsayt

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Do you call 6 hours a short demo?

And no you still have not given a clear and unambiguous answer to my question.

To help you along a bit here is how I would answer my question if I were you:

The EV Sentry III's sounded better overall than the AVI's plus sub.

This was apparent from the first few seconds of the first track that was played on both speakers. Every track after that simply re-inforced that impression.

Your KEF LS50 example is a big non sequitor. EV Sentry III's are considerably better sounding speakers than those KEF's.

I have no problem with you having no wish to go anywhere near EV ownership due to their size or looks.

What I cannot agree on is that the AVI's are in the same league in overall sound quality as the EV's.

What I also cannot agree on is that there's any sort of sound quality value for money in your AVI's plus sub - bearing in mind you paid about £1750 for them whilst I paid under £600 for my Creek amplifier plus EV Sentrys.

I find your first post in this thread exceedingly misleading and revisionist.
 

lpv

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you have enough answers..

even chebby quoted my original impression and that's still not enough...

you clearly have a problem lindsay and I won't help you.
 

Andrewjvt

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First off
It was more of an Avi v EV as we only played one or two tracks on my set up.

I just played host really so I had much less personal vested interest in the outcome.

Both speakers did well imo
What you need to realise it's like pitting a staffie v boerboel.

One is just so much larger than the other.

Horns can be great in the correct space but I think your room is too small tbh.

Every speaker design has pros and cons.
 

Andrewjvt

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insider9 said:
I can ways set them up as a second system in the lounge.

Was there anything that you didn't like about horns?
The size is impractical for most homes and if you like a very smooth sound they might not work.
I need to confirm as I need more time with this sort but does the sound cross the ragged edge?
Possibly or maybe not I'd need to listen again for a longer time with my music that I know.
 

insider9

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No, I don't like smooth sound. At least where it shouldn't be smooth.I particularly don't like how vast majority of speakers with dome tweeters reproduce horns (whether woodwind or brass) and cymbals, where often the presentation is too polite. That's why I'm a big fan of ribbons. But can see horn tweeters also do them really well, albeit different.

I'm not particularly looking to get EVs or any other speakers, but trying to understand how the tech translates to sound. And look for other people's opinions both positive and negative.
 

Andrewjvt

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insider9 said:
No, I don't like smooth sound. At least where it shouldn't be smooth.I particularly don't like how vast majority of speakers with dome tweeters reproduce horns (whether woodwind or brass) and cymbals, where often the presentation is too polite. That's why I'm a big fan of ribbons. But can see horn tweeters also do them really well, albeit different.

I'm not particularly looking to get EVs or any other speakers, but trying to understand how the tech translates to sound. And look for other people's opinions both positive and negative.
Consider one of those sounds that may be difficult to go back on once you are accustomed to it.

That's why I am keen on listening to the JBL 708p
 

insider9

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Yes, I know what you mean. It's like with coffee, many who love a creamy sweet lattee. I prefer a strong espresso without sugar :)

I've been looking at many JBLs on eBay.
 

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