quality of wifi compared to wires

[admin_exported]

Hi,

Does anyone know if there is any quality deprecation in using wifi 'g' compared to wired 5e ethernet?

I've experimented with streaming FLAC files from a NAS drive to a non-ampllified SONOS wireless receiver then through my DAC into the pre-amp. Compared to using my dedicated CD transport directly into the DAC, the resulting sound quality is clearly not quite as good. I'm wondering if this is a function of the SONOS wifi circuitry or of the wifi itself?

I guess the ideal woud be to test the wiring independently but I don't have a long enough stretch of ethernet cabling to try this in my setup and in any case I'm not sure if the effects of the SONOS circuitry would swamp the wire/wifi differences.

I'm asking because I have an opportunity in the near future possibly to run 5e/6 cabling and i'd like some advice on whether it is worth it from a sound quality point of view. Has anyone tried this themselves?

cheers

alf

 

[John Duncan]

I'd suggest (without having a huge amount of evidence to back it up) that wired and wireless ought to be exactly the same, though wired will of course be more reliable, generally. What's the rest of the kit (DAC/CD player/amp)?

 

[cram]

there absolutely can be bandwidth differences. Wireless whether B G or N can be effected by a number of things that don't effect wired connections. I love the convenience of wireless but if I have the opportunity to run a wire I tend to choose this in preference.

EDIT having said that there are bandwidth differences I would think that this wouldn't have a bearing on sound quality other than drop outs if the bandwidth was insufficient.

 

[Anonymous]

JohnDuncan:I'd suggest (without having a huge amount of evidence to back it up) that wired and wireless ought to be exactly the same, though wired will of course be more reliable, generally. What's the rest of the kit (DAC/CD player/amp)?

Hi John,

I'm privileged to enjoy a Tag Mclaren DVD32R as a transport into a Chord DAC64 which in turn feeds a Naim supercapped 82 preamp and 4x135s power amps biamping Totem Mani-2 speakers.

Possibly this rig shows up imperfections in the carrier medium (though it's getting a little long in the tooth now) and I have wondered whether wifi (un)reliability might lead to more error correction and so impact the sound in some way.

cheers

alf

 

[Anonymous]

There's absolutely no difference in sound quality between wireless and wired.

The only thing that may happen with wireless is breakup as signal weakens. Usually this is connected with distance from the wireless router.

 

[Anonymous]

First of all, Thank you to everyone who has responded on this thread.

Since posting my original note I've now had the opportunity to try comparing wired vs wifi directly in my system (I managed to borrow a CAT 5 cable long enough - 50 feet). I can report that there definitely IS a difference between the two mediums. The sound is cleaner and there is more fluidity to the music on wire. This isn't what I was expecting (I was hoping for tighter bass control which it didn't really improve) but repeated tests and roping in the other half confirms it. In fact, although I could tell it had improved, my wife was faster at identifying the actual differences.

Clearly the bandwidth is fine and the only change was whether the signal was transmitted via wire or wifi so I can only assume that the differences are associated with the conversion process to/from wifi.

Any thoughts anyone? Anyone else tried this comparison?

cheers

alf

 

[aliEnRIK]

Generally speaking there is more 'error correction' involved in wireless than wired. As its being 'streamed' then clearly those errors show up on hearing tests.

 

[Anonymous]

aliEnRIK:Generally speaking there is more 'error correction' involved in wireless than wired. As its being 'streamed' then clearly those errors show up on hearing tests.

How?ÿ

 

[Anonymous]

Maybe I do not have "golden ears", but I cannot hear a difference between wired and wireless.

 

[aliEnRIK]

Tarquinh:
aliEnRIK:Generally speaking there is more 'error correction' involved in wireless than wired. As its being 'streamed' then clearly those errors show up on hearing tests.

How?

ALL things digital have their limits. The limits of wireless are met before wired (generally speaking). So at some distance the wireless ability will start to 'fail' but Cat5 cable will still perform very well indeed

So as with anything digital, when it begins to fail the error correction system works overtime and as errors are produced (Which WILL happen at some point), there will be a degredation in quality until it fails alltogether (The 'cliff edge')

I also mentioned 'streaming' as if somethings sent wired or wirelessly THEN saved to the hardrive it has a much better chance of the error correction system working flawlessly than if its instantly sent out the digital connection to the DAC (or wherever. This is really down to the components used though.

I had this out on another forum with a guy (One of the worst people ive personally ever met online). He argued that digital is digital and it either works or it fails alltogether. It was a cable feeding freeview and I suggested to the OP in that case thaty he changed the cable from the wall outlet to something half decent (I mentioned some IXOS cable and thats precisely what he bought). It worked a treat. It went from being 'snowy' or failing alltogether on some channels to EVERY channel working as it should. Clearly it was very close to the 'cliff edge'

In another case someone was having problems with intermittent problems with their wireless so I advised they conenct direct with Cat 5 which solved that problem too.

With short distances then both wired and wireless 'should' work just fine. But at some point (And wireless will nearly always reach the 'cliff edge' before wired) the limits will be reached. They dont instantly 'fail' like a lot of people think. It starts with the error correction system working overtime. Then the error correction system starts to fail when it can no longer cope with the sheer volume of errors (But it still doesnt fail alltogther at this point). Given a little more distance it WILL fail alltogether though.

Wireless also majorly struggles if anything else in the vicinity is broadcasting on the same channel (Whereby it can be near its 'cliff edge' even if sat right next to the component its feeding)

So to sum up. Wired and wireless are exactly the same. That is until the 'cliff edge' begins to loom closer.

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry, Rick, perhaps I wasn't clear enough. It was what you would hear that interested me - in my experience it's a clear degradation of sound quality mostly in the form of dropouts and digital fuzziness, exactly as you describe in your answer, not the type of thing the OP says at all.

 

[method man]

rick. i have an apology for you. I made a 'funny' remark when u mentioned that you had to wait a week or two for the visual benefits of a cable change on a TV to emerge. You countered (fair enough) and I wound you up..

you obviously have put a lot of thought into this. and me, for my part, am not over bothered. I had no idea at the time that you took it so seriously and that you had looked into it so much. and as such apologise regardless of whether or not so and so theory is correct.

 

[aliEnRIK]

method man:
rick. i have an apology for you. I made a 'funny' remark when u mentioned that you had to wait a week or two for the visual benefits of a cable change on a TV to emerge. You countered (fair enough) and I wound you up..

you obviously have put a lot of thought into this. and me, for my part, am not over bothered. I had no idea at the time that you took it so seriously and that you had looked into it so much. and as such apologise regardless of whether or not so and so theory is correct.

No worries

 

[aliEnRIK]

Tarquinh:Sorry, Rick, perhaps I wasn't clear enough. It was what you would hear that interested me - in my experience it's a clear degradation of sound quality mostly in the form of dropouts and digital fuzziness, exactly as you describe in your answer, not the type of thing the OP says at all.

Yes, it is intriguing.

Id hazard a guess its when the information is converted back into electrical pulses

 

[Anonymous]

Tarquinh:Sorry, Rick, perhaps I wasn't clear enough. It was what you would hear that interested me - in my experience it's a clear degradation of sound quality mostly in the form of dropouts and digital fuzziness, exactly as you describe in your answer, not the type of thing the OP says at all.

Yes I think this is true. I don't think I'm hearing the technology at its limits in that I don't get drop-outs and it doesn't sound like a badly tuned AM radio at all. It sounds pretty good. But the same music transmitted via wire sounds, well, just more musical.

I can understand though that if error correction kicks in fairly early, as suggested, then this could be adding a degree of digital noise or perhaps increasing jitter to a point that it is audible indirectly by what it does to the music. In my situation, in order to get wifi signal from the wired sonos unit (next to the NAS) to the unit next to the hifi, the signal requires 3 hops (its a very linear house!). I suspect this may definitely have a part to play as more componentry is involved in rebroadcasting than with a point-to-point wire. I guess it is a hifi fundamental that the less processing of a signal the better the potential of the musical fidelity.

cheers

alf

 

[aliEnRIK]

As the error level creeps up its bound to have an audible effect

 

[Anonymous]

wifi can be unreliable in my experience as a network engineer, household items such as microwaves can affect both it's range and signal quality and if other people are using the wifi there could be a noticable drop in transmission rate. I'd always recommend wired over wireless.

 

[Anonymous]

kenda01:wifi can be unreliable in my experience as a network engineer, household items such as microwaves can affect both it's range and signal quality and if other people are using the wifi there could be a noticable drop in transmission rate. I'd always recommend wired over wireless.Maybe, but that's not the issue here.