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When should you upgrade your hi-fi? How to control ‘upgradeitis’
Proac stdio 100 Vs. 110, who wins?
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Studio 100 by a mile! Used by studios throughout the world. One of my personal favourite speakers!
edit: My local dealer, Noteworthy Audio of Aylesbury thinks they are the best speaker on the market for realistic prices! (ie, under £30k...)
edit: My local dealer, Noteworthy Audio of Aylesbury thinks they are the best speaker on the market for realistic prices! (ie, under £30k...)
i read on two sources that popular demand prevented proac from discontinuing them twice. they just look the deal, classic, timeless, huge drivers, - some chap kept going on about how he got goose bumps from listening to them!
But why are they not reviewed lately? What hi fi rated studio 110 5 stars....now, will the studio 100 will really beat those AVi ones? it seems that the technology they are endowed with makes them pretty spectacular
Don't worry, just bear the following in mind:
The AVi speakers are not only speakers, but amplifiers, pre-amps and DACs all in one. They cannot be compared with the ProAc 100s which are the same price and yet would be useless on their own. The ProAcs need to have suitable amplification, and for that you are looking at about £1000 and also a suitable source £1000 once again. However, the Avis only need a source, so they are far less expensive retrospectively. Once again, I maintain that the Studio 100s are better than the Studio 110s for hundreds of reasons, but it takes little more than to view the WHFS&V review of the 110s to see how good the 100s must be!
This is what my local dealer Noteworthy Audio of Aylesbury (please go to http://www.noteworthyaudio.co.uk for more) says about them:
Originally the Studio 100 was designed as a studio monitor and is currently used by many recording studios and engineers for mixing, however unlike most monitor designs their presentation is much more musical.
After 10 years of production ProAc discontinued them, but after another 4 years they were forced to reintroduce production due to demand from many people (including ourselves).
It was with bated breathe that we ran in the 2004 version of the 100's to see if the magic was still there or if our memories had been playing tricks on us. Thankfully our fears we're unwarranted, these are indeed still very serious speakers.
Like any quality design they need a bit of effort put into getting the best out of them, both in terms of the electronics used with them and the stands they are mounted on, but also care must be taken to run them in properly as these speakers take an unusually long time to get going - we recommend about 200 hours use before they're at their best.
What makes them so special is their transparency and neutrality, and when partnered with a high quality amplifier such as the Icon Stereo 40i or the 8 watt Audion Silver Night 300B SE they come to life producing a quality of sound that is well beyond their price range. The mid range and the seamless integration to the tweeter are particularly special, but then again there really isn't an area where these speakers don't excel.
News: We've just learnt (May '06) the very sad news that for the second time in its life, the Studio 100 is to be discontinued. Very limited stocks exist and there isn't going to be another production run, so if you've been considering getting a pair of these classic speakers then now is the time to act.
Stop Press: There has been a partial reprieve, ProAc have agreed to one more production run in the Cherry finish only. Unfortunately there has been an inevitable increase in cost, but we feel the speakers are still well worth every penny. We have commissioned a quantity of this production run, but stocks are limited and we predict they will sell out quickly.
Stop Press September '07: Remarkably the Studio 100 has been given a full reprieve! They are now back in production thanks to demand from both audiophiles and recording engineers. Finishes available will include Cherry, Mahogany and Black.
The AVi speakers are not only speakers, but amplifiers, pre-amps and DACs all in one. They cannot be compared with the ProAc 100s which are the same price and yet would be useless on their own. The ProAcs need to have suitable amplification, and for that you are looking at about £1000 and also a suitable source £1000 once again. However, the Avis only need a source, so they are far less expensive retrospectively. Once again, I maintain that the Studio 100s are better than the Studio 110s for hundreds of reasons, but it takes little more than to view the WHFS&V review of the 110s to see how good the 100s must be!
This is what my local dealer Noteworthy Audio of Aylesbury (please go to http://www.noteworthyaudio.co.uk for more) says about them:
Originally the Studio 100 was designed as a studio monitor and is currently used by many recording studios and engineers for mixing, however unlike most monitor designs their presentation is much more musical.
After 10 years of production ProAc discontinued them, but after another 4 years they were forced to reintroduce production due to demand from many people (including ourselves).
It was with bated breathe that we ran in the 2004 version of the 100's to see if the magic was still there or if our memories had been playing tricks on us. Thankfully our fears we're unwarranted, these are indeed still very serious speakers.
Like any quality design they need a bit of effort put into getting the best out of them, both in terms of the electronics used with them and the stands they are mounted on, but also care must be taken to run them in properly as these speakers take an unusually long time to get going - we recommend about 200 hours use before they're at their best.
What makes them so special is their transparency and neutrality, and when partnered with a high quality amplifier such as the Icon Stereo 40i or the 8 watt Audion Silver Night 300B SE they come to life producing a quality of sound that is well beyond their price range. The mid range and the seamless integration to the tweeter are particularly special, but then again there really isn't an area where these speakers don't excel.
News: We've just learnt (May '06) the very sad news that for the second time in its life, the Studio 100 is to be discontinued. Very limited stocks exist and there isn't going to be another production run, so if you've been considering getting a pair of these classic speakers then now is the time to act.
Stop Press: There has been a partial reprieve, ProAc have agreed to one more production run in the Cherry finish only. Unfortunately there has been an inevitable increase in cost, but we feel the speakers are still well worth every penny. We have commissioned a quantity of this production run, but stocks are limited and we predict they will sell out quickly.
Stop Press September '07: Remarkably the Studio 100 has been given a full reprieve! They are now back in production thanks to demand from both audiophiles and recording engineers. Finishes available will include Cherry, Mahogany and Black.
Well, i guess you won the argument. I actually read that source too. I just wondered why the other bloke (and hifi news) critique was so utterly definitive about those AVI's). Perhaps the studio 100 are the kind of speaker that are just such a classic that emancipate opinions/reviews, for as you say, they have indeed spoken for themselves. Audiophiles and professionals should know best. Tomorrow i'm off to the local dealer here in brighton for a listen/order them. Will need to find one of those arcam 32's...thanks a lot for your help. Viva studio 100 !!!
Good speakers, I just sold a pair of 110's which I used with a cyrus system though I can honestly say the AVI's (which are used in broadcast and recording studios) are better in every respect for less money. Still, the proacs are nice and you should get a reasonable deal on them as I think the whole range will be replaced soon. They are neutral to a fault though and you may find that Arcam amplification will sound a bit wanting with them but we all like different things so I hope they do it for you mate.
well, if you say so...i believe you. it so happens that their amplification is 'clever', technologically, they are far advanced. and you're right about the money. it's just counter-intuitive tat their own amplification should supersede separate amps, that said, ther wire is not necessary, and the whole package seems to provide a far more organic combination. KI think i really need to listen to them. Also, on the website they were paired with Apple mac and their ability to upscale signal and 'massage' those compressed downloads featured heavily, whereas i am a classical music man, and already own a DAC magic. I suppose i could sell everything and just get them...wishi i could compare them...what a conundrum !!! so you had the 100's hey...so you should know. nd now you are using the AVI's?
Price is not an indicator of performance in hi fi, because there are a million different reasons why they vary so greatly, the component prices are low, electronic components really low, but where things are made and profit margins, especially for "hi end" makes a huge difference. Our advice is to judge things on merit not price. Cambridge Audio has proved that.
There are enormous benefits in Active Speakers over passive ones, enormous. The crossover alone reduces distortion by a factor of 100 if it's done correctly!
At the moment, especially in the UK, ADM9.1s have caused a war because they cost a fraction of traditional hi fi and work so much better. Dealers don't want them because they prefer the upgrade path and to sell more profitable separates. Reviewers to are enthusiasts and don't like the idea that their favourite gear might be obsolete and manufacturers, who've committed to a making fiercely expensive front ends, which ours don't need because an Apple TV is as good as the most costly for ADM9.1s aren't happy either. One has emailed and complained! Under these conditions you're going to find it difficult to see an objective analysis, but the Industry is having a hard time and redundancies are not uncommon,so it' understandable. We've never been busier.
My advice to anyone interested is to keep and open mind, Google ADM9.1s and check out www.computeraudiophile.com because these are the future and soon many other manufacturers will follow our lead. Also search Active speakers to learn all that they offer.
Right now we're keeping a low profile in the UK because of all the controversy and because we're small and need to control growth so that we can finance it without borrowing money.
Thank you What Hi Fi for allowing me the opportunity to explain our position.
Ashley
There are enormous benefits in Active Speakers over passive ones, enormous. The crossover alone reduces distortion by a factor of 100 if it's done correctly!
At the moment, especially in the UK, ADM9.1s have caused a war because they cost a fraction of traditional hi fi and work so much better. Dealers don't want them because they prefer the upgrade path and to sell more profitable separates. Reviewers to are enthusiasts and don't like the idea that their favourite gear might be obsolete and manufacturers, who've committed to a making fiercely expensive front ends, which ours don't need because an Apple TV is as good as the most costly for ADM9.1s aren't happy either. One has emailed and complained! Under these conditions you're going to find it difficult to see an objective analysis, but the Industry is having a hard time and redundancies are not uncommon,so it' understandable. We've never been busier.
My advice to anyone interested is to keep and open mind, Google ADM9.1s and check out www.computeraudiophile.com because these are the future and soon many other manufacturers will follow our lead. Also search Active speakers to learn all that they offer.
Right now we're keeping a low profile in the UK because of all the controversy and because we're small and need to control growth so that we can finance it without borrowing money.
Thank you What Hi Fi for allowing me the opportunity to explain our position.
Ashley
Ashley James:
Thank you What Hi Fi for allowing me the opportunity to explain our position.
Ashley
No problem, Ashley - though I have to strongly disagree with your sweeping generalisations about 'reviewers', as if we were all one beast. We're always happy to point our readers in the direction of progress and innovation - hence being What Hi-fi? Sound and Vision since 2001
Thank you What Hi Fi for allowing me the opportunity to explain our position.
Ashley
No problem, Ashley - though I have to strongly disagree with your sweeping generalisations about 'reviewers', as if we were all one beast. We're always happy to point our readers in the direction of progress and innovation - hence being What Hi-fi? Sound and Vision since 2001
fatboyslimfast
Well-known member
Ashley James:Also search Active speakers to learn all that they offer.
Hi Ash,
I think it might be worth mentioning at this point that a lot of low end computer speakers are termed "active", even though all they are is a small built-in amplifier in front of a normal hi-level crossover, rather than the true active nature of your speakers where there are seperate power amplifiers for each drive unit.
Just thought it might need clarification in case someone searches for active speakers and thinks that a £20 pair of creative labs are true hifi!
Hi Ash,
I think it might be worth mentioning at this point that a lot of low end computer speakers are termed "active", even though all they are is a small built-in amplifier in front of a normal hi-level crossover, rather than the true active nature of your speakers where there are seperate power amplifiers for each drive unit.
Just thought it might need clarification in case someone searches for active speakers and thinks that a £20 pair of creative labs are true hifi!
Well, i must say i didn't see this coming, but this heated debate does confirm my suspicion that there are axes to grind, simply because whilst the good old 'Smithean' invisible hand caresses some, it drops others without warning...technological progress is indeed the realm of loosers and winners, and the AVI's are playing tricks...Whether they are justified, i have yet to verify. Personally, it is just counter-intuitive that the AVI's should do a better job that the stdio100 plus suitable amplification (in addition to my lovely DAC magic); now, this is a purely atavistic sentiment, because i never heard them. This is of course what i must do ASAP. However, it is clearly the case that market forces are interfering with the presumed neutrality of this forum, and this is noticeable in the arguments put forward by the previous threads. I am inclined to love the studio 100 with their huge, old - fashion drivers and transparent high range; but suspecting that the AVI's are just....something else, a different dimension of hi-fi, conceptually and sonicaly. Time will tell. Got some listening to do-and have not forgotten my sonic priorities- presence, emotion, transparency-if this is what is what arcam/proac is criticised for (lack of idiosyncrasy); then i hope my speakers lack personality, and only speak the truth.
actually, the question is not so much resolution-but bringing misic 'back to life'- which of the pseakers will do that?
Interesting to read what Hughes123 says about the Studio 100.
I have listened to this model a couple of times and I think it really shines. I wouldn't know how it compares to the 110 though, because I haven't heard this new model yet. Unfortunately, ProAc currently does not have distribution in my country.
That active system from AVI looks really like a best buy. I have heard good active speakers from Tannoy and Avantgarde, and their transparency and dynamics are usually better than a similarly priced passive-speaker / amp combo.
I have listened to this model a couple of times and I think it really shines. I wouldn't know how it compares to the 110 though, because I haven't heard this new model yet. Unfortunately, ProAc currently does not have distribution in my country.
That active system from AVI looks really like a best buy. I have heard good active speakers from Tannoy and Avantgarde, and their transparency and dynamics are usually better than a similarly priced passive-speaker / amp combo.
I tell you what I could do: As I live next to the ProAc factory, I could ask to borrow a sample of both the ProAc Studio 100s and the 110s and get a home demo on the AVis and I could tell which is best...with my A32 and CD73, I'm sure It'll be a close call between the 100s and the Avis, however my equipment isn't really high-end, so I'm fairly confident the Avis will probably be the best - that said, I still love those 100s for their ability to, as you said, bring "music back to life"...they really are good!
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