ProAc D18 (upgrade to Rega RS3)

[Fulci]

Hi! There's a good deal for a pair of ProAc D18 around here. I have some Rega RS3. Would it be worth the upgrade? Has anyone compared them?

Amp is a Brio-R for now, but will soon replace it with something better, Elicit-R, Exposure, Moon or Hegel... Room is around 20 sqm.

 

[CnoEvil]

I personally found the Rega speakers a little on the "worthy, but dull" side...so I suspect the Proacs should give a good improvement....but bear in mind that (imo) Proac sound best on the end of Class A, Valves or Hybrid amps. Brands like Sugden, Croft, Pathos, Unison Research, Luxman, Accuphase and Icon Audio come to mind.

 

[Macspur]

I'm pretty sure the ProAcs would be a good upgrade from the Rega's... Cno is correct about the suitable amps for the brand, but if you don't have access to those, the Moon or Exposure would be the better choice of the ones you listed.

Mac

www.macsmusic.blogbubble.net

 

[Al ears]

I'm pretty sure the ProAcs would be a good upgrade from the Rega's... Cno is correct about the suitable amps for the brand, but if you don't have access to those, the Moon or Exposure would be the better choice of the ones you listed.

Mac

www.macsmusic.blogbubble.net

Whilst the D18's are pretty easy to drive, I would not necessarily agree with CnoEvils suggestion that these sort of amps are the only ones that they would be suitable for. I am however, interested in where you derived your amp list from. Can you audition these?

The Hegel would certainly do well

They need to be out in the room a bit. How much space from rear wall can you give them?

P.S.: I have heard them driven be Sugden amp and indeed my own Tom Evans combo.

 

[Al ears]

I'm pretty sure the ProAcs would be a good upgrade from the Rega's... Cno is correct about the suitable amps for the brand, but if you don't have access to those, the Moon or Exposure would be the better choice of the ones you listed.

Mac

www.macsmusic.blogbubble.net

Double post apologies.

 

[CnoEvil]

Whilst the D18's are pretty easy to drive, I would not necessarily agree with CnoEvils suggestion that these sort of amps are the only ones that they would be suitable for.

TBF, I did say "sound best with", which is not quite the same as "the only ones".

BTW. How did they sound on the end of Sugden and Tom Evans?

 

[Infiniteloop]

I personally found the Rega speakers a little on the "worthy, but dull" side...so I suspect the Proacs should give a good improvement....but bear in mind that (imo) Proac sound best on the end of Class A, Valves or Hybrid amps. Brands like Sugden, Croft, Pathos, Unison Research, Luxman, Accuphase and Icon Audio come to mind.

+1 - I had a pair of D18's on the end of my Unison Research S8 SET Valve Amp for a while and they sounded great. They're easy to drive and appear to be very room friendly.

 

[Fulci]

Thanks for the replies! My speakers stand about a feet from the wall and about 5 feet from each other and from each wall. I don't find them dull at all, they are quite musical speakers actually.

My list was given based on what I can easily get around here, though most of them are hard to listen first. The ProAcs are used for around £1000...

I am aware that ProAcs are special used with tubes and class A. Sugden would be a great option but I don't want a heater feeding the speakers and from what I read I don't think it's the sound I'm after. Luxman is too expensive for me as are most the others. Tubes are not an option too.

what I like best about the RS3 is their size, fitting perfectly in such a small room with a very high waf.

Alternatively I could save up a bit more and get some ATC SCM11 or some other standmounters.

 

[Al ears]

Whilst the D18's are pretty easy to drive, I would not necessarily agree with CnoEvils suggestion that these sort of amps are the only ones that they would be suitable for.

TBF, I did say "sound best with", which is not quite the same as "the only ones".

BTW. How did they sound on the end of Sugden and Tom Evans?

Not at the same time. Both sublime. If I had the money I would have bought them on the spot.

Agree you did say best with., and yes, there are many amps that these speakers will function perfectly happy with they are very neutral and easily driven.

 

[CnoEvil]

I don't find them dull at all, they are quite musical speakers actually.

I suppose it depends on what you've compared them to....something is good until you hear better.

Bear in mind that Hifi is so subjective, that every comment you get has to be viewed with that in mind.

 

[Fulci]

I compared them with quite a few speakers, all the basic standard offerings in their price point and a few above, though not in my room... B&W, Wharfedale, Quad, etc.

Monitor Audio RS6 did sound a bit more exciting but they were too big for me, and I can only imagine them being tiring after a while, as you could notice they were being pushed in their frequence limits to impress you. The Rega, though not neutral, they are more natural and have a great mid, they are fast and... bouncy?, typical Rega sound, and not fuzzy with placement. What I always found as dull were Sonus Faber, never quite understood the appeal.

 

[Macspur]

I compared them with quite a few speakers, all the basic standard offerings in their price point and a few above, though not in my room... B&W, Wharfedale, Quad, etc.

Monitor Audio RS6 did sound a bit more exciting but they were too big for me, and I can only imagine them being tiring after a while, as you could notice they were being pushed in their frequence limits to impress you. The Rega, though not neutral, they are more natural and have a great mid, they are fast and... bouncy?, typical Rega sound, and not fuzzy with placement. What I always found as dull were Sonus Faber, never quite understood the appeal.

Which Sonus Fabers have you heard?

Mac

www.macsmusic.blogbubble.net

 

[Infiniteloop]

I compared them with quite a few speakers, all the basic standard offerings in their price point and a few above, though not in my room... B&W, Wharfedale, Quad, etc.

Monitor Audio RS6 did sound a bit more exciting but they were too big for me, and I can only imagine them being tiring after a while, as you could notice they were being pushed in their frequence limits to impress you. The Rega, though not neutral, they are more natural and have a great mid, they are fast and... bouncy?, typical Rega sound, and not fuzzy with placement. What I always found as dull were Sonus Faber, never quite understood the appeal.

Sonus Faber are not the sort of speaker to dazzle you with pyrotechnics during a few minutes listening in a dealer's showroom.

They're the sort of speaker that you can listen to for hours at decent volume without fatigue and just get lost in the music.

The sort of speaker that makes it difficult to switch the music off and go to bed when you realise it's very much later than you realised.....

 

[NSA_watch_my_toilet]

I remember myself of my test run of the ProAC D18. I had, before, tested out a lot of speakers in the market. And, especially in the price area of those ProAc, I wasn't very pleased with the contestants. I found a lot of them to lack details, or, in short, to be musical compromise for a lot of bucks.

And i remember clearly that the ProAc where the worst compromise, for my tastes, of the whole bunch. There was simply too much music informations cut off from the rendering.
Basses where disappearing completely, to the point where timbalis and other electric basses where away from the recording.
Complex ensembles where suddenly thrown together in some horrendous melting pot, or, said with other words ; when the things became complicated, the box collapsed and started to simplify randomly many aspects of the music. Making it difficult to follow the heart of the mesage.
Music never was freed completely from the speakers, the lack of 3D scenery was obvious. And pan games between right and left were bad.
Highs where having it hard to just perform okay.
I can only see the medium to be a very good one. Very good expression of this one, and a good life like character too. But, even if he is good, he can't make me forget about the rest of the music beeing mulched around it.

It looks like, this kind of negative experience is only shared by few peoples. For the great majority of the consumers, those ProAc's seem to sound just fine.

 

[jonathanRD]

Thanks for the replies! My speakers stand about a feet from the wall and about 5 feet from each other and from each wall. I don't find them dull at all, they are quite musical speakers actually.

what I like best about the RS3 is their size, fitting perfectly in such a small room with a very high waf.

Alternatively I could save up a bit more and get some ATC SCM11 or some other standmounters.

Its clearly subjective and based on what you have heard, but FWIW I agree with you regarding the RS3's. Based on a home demo, they were far more musical than the equivalent priced (at the time) Tannoys or the Kef's at the dealers. They were a bit lost in my medium/large room, which is why I eventually picked up a pair of RS5's. Recently a dealer visiting my home to pick up an amp on demo, commented on listening to them that I clearly liked a clear, natural and open sound.

In a small room I would be looking at some better quality and large standmounts.

 

[Fulci]

Was that a bad batch? Were they fully broken in? It seems odd that such a reputable company with such revered speaker offering you such a bad experience.

 

[Fulci]

Which Sonus Fabers have you heard?

Mac

www.macsmusic.blogbubble.net

Sonus Faber Venere 2.5 or 3.0, not sure, but they were big...

Heard them several times, in diferent rooms and diferent places, with different sources and amplification and music and never once impressed me. Found them dull and wooly, too warm. Or they were just not for me.

 

[NSA_watch_my_toilet]

No. I don't believe they were a bad batch. They were fully broken in. It's probably just that we tend to overrate those speakers, or that they will appeal to a very specific demographic of listeners. If you are not one of them, the strong points will become weak points very fast.

It's a little bit like Volkswagen. Those cars have a reputation of reliability, that a knowledgeable car mechanic will not share. The hoaxes and fancy magazine advertisement have created a myth that is not supported by reality.

 

[james_LR90]

As a bit of a left field suggestion I would advise you to take a look at the NVA cube range of speakers. My speakers are of a very similar design and use the NVA drivers and they sound fantastic. Quite unlike any other speaker I've heard.

 

[Macspur]

Which Sonus Fabers have you heard?

Mac

www.macsmusic.blogbubble.net

Sonus Faber Venere 2.5 or 3.0, not sure, but they were big...

Heard them several times, in diferent rooms and diferent places, with different sources and amplification and music and never once impressed me. Found them dull and wooly, too warm. Or they were just not for me.

Fair enough, you can only speak as you find... not heard those models myself though.

Wonder what you'd think of Harbeth.

Mac

www.macsmusic.blogbubble.net

 

[iceman16]

I would suggest PMC GB1i, Twenty23 and Totem Arro's