Pioneer & Focal... will be a nice marriage?

[Evergreen]

Hi all,

Although this will be my first post in those forums, I been reading What Hi-Fi mag from a long time and I have to say that I learnt a lot reading the articles and reviews and the post from the forum.

First of all, please apologize my poor English (I am writing you from Spain).

So here is the thing, after over 8 years of loyal service, I was thinking of replacing my old Denon AVR-3805 for a new one plenty of HDMI connectors.

Right now, all my video sources: BD player (Pioneer BDP-LX71), Xbox 360 and HTPC are connected, via HDMI, directly to the TV set (Pioneer PDP-LX5090H). Regarding the audio section of those video sources, the BD player is connected to the AV receiver thru RCA audio cables, and the Xbox 360 and HTPC are both connected the AV receiver thru optical digital cable.

First thing I want to clarify is that my current A/V receiver is working like the first day… NOT a single problem in those 8 years, but by replacing my current AV receiver for a new one, I expect to get a bunch of new (cool?) features, a cleaner installation with less cables hanging here and there and (maybe) a better sound quality with HD audio formats in the case that the new receiver is able to handle a bit better the sound rather than the BD player.

And because I am truly happy with my Kuro and BD player, and because it is having a very good reviews, my main candidate to replace my old Denon is the Pioneer SC-LX56-K.
My current speakers are Focal-Jmlab Chorus S (front: 716S, central: cc700S and rear: 705S) and the subwoofer is a Mordaunt-Short MS907 (I know, I know a bit old kit, but replacing the speakers ass well is out of the equation right now).
And here is comes the doubt: from what I have read from the What Hi-Fi review of the Pioneer SC-LX86-K, its only con is that “brighter balance requires careful partnering with speakers”.
To be honest, the word “bright” is usually mentioned in the Pioneer receiver reviews (same warning related the bright sound could be read as well in the Pioneer VSX-LX55 review from What Hi-Fi) that I have read in this magazine and other websites.
So, given that I will be changing the receiver to get a better sound, it seems that I should pay attention to the speaker that I paired to this Pioneer. As per above, right now I just cannot replace my current speakers, so those are my questions:

1) Do the LX56 have a bright balance like its big brother the LX86?
2) Is there a general consensus about Focal speakers having “warm/neutral/bright” sound?
3) Should I consider a Yamaha receiver (let say the Yamaha RX-A2020) given that it is said that they tend to have a warmer sound?

OK, that was long first post… again, please apologize my bad English.

Cheers.

 

[CnoEvil]

Evergreen, welcome to the forum........and I see you have some very nice kit there.

Bright is subjective, so I can only come at this from my perspective and taste.

I find Pioneer AV amps sound too forward and tiring to listen to......I'm an Arcam fan, which I find more musical. Coming from Denon, I would be careful about going with Pioneer, unless you can give it a decent demo with your Focals. What initially sounds exciting, can become tiring after an hour or so.

Focal are also (imo) a forward / neutral sounding speaker, that can be provoked into brightness when paired with an amp that has the same characteristics. If it was me, I would be looking at Arcam (most musical), Denon (which you like) and Yamaha (making great amps atm).

The usual advice applies......don't buy without a demo, preferably into your speakers; but at the very least into Focal speakers.

 

[Evergreen]

Evergreen, welcome to the forum........and I see you have some very nice kit there.

Bright is subjective, so I can only come at this from my perspective and taste.

I find Pioneer AV amps sound too forward and tiring to listen to......I'm an Arcam fan, which I find more musical. Coming from Denon, I would be careful about going with Pioneer, unless you can give it a decent demo with your Focals. What initially sounds exciting, can become tiring after an hour or so.

Focal are also (imo) a forward / neutral sounding speaker, that can be provoked into brightness when paired with an amp that has the same characteristics. If it was me, I would be looking at Arcam (most musical), Denon (which you like) and Yamaha (making great amps atm).

The usual advice applies......don't buy without a demo, preferably into your speakers; but at the very least into Focal speakers.

Hi CnoEvil,

Thank you very much for your input. I realize that this matter is more a question of taste than a mathematic rule…

First thing first: demos are something really difficult to get in Spain. You will hardly ever find a few stores (and only in really big cities) willing to perform the kind of test that you are so used to there in the UK. I currently live in a 125000 people city and there are literally no stores here to test my Focal so I will have to trust in what I read from people/media/forums that I trust…

And like you said, when it comes to sound and even more if we talk about concepts like “bright” or “warm” everything become more difficult to evaluate.

On one side, I REALLY want to buy this Pioneer SC-LX56-K mainly because the very nice reviews but also (call me stupid) because I like the idea of match it with both my Pioneer BD player and TV set.

But on the other hand there is bright thing…

Back in the 2004 when I bought both the AV receiver and the speakers, I was recommended the Focal because they were supposed to perform well with both music and cinema. Also I was told by the salesman that they had a well-balanced sound…

I still have a copy of a couple of reviews from this year. I copy you some fragments:

“Historically, Focal.JMlab designs had a reputation for being forward and lean sounding, qualities that can work supremely well with sympathetic systems and in the right rooms, but which often sound unpalatably hard otherwise. Not so with the new Chorus S range – the balance is much more neutral. The system has a real glow of warmth and grace through the upper bass and midband, while the treble is intrinsically finely detailed without being bright or edgy”.

“Tonally, the Chorus S system is near neutral, with a well-developed mid and upper bass. It has an accurately presented midband without the upfront presentation common to many French speakers and a smooth, finely detailed treble.

The result is a system which is clear without emphasizing detail; which is smooth and accurate; and which is also unusually transparent”.

Again, like you said, it is always a matter of taste… I thought (and I might be wrong because I am not an expert at all) that Focal (or at least this specific S range) had a neutral balance that could match with this brighter sound that the Pioneer receivers are supposed to have…

Honestly, I am still have to rethink the whole thing, but more opinions are truly welcome.

Anyone here have paired Focal speaker with Pioneer receivers?

Thanks all again for reading.

 

[CnoEvil]

Yamaha have also had great reviews recently:

Hi-Fi World's best AV amp 2012 went to the RX-A3010

I have heard a number of Focals, especially in the Utopia range. They are forward, revealing and exciting, but can be fatiguing if paired wrongly, especially if you are susceptible to brightness.

IMO It is not worth the risk if you have to buy blind. I can see how your Denon would work very well.....do not assume that a 5* product will automatcally meet your needs.

Anyway, I hope you get more thoughts on this from someone who has heard this match.

 

[plastic penguin]

Pioneer and Focal wouldn't be my first choice as the ideal combo. I've heard JM Lab and standalone Focal, 714S JM Lab and 714V just as Focal, and they are similar to Monitor Audio Silver range - both need careful consideration with partnering.

The Focal Chorus 714s are neutral but whether the sound is something you can live with will, in the main, depend on your room acoustics.

 

[ean]

Morning!

IMO - the Pioneer amplifiers are fantastic - but they are very revealing! They pack lots of features, like the Denon, Yamaha & Onkyo.

I would recommend either Rotel or Arcam for matching AV amplifiers to your focals. They offer very good value for money, no 'gimicks' like iPad/Android control. Just good, traditional, musical amplifiers.

All IMO of course...

 

[Oliverswing77]

I've got Focal speakers too, more especifically the 816W SE (fronts), the CC800W SE (center) and the 806V (rears). The rears are on the bright side and sound amazing with warm electronics. I tried them in isolation on the end of a Marantz SR7005 and they sounded amazing. The 816W SE on the other hand sounded terrible on their own in 2 ch stereo. But I very much assume that the Special Editions on the 8xx series are a bit more laidback than the regular V edition therefore I still find my fronts a bit too laidback for my liking on the end of my Yamaha RX-A2010 and I'm now considering the LX85 from Pioneer. With yours the Yamaha would most likely be a perfect match as the 716S which, although not as bright as some other Focal speakers, are definitely slightly more forward than than the 816W SE. But the Pioneer would probably be a good partner as well but the RX-A2020 is a slightly higher end receiver and would be the less risky option especially if you're buying without demoing.

 

[bigboss]

Morning!

IMO - the Pioneer amplifiers are fantastic - but they are very revealing! They pack lots of features, like the Denon, Yamaha & Onkyo.

I would recommend either Rotel or Arcam for matching AV amplifiers to your focals. They offer very good value for money, no 'gimicks' like iPad/Android control. Just good, traditional, musical amplifiers.

All IMO of course...

Of course, you'll be dealing with Arcam gremlins as well.

 

[Deleted member 2457]

It used to be the case that if you buy a Pioneer amp with THX ultra 2 plus, they would sound good in most systems, if this is still the case I don't know. I haven't heard a new Pioneer amp for a while. If you bought a Pioneer amp without THX ultra 2 plus it could be very hit and miss with the sound. But this was the case in the old days.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi Evergreen

Anthem AV amplification is also worth considering. Their amps incorporate Anthem's superb room correction technology (ARC) which enhances their already excellent performance to give an even cleaner, faster, tighter, punchier, dynamic and powerful presentation without sounding bright, cold or harsh.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[pioneer7]

I Dont think buying a pioneer amp with out THX will have any effect on sound quality, not for the average user anyway and even then it is debatable as to whether it makes that much difference, all THX is..is a set of standards, and you pay for the badge, but thats IMO, as stated the Athem is very good, and also check out Cambrdge Audio no fancy gimmicks just quality sound. Assuming you can get them in Spain. 8)

 

[Evergreen]

Hi again,

Thanks all for your opinions... after reading your inputs and getting some extra info from different forums and websites, I am starting to change my mind: the "bright" thing is quoted in almost every review that I have read related Pioneer receivers, and there is also a general consensus about Yamaha having a more neutral balance.

I was reluctant about Yamaha because I never had a single part of A/V equipment of this branch, and I always thought that it was more oriented to the multichanel sound and was not that good for stereo music (which is also important for me)... but after reading a few reviews about the new Aventage serie, I change my mind completely.

So now, I am considering the Yamaha RX-A2020 to replace my old Denon. I believe that it will match better with my Focal speakers and I guess that it should improve the sound of my current receiver.

Ragarding other suggestions from you (like Rotel or Arcam), I understand that they are very nice branchs when it comes handle stereo music, but I am also looking for good performance in the multichanel sound field, and I guess that Yamaha (or Denon itself) perform better for both multichanel and music areas (please correct me if I am wrong).

 

[bigboss]

Yamaha knows more about music than what a lot of people think. After all, it manufactures musical instruments as well:

http://uk.yamaha.com/en/products/musical-instruments/