Hi! I've come across a Pioneer A400 described as pristine, boxed, and with original receipt (it's 15-years old and going for £110. Now I'm fully aware of the "legendary" status this amp enjoys, but I have noticed in reviews elsewhere that it has at times been described as "harsh". Is this true?, or fair? Thanks peeps.
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Pioneer A400. Harsh Sounding?
- Thread starter Sizzers
- Start date
i own an A400 and a A400GTE and neither of them sound in any way harsh. £110 is a reasonable price to pay for a pristine example and the amps still have a lot of life left in them. They are also great fun to modify if you decide to go down that route.
matthewpiano
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- Nov 23, 2007
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It is a superb amplifier. In my system it doesn't sound in the slightest bit harsh or thin.
It is partnering and synergy that is key. The A400 needs a very high quality source behind it, and very high quality speakers. One of the best sources for it is the Marantz CD63MkII KI-Signature which was another affordable component that punched massively above its price point. My NAD works very well with it indeed but I still plan to go back to a CD63MkII KI-Sig eventually simply because it is a match made in heaven. Mission speakers are also a great match - the 760iSE and 780 were popular choices as were the 751s. Your Tannoys would be fine for a start but you will need to upgrade them in the long run to get the best out of the amp.
Get these things right and none of the current budget amps can touch the Pioneer. I A/B demo'd it against a Nait 5i (which I think is a superb amp for its £780 price point) recently and preferred the Pioneer. It really is that good.
It is partnering and synergy that is key. The A400 needs a very high quality source behind it, and very high quality speakers. One of the best sources for it is the Marantz CD63MkII KI-Signature which was another affordable component that punched massively above its price point. My NAD works very well with it indeed but I still plan to go back to a CD63MkII KI-Sig eventually simply because it is a match made in heaven. Mission speakers are also a great match - the 760iSE and 780 were popular choices as were the 751s. Your Tannoys would be fine for a start but you will need to upgrade them in the long run to get the best out of the amp.
Get these things right and none of the current budget amps can touch the Pioneer. I A/B demo'd it against a Nait 5i (which I think is a superb amp for its £780 price point) recently and preferred the Pioneer. It really is that good.
The A400 was in the vanguard of the lean and detailed trend, which means you do need to take care with speaker matching.
Never been a fan of this amp for that reason. It can sound fatiguing in some setups.
Never been a fan of this amp for that reason. It can sound fatiguing in some setups.
matthewpiano
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The other thing is that it benefits greatly from being switched on about half an hour before you start listening.
Well I had totally given up on the used hi-fi market; too much aggravation for me plus uncertainty.
Was due to buy a PM6003 next week until I literally stumbled across this by accident. Speakers were most definitely next on my list in amy case, but may have to review my shortlist if this comes off.
Was due to buy a PM6003 next week until I literally stumbled across this by accident. Speakers were most definitely next on my list in amy case, but may have to review my shortlist if this comes off.
matthewpiano
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- Nov 23, 2007
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Sizzers:Well I had totally given up on the used hi-fi market; too much aggravation for me plus uncertainty.
Was due to buy a PM6003 next week until I literally stumbled across this by accident. Speakers were most definitely next on my list in amy case, but may have to review my shortlist if this comes off.
I had given up on older gear as well, but I just couldn't settle with the newer kit that I could afford.
I've gone from giving up on used hi-fi to really enjoying a system that uses a 20 year-old amplifier and speakers of probably similar vintage, and I still plan to buy a CD63MkII KI-Sig when funds allow and I find a good example.
The turntable I'm looking at is considerably older again - more like 1960s!!
The beauty of the A400 is that if you really don't get on with it, you will have no problem selling it on and recovering your money.
Was due to buy a PM6003 next week until I literally stumbled across this by accident. Speakers were most definitely next on my list in amy case, but may have to review my shortlist if this comes off.
I had given up on older gear as well, but I just couldn't settle with the newer kit that I could afford.
I've gone from giving up on used hi-fi to really enjoying a system that uses a 20 year-old amplifier and speakers of probably similar vintage, and I still plan to buy a CD63MkII KI-Sig when funds allow and I find a good example.
The turntable I'm looking at is considerably older again - more like 1960s!!
The beauty of the A400 is that if you really don't get on with it, you will have no problem selling it on and recovering your money.
Al ears
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Hi, I, like many more out ther it would seem, had an A400 and Marantz CD63MkII KI-Signature pairing for years and never in all that time would I describe it as harsh (speakers included some Heybrooks, KEFs and finally Tannoy 11L's).
I agree that giving it a wee while to 'warm-up' was certainly beneficial and am pretty sure if you get the CD player right then most modern speakers would fit in quite nicely. Whilst I am very aware that speakers are very greatly a matter of personal preference particularly when trying to abapt to the space requirements of a modern house) I am sure you willl attempt to demo as many as you can.
It never ceases to amaze me the number of rear-ported 'mini monitors' that are produced that work best when sited at least 0.5m from the rear wall. How these are intended to fit into a modern house is beyond me!
Go for the A400 and enjoy, my old one is still going strong (donated to younger bruv years ago).
I agree that giving it a wee while to 'warm-up' was certainly beneficial and am pretty sure if you get the CD player right then most modern speakers would fit in quite nicely. Whilst I am very aware that speakers are very greatly a matter of personal preference particularly when trying to abapt to the space requirements of a modern house) I am sure you willl attempt to demo as many as you can.
It never ceases to amaze me the number of rear-ported 'mini monitors' that are produced that work best when sited at least 0.5m from the rear wall. How these are intended to fit into a modern house is beyond me!
Go for the A400 and enjoy, my old one is still going strong (donated to younger bruv years ago).
I wouldn't describe it as harsh either, but it does require careful speaker matching, especially with modern speakers, some of which focus on being forward and detailed, at the expense of the midrange and at the cost of listener fatigue.
Talking about this to a speaker designer the other day who told of his experiences going around the various hifi shops trying to flog his speakers. Almost all the time he was told they weren't forward enough - you have a couple of minutes to impress most customers, and the way to do that is through forward, bassy speakers. All of which leads me to think demos over two hours, preferably at home, are a must.
Talking about this to a speaker designer the other day who told of his experiences going around the various hifi shops trying to flog his speakers. Almost all the time he was told they weren't forward enough - you have a couple of minutes to impress most customers, and the way to do that is through forward, bassy speakers. All of which leads me to think demos over two hours, preferably at home, are a must.
Well I'm not looking for bass or "warmth" in either amp or speakers.
I have a small listening area playing at moderate volumes, and detail is the imperative. Had been looking for an A65+ but had enough of the decidedly dodges replies I received from sellers on flea bay. Wasn't even looking down the second hand route anymore but stumbled across this purely by accident. It's got to happen yet, though!
I have a small listening area playing at moderate volumes, and detail is the imperative. Had been looking for an A65+ but had enough of the decidedly dodges replies I received from sellers on flea bay. Wasn't even looking down the second hand route anymore but stumbled across this purely by accident. It's got to happen yet, though!
No, you miss the point. He was just saying you don't have long to impress the listener in a Hifi shop, and the way to do it wasn't by pushing balanced speakers.
Warmth doesn't come into it - a recessed midrange just points to lack of balance, that's all. Most of the speakers mentioned in this thread all fall into the well-balanced category.
Warmth doesn't come into it - a recessed midrange just points to lack of balance, that's all. Most of the speakers mentioned in this thread all fall into the well-balanced category.
Sizzers:Hi! I've come across a Pioneer A400 described as pristine, boxed, and with original receipt (it's 15-years old and going for £110.
Now I'm fully aware of the "legendary" status this amp enjoys, but I have noticed in reviews elsewhere that it has at times been described as "harsh". Is this true?, or fair?
Thanks peeps.
Have you snapped this up yet? There's a decent one on Ebay for a whisker off £80. Not quite mint, but probably a VG+/Ex (slight mark to the lower front fascia, but you could live with it).
Also, is it definitely the 400 and not the 400X? IIRC, the 400 was out in the early 90s, but had stopped by 1995...that now being 15 years old...have you seen it yet? Worth checking as the 400X apparently isn't the amp that the 400 apparently is!
Now I'm fully aware of the "legendary" status this amp enjoys, but I have noticed in reviews elsewhere that it has at times been described as "harsh". Is this true?, or fair?
Thanks peeps.
Have you snapped this up yet? There's a decent one on Ebay for a whisker off £80. Not quite mint, but probably a VG+/Ex (slight mark to the lower front fascia, but you could live with it).
Also, is it definitely the 400 and not the 400X? IIRC, the 400 was out in the early 90s, but had stopped by 1995...that now being 15 years old...have you seen it yet? Worth checking as the 400X apparently isn't the amp that the 400 apparently is!
the record spot:Sizzers:Hi! I've come across a Pioneer A400 described as pristine, boxed, and with original receipt (it's 15-years old and going for £110.
Now I'm fully aware of the "legendary" status this amp enjoys, but I have noticed in reviews elsewhere that it has at times been described as "harsh". Is this true?, or fair?
Thanks peeps.
Have you snapped this up yet? There's a decent one on Ebay for a whisker off £80. Not quite mint, but probably a VG+/Ex (slight mark to the lower front fascia, but you could live with it).
Also, is it definitely the 400 and not the 400X? IIRC, the 400 was out in the early 90s, but had stopped by 1995...that now being 15 years old...have you seen it yet? Worth checking as the 400X apparently isn't the amp that the 400 apparently is!
Yes, I checked that! lol. Any help with my other thread please?
Now I'm fully aware of the "legendary" status this amp enjoys, but I have noticed in reviews elsewhere that it has at times been described as "harsh". Is this true?, or fair?
Thanks peeps.
Have you snapped this up yet? There's a decent one on Ebay for a whisker off £80. Not quite mint, but probably a VG+/Ex (slight mark to the lower front fascia, but you could live with it).
Also, is it definitely the 400 and not the 400X? IIRC, the 400 was out in the early 90s, but had stopped by 1995...that now being 15 years old...have you seen it yet? Worth checking as the 400X apparently isn't the amp that the 400 apparently is!
Yes, I checked that! lol. Any help with my other thread please?
Well I've just picked it up and it is truly IMMACULATE!
Blemish free, original box, manual, guarantee registration card, original receipt. It's even got an advertising flyer for the then Pioneer LaserDisc range and the plastic protector for the pins on the plug!
He also had a pair of boxed Mission 780SE's bought with the amp. Also immaculate, and although I didn't hear them thought I couldn't go wrong at £35! Setting the amp up now, although the speakers will have to wait as they need a jumper plate/cables.
Blemish free, original box, manual, guarantee registration card, original receipt. It's even got an advertising flyer for the then Pioneer LaserDisc range and the plastic protector for the pins on the plug!
He also had a pair of boxed Mission 780SE's bought with the amp. Also immaculate, and although I didn't hear them thought I couldn't go wrong at £35! Setting the amp up now, although the speakers will have to wait as they need a jumper plate/cables.
matthewpiano
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- Nov 23, 2007
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I will as soon as I get some jumpers.
Just playing it through my Tannoy's at the minute, but even so my first impressions are just.....AWESOME!
Will obviously see how I get on with the Mission's, but I think the Lektor's would be a perfect match for this set-up.
Just playing it through my Tannoy's at the minute, but even so my first impressions are just.....AWESOME!
Will obviously see how I get on with the Mission's, but I think the Lektor's would be a perfect match for this set-up.
maxflinn:£145 for a very good amp , and speakers , hard to beat that ....
Well didn't go for the speakers, they just happened to be there! lol
Well didn't go for the speakers, they just happened to be there! lol
i think sizzers means he didnt go with the intention of getting the speakers , but got them once he,d seen them , as he mentions above that he cant hook them up yet ...so he must have them , apparently
the record spot:That's a pity; would've been worth picking up as it'd have made an interesting comparison!
Bit confused here as if you meant did I pick up the speakers then yes, I did (didn't know he was selling them until we got chatting).
Just need jumper leads to try them out that's all.
Bit confused here as if you meant did I pick up the speakers then yes, I did (didn't know he was selling them until we got chatting).
Just need jumper leads to try them out that's all.
I misunderstood - I read that you weren't going for the speakers and they happened to be there, but reading your earlier post I see you bought them after all. Good call. Smart spending there!
I found the A400 great with CD's, however, when it came to vinyl my 25 year old Mission Cyrus One was far superior where that was concerned. Interestingly, the Naim Stageline only just beat the phono stage of the Cyrus. Described as a giant killer!
Pink Triangle/Acromat/RB300/Elys2 (serviced at Cymbiosis)
Naim 112x,150,CD5, Flatcap, Stageline, NACA5, Neat motive 2's
Pink Triangle/Acromat/RB300/Elys2 (serviced at Cymbiosis)
Naim 112x,150,CD5, Flatcap, Stageline, NACA5, Neat motive 2's
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