Pioneer 6090 plasma. jitter/judder problems

[gar1975]

hi all....

i am hoping there is someone out there that could help me.... i appear to be having problems with motion jitter/judder, i am yet to play a bluray that isnt badly affected... now i know that there are some seriously dodgy bluray transfers, but not 1 disc without this issue?? i have 50+ bluray discs...anyone out there have this tv with the same problem? could it be a technical fault? a settings issue? i do have the same problem with sky, but dont really count that, as their picture quality appears to change on a daily basis..

i contacted pioneer & they sent someone out, he said he couldnt see a problem, and that it was much the same as other tv's.... i thought the pioneers were better than other tv's?? he mentioned turning on the 100htz, but he didnt know how to do it... (faith in engineer dropped) they are going to change the video processing unit? !

any experts or other owners that might be able to shine some light on this issue??? would be pulling my hair out... if i had any

cheers!

 

[aliEnRIK]

I cant remember all the settings on the tv, but make sure yours is similar to these ~
Movie Mode

Contrast 36
Brightness +1
Colour 0
Tint 0
Sharpness -12

PRO ADJUST

PURE CINEMA
Fim Mode OFF (SKY) or Advanced (BLUE RAY HD) OFF (SD DVD)
TXT Opt OFF

Intellegent Mode OFF

PICTURE DETAIL

DRE OFF
BLACK LEVEL OFF
ACL OFF
Enhancer Mode 2
Gamma 2

CTI OFF

Colour Space 2

Noise Reduction All Off

Also go through the advanced settings. IIRC, theres some weird ones like ORBIT or something? Switch off everything you dont need
Drive Mode : 2

Room light sensor : Off

Energy save : Off

 

[gar1975]

cheers for that... have done what you suggested, however, surely the settings for sky would need to be different to the settings for bluray, no?

also, when you say switch off everything you don't need... i do know what i do or dont need lol

i will try out a bluray later and see if these settings have made any difference...

 

[The_Lhc]

It might help if you explained in a bit more detail exactly what effect you're seeing, what sort of scenes it's most prevalent in etc etc.

 

[Frank Harvey]

If you're playing Bluray films at 24fps, you will more than likely notice some judder. 100/200/600Hz etc built into screens nowadays does help with this, but it just looks wrong to me as it makes it look like video rather than film, and the likes of 600Hz just makes people look like they're moving twice as fast.

If you do have 24fps on, try turning it off and see if you get the same issue.

 

[TKratz]

FrankHarveyHiFi:

If you're playing Bluray films at 24fps, you will more than likely notice some judder. 100/200/600Hz etc built into screens nowadays does help with this, but it just looks wrong to me as it makes it look like video rather than film, and the likes of 600Hz just makes people look like they're moving twice as fast.

3 things:
1) As you write 24fps will not, contrary to what many believe, provide a 100% smooth picture even with compatible equipment.
2) Agree that 100/200/400 makes things look 'wrong'.
3) 600Hz on plasma screens is not comparable with the 100/200/400 Hz systems on LCD screens, as this is not the refresh rate of the screen (all plasma's use 100 Hz refresh rate). The 600 Hz is the so called sub field drive (frequence by which the colours are mixed).

 

[Frank Harvey]

That's what I'm saying - 24fps isn't going to give you smooth panning etc - although I don't notice it much on my projector. The panasonic screens we've had in store with 600Hz get rid of judder, but looks wrong to me.

 

[The_Lhc]

I had a play with my KRP-500a the first time I watched 2001 on Blu-ray, the scenes where the Jupiter ship glides slowly across the screen were noticably juddering. I managed to get it a bit better by fiddling with the Drive Modes (not sure they're available on the PDP models) and other settings but as you say, it wasn't perfect, with or without the 24p in place.

The one that gets me is the shimmering I get on vertical scrolling, typically end credits, they'll scroll perfectly smoothly for a few seconds and then shimmy their way up the screen (to the point where you can't actually read them) for a few seconds and then go smooth again. I even noticed it watching Wimbledon on BBCHD the last two weeks, the action would stutter very quickly, with the ball not moving smoothly across the screen but would then be fine.

What I only realised on Sunday is that I don't see this when watching Blu-ray, I watched the entire end credits of District 9 without any shimmering at all, so it appears it only happens when watching Sky.

 

[TKratz]

the_lhc: I even noticed it watching Wimbledon on BBCHD the last two weeks, the action would stutter very quickly, with the ball not moving smoothly across the screen but would then be fine. What I only realised on Sunday is that I don't see this when watching Blu-ray, I watched the entire end credits of District 9 without any shimmering at all, so it appears it only happens when watching Sky.

The uneven movement by the ball in tennis (don't you see it in football also?) is most likely caused by the intrapolation system of the TV (Panasonic calls this IFC for intelligent frame creation. Not sure what Pioneer call it). I never understood why these things are implemented on plasma screens, as they are fast eneogh to manage without, but they probably need to keep the marketing department happy...
Anyway, these system do more harm than good in my opinion and is better left off.

 

[hammill]

TKratz:

the_lhc: I even noticed it watching Wimbledon on BBCHD the last two weeks, the action would stutter very quickly, with the ball not moving smoothly across the screen but would then be fine. What I only realised on Sunday is that I don't see this when watching Blu-ray, I watched the entire end credits of District 9 without any shimmering at all, so it appears it only happens when watching Sky.

The uneven movement by the ball in tennis (don't you see it in football also?) is most likely caused by the intrapolation system of the TV (Panasonic calls this IFC for intelligent frame creation. Not sure what Pioneer call it). I never understood why these things are implemented on plasma screens, as they are fast eneogh to manage without, but they probably need to keep the marketing department happy...
Anyway, these system do more harm than good in my opinion and is better left off.
Do you mean interpolation?

 

[The_Lhc]

TKratz:
the_lhc: I even noticed it watching Wimbledon on BBCHD the last two weeks, the action would stutter very quickly, with the ball not moving smoothly across the screen but would then be fine. What I only realised on Sunday is that I don't see this when watching Blu-ray, I watched the entire end credits of District 9 without any shimmering at all, so it appears it only happens when watching Sky.

The uneven movement by the ball in tennis (don't you see it in football also?) is most likely caused by the intrapolation system of the TV (Panasonic calls this IFC for intelligent frame creation. Not sure what Pioneer call it). I never understood why these things are implemented on plasma screens, as they are fast eneogh to manage without, but they probably need to keep the marketing department happy...
Anyway, these system do more harm than good in my opinion and is better left off.

I have got all that switched off and that's not what I'm talking about anyway, as I said this effect only occurs for a few seconds at a time, then it goes away for a while, and then it comes back, it's not the constant shuddering you're talking about. I don't notice it on football because that movement is side to side, this effect only seems to present itself on vertical movement, ie the tennis ball moving up and down the screen or credits rolling up the screen.

I was reasonably convinced at one point that it was interference, possibly on the mains, however I would have expected to see the same thing whilst watching blu-ray in that case, and I don't, only with Sky.

 

[TKratz]

hammill:TKratz:

the_lhc: I even noticed it watching Wimbledon on BBCHD the last two weeks, the action would stutter very quickly, with the ball not moving smoothly across the screen but would then be fine. What I only realised on Sunday is that I don't see this when watching Blu-ray, I watched the entire end credits of District 9 without any shimmering at all, so it appears it only happens when watching Sky.

The uneven movement by the ball in tennis (don't you see it in football also?) is most likely caused by the intrapolation system of the TV (Panasonic calls this IFC for intelligent frame creation. Not sure what Pioneer call it). I never understood why these things are implemented on plasma screens, as they are fast eneogh to manage without, but they probably need to keep the marketing department happy...
Anyway, these system do more harm than good in my opinion and is better left off.

Do you mean interpolation?

You might be right Hammill. I am a bit uncertain about the English word.
But it seems this was not the problem anyway.

 

[aliEnRIK]

gar1975:
cheers for that... have done what you suggested, however, surely the settings for sky would need to be different to the settings for bluray, no?

also, when you say switch off everything you don't need... i do know what i do or dont need lol

i will try out a bluray later and see if these settings have made any difference...

There is a set standard for electronics, so if they deviate (Which they shouldnt do) then youd need to alter settings. Regardless, what your talking about would only effect the colours, not the problem your having.

 

[gar1975]

thank you all for your input/views...

the problem has now gone, the video processing unit was replaced, and i now hardly see any jitter/judder, even with ice age 3, which has to be one of the worst bluray transfers ever!

thanks again guys!

 

[aliEnRIK]

gar1975:
thank you all for your input/views...

the problem has now gone, the video processing unit was replaced, and i now hardly see any jitter/judder, even with ice age 3, which has to be one of the worst bluray transfers ever!

thanks again guys!

I thought the techie said everything was fine?

 

[gar1975]

well he thought it was when i got him out a couple of weeks ago, but i insisted that it wasn't, so they agreed to change the video processing unit. it was because he said there was nothing wrong that i thought i would ask on here to see if anyone else had the same problem, because after feeling sick when watching certain films, having the engineers from the shop i bought the set say that my problem was much worse than it should be, and again with the guys from my local sevenoaks said the same when they came to set up my sound... after the engineer came and didnt know how to find the settings he was looking for, i started to worry.... i was also worried that i was going to be charged by pioneer for replacing the unit, wanted some back up... just incase

hope that settles your suspicious mind

 

[Pindi]

I wonder if that's a common problem with Kuros, I do notice some annoying shimmering occasionally on my 5090.

Can you elaborate further on the problem you had, gar1975?

 

[gar1975]

it was motion judder, on close to camera slow pans left to right or up and down, almost like the picture was 'sticking' the engineer didnt think it was a problem, but agreed to changed the video processing unit, i'm guessing because they get paid more to come back again & perform a repair... anyway, it solved my problem. and also it stopped another issue, that i didnt even realise was an issue, until the new unit was installed.

 

[The_Lhc]

gar1975:and also it stopped another issue, that i didnt even realise was an issue, until the new unit was installed.

Well, don't get all coy on us now! What was it?

 

[Pindi]

Thanks for that.

I don't get too much judder, mostly shimmering.

What was the other problem?

 

[gar1975]

it wasn't a huge 'problem' & again the engineer said it was normal .... when bringing up the home menu, while watching something, then choosing picture, the brightness of the picture would jump up, and again when clicking on 'user' to swop to say... movie or optimum, before choosing the movie/optimum option the brightness would jump up again.... well it don't do it any more

 

[The_Lhc]

Uuurrr, that sounds proper dodgy, my KRP doesn't do that, glad you got it all sorted, excellent stuff.

 

[Pindi]

Right, I think I've got the same problem.

Did you contact Pioneer direct, gar1975?