Pc vs Disc player - unexpected results - where to go next?

[Overdose]

Should this be a suprise or not?

Having just started ripping my music collection to FLAC on the NAS, I thought I'd see what differences there were between the Pc playing the FLAC files from the NAS over wireless vs playing the original disc copy on my OPPO.

Nothing overly scientific, me on the sofa in the sweet spot, switching between sources with the amp remote.

Music selection: Cowboy Junkies - Lay it down, Dave Brubeck Quartet - Time out and AC/DC - Back in black.

FLAC from NAS to Pc wirelssly - Pc through 3.5mm/dual RCA generic cable to amp.

CD from OPPO through CA interconnects to amp.

Having read various reviews, how to's and other peoples experiences, I was expecting rather different results, ie a 'night and day' difference between the two. However, there seems to be no perceptible difference between the sources in sound quality other than the Pc being a bit louder.

This test put my 7 year old plus, technology, on a par with the so called 'giant' killing OPPO. The Pc is a P4 with a Soundblaster Live card and is far from quiet. Not saying that the OPPO is bad, more that the Pc is suprisingly good.

This brings me to a few questions.

Are these results only suprising to me?

To get a noticeable improvement I envisaged an Arcam 137/139 and a V-DAC for the Pc/Sonos (when I get it) or would it perhaps be best to stick with my OPPO and invest in a better DAC?

Maybe I have a cable issue? None of my cables are particularly expensive/special, perhaps my best cable is my own DIY interconnect

 

[CnoEvil]

I am certainly not a "techy" but here is my view.

The "rip" should be error free compared to a CD. At this stage (on either) it's still in the digital domain.

How well that gets turns into music depends on the quality of the DAC, and in the case of the player, the quality of the transport as well (streaming has no moving parts to cause interference and isn't error correcting in real time).

If you are impressed with the sound from your laptop at the moment, just wait till you hear it with a decent DAC eg. V-dac (cheaper) to Rega (dearer)

Cheaper digital cables work fine - just choose a well made one that try to keep the 75 ohms through the plug (Atlas/Ecosse)

 

[Overdose]

I need to get a music player first. The Pc is just an interim measure, used mainly for the ripping process and its sound card only has 3.5mm jacks, being a budget card.

I understand your thoughts about the benefits of error correction, but I'm quite suprised that the OPPO didn't pip the Pc.

 

[Overdose]

Deleted, random double post.

 

[CnoEvil]

So am I.

 

[Overdose]

Just swapped out the CA 'Arctic' interconnects from the OPPO and fitted Monster 'Standard High Performance', no difference to the OPPO sound.

I adjusted the Pc sound level to match volumes from sources this time and they're still neck and neck.

I'm going to try ripping Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon hybrid disc and compare the FLAC rip of the CD layer to the OPPO SACD playback.

 

[Anonymous]

I wouldnt expect there to be much of a difference for 2 channel cd quality music.

U are still playing the music through the amp in the end, just making use of the DAC in the soundcard. A DAC only plays a small (but important) part of the process.

The 2 DACS in the DACmagic for example cost less than £3 each.

 

[Overdose]

Yes, but the two sources using different DACs are so similar in sound quality that I can discern no differences. Even playing the SACD on the OPPO and the CD rip on the Pc did not return any noticeable differences.

The solution so far is pointing towards a good universal player.

 

[Superaintit]

Where to go next?

Computer + dac of course

Anyway, I may be biased as that's the route I chose. A good dac like the arcam RDac -which I own- or the rega dac -which seems to get rave customer ratings, will give a nice quality boost.

I must say though I'm surprised you say your pc without dac is equal to the oppo dvd player. In order of worst to best I would expect: pc without dac, dvd player, pc with dac. Where cd replay fits in here is upto your ears to decide. I think the user interface of a mac is great and only buy new tracks that are high resolution, so the choice was obvious.

 

[Messiah]

I must say though I'm surprised you say your pc without dac is equal to the oppo dvd player.

I have had a similar result with an iPod and Onkyo analogue dock versus a Cyrus CD player. The difference between the two was negliable. End result - CD player was sold a long time ago and now music is netbook based.

 

[Overdose]

Thanks for the replies guys. I figure that a universal player at £170ish retail when new, that is capable of playing most disc types, is not going to major in audio playback.

My music collection will eventually be transferred to the NAS and will most likely be played through a Sonos. I will still need a DVD player for films and to provide universal disc playback for the few SACD and DVD-A discs that I have, so a very good universal player will be the next step, which should give a noticeable improvement and act as a benchmark for a DAC to at least equal for music reproduction.

I don't want to dip into the DAC world just yet, until my DIY DAC project is finished. If it turns out to be as good as I think it will, there will be no need to buy an off the shelf DAC.

I know that there can be huge differences in source sound quality, so I'm aiming high in this area before sorting out my speakers.

 

[Anonymous]

"Yes, but the two sources using different DACs are so similar in sound quality that I can discern no differences. Even playing the SACD on the OPPO and the CD rip on the Pc did not return any noticeable differences.

The solution so far is pointing towards a good universal player."

For a good universal player, can I suggest a quiet PC, with 24-bit sound card? The sound quality is remarkably good if used with quality cables.

 

[Overdose]

Will it play SACD & DVD-A?

Do you happen to know how it would compare to a DV137/139?

 

[idc]

You have discovered a joy of hifi, that surprisingly cheap sources acan equal much more expensive ones, particularly where it comes to the handling of digital info. Digital is digital and the differences start with conversion to analogue and really get going with your speakers.

 

[Overdose]

My OPPO is, to be fair, budget end and will eventually be replaced out of neccessity.

I will be streaming my music from a NAS and was looking for a media player and DAC solution. It would seem that my answer might be the OPPO BDP95 or some such similar. I can stream to it and make use of its Sabre DAC.

Factoring in the price of a used DV139, a Sonos/Squeezebox and upmarket DAC it runs pretty close to, or more than the '95' and I still wouldn't have Blu Ray.

After that of course, I'm then into a whole new can of worms that is, speaker choice.

 

[bretty]

Hmmm, this thread got me thinking. I have one of these media players, which I use for watching films:

I connected the analogue outs to my preamp and played some flac files through my Stereo set up. Suprisingly, it sounds really good! It's not a million miles behind the sound of my CDP. It's not as airy, but it seems to have all the detail. And this is with using a cheap (£80) media player. I'd imagine using a dedicated external DAC could bring great results. I guess i'm having my eyes opened as to why people are getting rid of their CDPs.

I'm liking the convenience of selecting tracks and adjusting volume from the sofa. Lazy nirvana

 

[Anonymous]

For DVD-A, you'll need something like Cyberlink's PowerDVD Version 8(not a later version - DVD-A was dropped from #9)...

SACD is harder altogether; some early PS3 s played it, I think but I don't think that you can play it on PC....which is a shame.

Looks like your OPPO DV-981HD will stay a while...

 

[Overdose]

The DIY DAC has been modified to upgrade all digital path capacitors and the power transformer upgraded. Still no discernable differences.

Next step will be to run the signal tube a tubed preamp section and avoid the OP amp on the DAC board. The verdict is still out there so far, but it's looking more and more like the major sound improvements are to be had with the amplification side of the DAC. I will update when the next stage in the project is complete. (If anyone's interested or not

).

Universal player still on the cards, but down on the priority list.