After a truly disastrous experience with three Philips 9664 LCDs I finally decided that plasma was the way to go. I have a 42" V10 arriving on Friday and I'm now reading horror stories all over the web regarding rising black levels after 150-200 hours of use. rubbish grey blacks is one of the reasons for my defection from LCD and it sounds like these Panasonics give you the greys of LCD at the price of a Plasma...
Panasonic G10 / V10 - Black level issues??
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The_Lhc
Well-known member
150-200 hours is about the burn in time for most plasmas, so you should expect to have to recalibrate your screen after that time.
digigriffin
Well-known member
I have had a 42" V10 plasma since June 09 and yet to find fault with it.
I must admit that the letter box bars top and bottom via blu-ray did not look as black as I expected but I could not fault the actual picture.
I must admit that the letter box bars top and bottom via blu-ray did not look as black as I expected but I could not fault the actual picture.
As you'll know from our reviews, we were rather disappointed by the black levels of the 2009 Panasonic plasmas - not bad, but you could buy better blacks.
I find it interesting that at CES recently, Panasonic were showcasing the new, 2010 sets by comparing them side-by-side with the 2009 models specifically to highlight the improved blacks/contrast on the newer models....
I find it interesting that at CES recently, Panasonic were showcasing the new, 2010 sets by comparing them side-by-side with the 2009 models specifically to highlight the improved blacks/contrast on the newer models....
Harmunt:
After a truly disastrous experience with three Philips 9664 LCDs I finally decided that plasma was the way to go. I have a 42" V10 arriving on Friday and I'm now reading horror stories all over the web regarding rising black levels after 150-200 hours of use. rubbish grey blacks is one of the reasons for my defection from LCD and it sounds like these Panasonics give you the greys of LCD at the price of a Plasma...
my g10 is fine , very nice blacks , and excellent shadow detail , perhaps your a little cautious after your philips experience ?? i doubt you will be dissapointed come friday ...
After a truly disastrous experience with three Philips 9664 LCDs I finally decided that plasma was the way to go. I have a 42" V10 arriving on Friday and I'm now reading horror stories all over the web regarding rising black levels after 150-200 hours of use. rubbish grey blacks is one of the reasons for my defection from LCD and it sounds like these Panasonics give you the greys of LCD at the price of a Plasma...
my g10 is fine , very nice blacks , and excellent shadow detail , perhaps your a little cautious after your philips experience ?? i doubt you will be dissapointed come friday ...
No problems with my 58V10 which I have now been running since late October. To be quite honest the picture and contrast is so good I have not noticed any issues with black levels. However, will now look at reseting some of the settings after run in to see if I can get a better picture. In my original post last November about "First Impressions of 58V10" I did point out that initially I was disappointed by the lack of sharpeness and focus especially in SD but as the Plasma ran in this improved markedly and I now have no complaints about SD. For me the V10 produces stunning pictures on HD channels and Blu Ray.
Brook
Panasonic 58V10. BD 80, Yamaha YSP 1000, Rel Quake , Sky HD.
Brook
Panasonic 58V10. BD 80, Yamaha YSP 1000, Rel Quake , Sky HD.
it seems harmunt is right , i done a bit of googling , and it seems there may be a potential problem regarding panny plasmas , i stress may , as at the moment , its not an officially recognised problem , panasonic are looking into it ..
anyway , the jist of it is , All panny plasmas have a voltage control system that adjusts pixel voltage at
predefined hours of use to ensure pixels do not misfire. However,
Pannys software seems to be going overboard in this area. The end
result is an elevated idle black that worsens as more hours are clocked
on the display..
this story is shown on a well known u.s. website , where there is also a link to the forum that the original thread started on...
i hope this is not affecting too many pannys (as i have one) , but there certainly seems to be a few that are losing their black levels over time , with some apparently having worse blacks than cheap lcds
....
anyway , the jist of it is , All panny plasmas have a voltage control system that adjusts pixel voltage at
predefined hours of use to ensure pixels do not misfire. However,
Pannys software seems to be going overboard in this area. The end
result is an elevated idle black that worsens as more hours are clocked
on the display..
this story is shown on a well known u.s. website , where there is also a link to the forum that the original thread started on...
i hope this is not affecting too many pannys (as i have one) , but there certainly seems to be a few that are losing their black levels over time , with some apparently having worse blacks than cheap lcds
Well isn't that just great! I hope this is very rare - I don't want to go through the hassle of having Panasonic replace the set. Would this even by covered by Panasonic's 5 year guarantee (or 1 year warranty)? Surely, it would be, but only if they recognise it as a problem, and if they don't then there will be no recourse.
I haven't had a problem with my v10 since I've had it (June 09), but it's still a concern if the set may be affected by this in the future.
I don't know if there's much in this story, but if there is, would it be cheeky to ask what hifi to ask Panasonic about it when you get a chance, (if in fact there's truth in the reports), just to put those of us who own a set at ease, to see what Panasonic's position is, if it's a potential problem and what they would do if it does in fact affect some sets?
I'm sure many of us on this forum would appreciate it.
I haven't had a problem with my v10 since I've had it (June 09), but it's still a concern if the set may be affected by this in the future.
I don't know if there's much in this story, but if there is, would it be cheeky to ask what hifi to ask Panasonic about it when you get a chance, (if in fact there's truth in the reports), just to put those of us who own a set at ease, to see what Panasonic's position is, if it's a potential problem and what they would do if it does in fact affect some sets?
I'm sure many of us on this forum would appreciate it.
Like hmtb I have not had any problems with black levels on my 58V10 so far - or should I say I have not noticed them. Having seen the US Forums on this it all seems a bit subjective and unless you have the luxury of having an expert come in the tune in your TV who has the tools to spot the changes how is the normal mortal non expert like me going to notice any difference.
What should one be looking for? Are there any Blurays or test cards one should look at or is it just up to your perception of your black levels.
Some help or advice on how to spot or what areas one should watch on this would be appreciated.
Brook
What should one be looking for? Are there any Blurays or test cards one should look at or is it just up to your perception of your black levels.
Some help or advice on how to spot or what areas one should watch on this would be appreciated.
Brook
my g10 is fine , im not too worried , these kind of things can snowball so fast on the internet , maybe its just a few sets , who knows , having said that , people who claim their sets are affected , say the lightening of black levels is easily noticeable in a dark room , i guess its like the sony clouding problems , if you dont see it , dont worry about it , thats my outlook anyway.....
mine too, but I'd like to know Panasonic won't leave their customers with dodgy sets, if these do in fact lose their contrast levels. My set says "infinite black" for contrast, not light grey!
fingers crossed , ive not read of many uk , irish sets with the problem , hopefully its just our transatlantic friends ....
update (if anyone is interested , this thread is kinda quiet) been following the thread on another forum (where this potential black level problem was first highlighted), and several people are now reporting that panasonic are releasing a firmware update that will fix the problem for anyone whos set is affected , im not even sure if it isnt just american sets that may have the problem anyway ...
so if like me you have a panny plasma , it seems there is no cause for concern
so if like me you have a panny plasma , it seems there is no cause for concern
Thanks for the update maxflinn. Even though my set's fine it's reassuring to know Panasonic are taking it seriously and looking/ finding a solution.
hmtb:Thanks for the update maxflinn. Even though my set's fine it's reassuring to know Panasonic are taking it seriously and looking/ finding a solution.
I've got a 46G10 too, and haven't noticed any problems. Unless you have another screen side-by-side, how can you really tell? In isolation, even a rubbish screen looks pretty decent when there's nothing alongside it with which you can directly compare.
All my friends suggested I was mad to have bought my first plasma 9 years ago with all kinds of horror stories about screen burn and unreliability, but it was pure speculation and they were all proved wrong. In the event it performed wonderously and faultlessly having been slogged to death for 9 years... and then I gave it away, still working, and replaced it with this G10 purely because I was bored with it.
IMHO, you'll end up junking your screen because technology has moved on long before it fails through normal use... and when it's covered by a 5 year manufacturers' warranty anyway, you're guaranteed to get at least 5 years out of it aren't you? I guarantee my G10 will have been ebay'd in a penny-auction or skipped within 5 years, and replaced with something which by then will be far superior, with blacks so deep you could probably jump into them. And even then, somebody somewhere will be starting a horror story about how the black level is only 99% perfect. So does anyone really care if the black levels on your '10 deviate a shade this way or that?
So just enjoy it for what it is, faults and all, and remember it was rendered obsolete and virtually worthless the day you took the wrapper off it! Rant over.
All my friends suggested I was mad to have bought my first plasma 9 years ago with all kinds of horror stories about screen burn and unreliability, but it was pure speculation and they were all proved wrong. In the event it performed wonderously and faultlessly having been slogged to death for 9 years... and then I gave it away, still working, and replaced it with this G10 purely because I was bored with it.
IMHO, you'll end up junking your screen because technology has moved on long before it fails through normal use... and when it's covered by a 5 year manufacturers' warranty anyway, you're guaranteed to get at least 5 years out of it aren't you? I guarantee my G10 will have been ebay'd in a penny-auction or skipped within 5 years, and replaced with something which by then will be far superior, with blacks so deep you could probably jump into them. And even then, somebody somewhere will be starting a horror story about how the black level is only 99% perfect. So does anyone really care if the black levels on your '10 deviate a shade this way or that?
So just enjoy it for what it is, faults and all, and remember it was rendered obsolete and virtually worthless the day you took the wrapper off it! Rant over.
Having only recently read about this issue, and being in the market for a 46-50" plasma myself, i found myself in Currys the other day and looking at the G20 and G10 tv's. The G20 looked good to me however there was also a 50G10 side-by-side with a Samsung 50B530 and i have to say that the difference in black levels was VERY noticeable. Now i know that the tv's may not be on similar settings but even so the blacks were grey/washed out looking on the G10 compared to the Samsung which had very nice blacks on it.
Both tv's are 2009 models, maybe the G10 has been out a bit longer (therefore possibly running more hours in the store) but even so it was enough for me to believe this black level 'issue' is quite likely a real one.
Think i am going to opt for one of the 2010 Samsung plasma's now.
Both tv's are 2009 models, maybe the G10 has been out a bit longer (therefore possibly running more hours in the store) but even so it was enough for me to believe this black level 'issue' is quite likely a real one.
Think i am going to opt for one of the 2010 Samsung plasma's now.
It is not possible to judge the black level in a shop. The lighting masks the reported problem.
The complaints are about the light emitted from the TV when it is showing a black screen, which in most cases, is only evident
in a fully darkened room.
The complaints are about the light emitted from the TV when it is showing a black screen, which in most cases, is only evident
in a fully darkened room.
Clare Newsome:
As you'll know from our reviews, we were rather disappointed by the black levels of the 2009 Panasonic plasmas - not bad, but you could buy better blacks.
I find it interesting that at CES recently, Panasonic were showcasing the new, 2010 sets by comparing them side-by-side with the 2009 models specifically to highlight the improved blacks/contrast on the newer models....
Clare i'm a bit confused by this. I've read a review of the 42G10 that saying black levels after calibration are on par with an 8G Kuro. The WHF review doesn't mention black levels but gives it a glowing review. Did you mean all the Panasonics or just the higher end ones? I'm hoping to get a G10 if i can get one cheapish
As you'll know from our reviews, we were rather disappointed by the black levels of the 2009 Panasonic plasmas - not bad, but you could buy better blacks.
I find it interesting that at CES recently, Panasonic were showcasing the new, 2010 sets by comparing them side-by-side with the 2009 models specifically to highlight the improved blacks/contrast on the newer models....
Clare i'm a bit confused by this. I've read a review of the 42G10 that saying black levels after calibration are on par with an 8G Kuro. The WHF review doesn't mention black levels but gives it a glowing review. Did you mean all the Panasonics or just the higher end ones? I'm hoping to get a G10 if i can get one cheapish
I appreciate what you are saying about the lighting conditions in a bright shop however how do you explain the noticeably blacker blacks on the Samsung 50B530 which was right next to the Panasonic G10? The sets were not in different areas of the store. The G10's blacks were well off what the Samsung was displaying.The G20 looked good though, but ofcourse it's a brand new 2010 model.
Given the G10 has been out about a year and let's say its been in the store for that time and running 12hrs a day, that's 4000+ hrs it's been running, if an average person has their tv on for 4hrs a day then the tv was potentially showing what it would look like after 3yrs of regular use.
The Samsung 50B530 has been out for a similar amount of time although there's no way of knowing whether this store has had that model on display for the same amount of time as the G10 (although i should have asked a member of staff i guess).
Was all set on the G20 but thinking now the Samsung PS50C550 or PS50C6500 or perhaps pick up one of the last few 50B650's which scored very highly in WHF last year.
Given the G10 has been out about a year and let's say its been in the store for that time and running 12hrs a day, that's 4000+ hrs it's been running, if an average person has their tv on for 4hrs a day then the tv was potentially showing what it would look like after 3yrs of regular use.
The Samsung 50B530 has been out for a similar amount of time although there's no way of knowing whether this store has had that model on display for the same amount of time as the G10 (although i should have asked a member of staff i guess).
Was all set on the G20 but thinking now the Samsung PS50C550 or PS50C6500 or perhaps pick up one of the last few 50B650's which scored very highly in WHF last year.
NayTyson:Clare Newsome:
As you'll know from our reviews, we were rather disappointed by the black levels of the 2009 Panasonic plasmas - not bad, but you could buy better blacks.
I find it interesting that at CES recently, Panasonic were showcasing the new, 2010 sets by comparing them side-by-side with the 2009 models specifically to highlight the improved blacks/contrast on the newer models....
Clare i'm a bit confused by this. I've read a review of the 42G10 that saying black levels after calibration are on par with an 8G Kuro. The WHF review doesn't mention black levels but gives it a glowing review. Did you mean all the Panasonics or just the higher end ones? I'm hoping to get a G10 if i can get one cheapish
I'm confused too (or should I say misled?) The blacks on my G10 simply aren't.
They're a glowing charcoal and jump out from the screen, destroying any night scenes as the dark backgrounds are actually displayed as distracting foregrounds! Surely LCD can't be much worse than this...
And that's BEFORE any "rising black level" issues?!
Er...How long do I have to wait before these cutting-edge flat-panel TVs even begin to approach my 10-year-old CRT?
As you'll know from our reviews, we were rather disappointed by the black levels of the 2009 Panasonic plasmas - not bad, but you could buy better blacks.
I find it interesting that at CES recently, Panasonic were showcasing the new, 2010 sets by comparing them side-by-side with the 2009 models specifically to highlight the improved blacks/contrast on the newer models....
Clare i'm a bit confused by this. I've read a review of the 42G10 that saying black levels after calibration are on par with an 8G Kuro. The WHF review doesn't mention black levels but gives it a glowing review. Did you mean all the Panasonics or just the higher end ones? I'm hoping to get a G10 if i can get one cheapish
I'm confused too (or should I say misled?) The blacks on my G10 simply aren't.
They're a glowing charcoal and jump out from the screen, destroying any night scenes as the dark backgrounds are actually displayed as distracting foregrounds! Surely LCD can't be much worse than this...
And that's BEFORE any "rising black level" issues?!
Er...How long do I have to wait before these cutting-edge flat-panel TVs even begin to approach my 10-year-old CRT?
In shops, the blackness is affected by the reflectiveness of the screen under the glass.
The Panasonics, when off, look dark grey. LCDs look darker.
The black level issue is about the light being generated by the screen when it is supposed to be black.
The Panasonics, when off, look dark grey. LCDs look darker.
The black level issue is about the light being generated by the screen when it is supposed to be black.
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