NAD C356BEE vs Yamaha A-S2000

[Chaloff]

This is a sad story

Now I have NAD controlling B&W CM1. I am not actually satisfied with the sound at all. It's sometimes even hurting to listen to music. There's too much (I think) in upper mids - voices and lead guitars sound too overwhelming. Very bright.

The more or less satisfying ballance is achieved when I switch bass and treble control. At low volume level I adjust bass and treble on maximum. At mid and high volume levels I add bass a little and leave treble on maximum. I am not speaking here about some substitution of loudness. Loudness can help only at low volumes. But I intentionally described different volume levels. How I understand I do it to somewhat "hide" the exaggerated upper mids and in a way to achieve flat response.

The reason of these upper mids can probably be in Nautilus tweeter (I have read a few opinions). Some like this type of sound, some not. And logically the advise for me would be to change the speakers as far as I don't like.

But! I really do not want to do this, as these were the best speakers I've ever heard after having listened about 20 pairs of similar price range. The reason is that they are coloured - have a bump in the upper bass (where all heavy music energy is), they are punchy and energetic. That's what I like.

At dealer's shop where I bought the CMs I was choosing amoung other 5 pairs (PMC db1i, ATC scm7, Neat Motive 3, MA gs10 and Dynaudio x12) with Yamaha a-s2000 amp. The sound of the CMs was incredible. I understood that I found my dream. I am not sure that I will give the right description. But I'll try. First of all they gave punch. But another highly involving feature was - sound was viscous like a mercury. At low volumes it was a bit far and it attracted me to the speaker. I wanted to make the volume higher. It was mild, but strong. When I made the volume quite high the sound was the same - viscous with no any compression. And I think smooth at any volume. The drums were like you hit the table with piece of raw meat.

Now at home I have a very far sound from what it had been in the shop. The sound I described at the beginning. Maybe some more. It's not like mercury, but like boiling water, not like raw meet, but like eggplant. And I don't want to make volume higher, but the opposite.

I believe that my problem is in suitability of NAD with the CMs. And the best way would be to change it to Yamaha. At least I've heard this set-up and it was amazing.

Another very important thing to note - my room is very small: 25m3. In the shop there was twice more volume.

So finally the question: shall I have at home the sound of Yamaha + CMs very close to the experience in the shop? Or very little air in my room would not allow the setup to open and it will be close to what I am having now?

Sorry for so many words and thank you for reading up to the end. But I really need help!

 

[altruistic.lemon]

If it is that bad then your speakers don't match your room, and an amp change isn't going to do much. You'd be better off playing with positioning, room acoustics etc. If that doesn't work, then there's only one way to go.

 

[poldo]

If it is horrible with the NAD it will be the same with the Yamaha.

Could you trie to descripe your room and speaker placement?

 

[GSB]

Andrew can you take some pictures of your room/placemant?

 

[Chaloff]

Altruistic.lemon, poldo,

You are killing me without a knife!!! :help:

I really wish you were wrong! With all respect to your opinion. If there's minimum two more replies equal to yours, I now how to research deeper. But that would be too hard.

Someone else, help me with the opposit idea!

 

[alchemist 1]

Altruistic.lemon, poldo,

You are killing me without a knife!!! :help:

I really wish you were wrong! With all respect to your opinion. If there's minimum two more replies equal to yours, I now how to research deeper. But that would be too hard.

Someone else, help me with the opposit idea!

I have had CM1'S with my Yamaha as2000 they work very well together.......8)

Bright is not a word I would use ti describe the Yamaha .

 

[Chaloff]

Altruistic.lemon, poldo,

You are killing me without a knife!!! :help:

I really wish you were wrong! With all respect to your opinion. If there's minimum two more replies equal to yours, I now how to research deeper. But that would be too hard.

Someone else, help me with the opposit idea!

I have had CM1'S with my Yamaha as2000 they work very well together.......8)

Bright is not a word I would use ti describe the Yamaha .

Alchemist 1, you give me a hope! What was your room volume (m3) when you've had this setup? And please clarify about "brightness". Thanks a lot!

 

[CnoEvil]

If I had to guess, on balance, I'd be with AL and Poldo.....though saying that, see if they will lend you the Yammy to try at home, in order to make certain.

 

[alchemist 1]

Altruistic.lemon, poldo,

You are killing me without a knife!!! :help:

I really wish you were wrong! With all respect to your opinion. If there's minimum two more replies equal to yours, I now how to research deeper. But that would be too hard.

Someone else, help me with the opposit idea!

I have had CM1'S with my Yamaha as2000 they work very well together.......8)

Bright is not a word I would use ti describe the Yamaha .

Alchemist 1, you give me a hope! What was your room volume (m3) when you've had this setup? And please clarify about "brightness". Thanks a lot!

3M X4m Room.

The Yamaha will give you a big smooth sound to complement the B&W's relaxed presentation.

The as2000 will drive the CM's with ease.

But do try to get a home trial to satisfy your own mind.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

The problem is that amps don't add or detract a heap from the sound, and the one you have, the NAD, I'd hardly describe as bright, more big and rich.

In the end, the room's going to have the biggest effect. I 'd always set my heart on some Dynaudio standmounts, heard the Excite 32s, thought they were stunning, listened to them for a week at home and took them back. They were horrible in my room, almost unlistenable. OK, I took a punt with the Maggies, and they've worked, but, if they hadn't, they'd have gone back too.

 

[ear]

keep them away from rear walls and if possible away from side wall too. CM1 's always go well will rotel amps (or Harman kardons also)

 

[Chaloff]

Dear all,

Thanks a lot for your comments.

There's one more thing to point out - this is the transport that I am using now. It is a cheep $150 IconBit media player which is actually not a good gadget for hifi. Maybe this can also greatly impact the soud quality in my room. But, !Please!, don't hurry to blame me. When this idea came to my mind I immediately tried to audition the same albums on my Cambridge Audio 340 CD player. There was improvement in the sound. There was more control at all the levels. But still far from that sound that I described it was in the shop (mercury like).

It's maybe also worth saying that my CA 340 CD player is not the level of $2000 Cyrus in the shop.

What do you say if I first swich my focus to the high level transport? I am thinking quite seriously of buying OPPO's 105.

Thanks to all!

Andrew

 

[Chaloff]

Dear all,

Thanks a lot for your comments.

There's one more thing to point out - this is the transport that I am using now. It is a cheep $150 IconBit media player which is actually not a good gadget for hifi. Maybe this can also greatly impact the soud quality in my room. But, !Please!, don't hurry to blame me. When this idea came to my mind I immediately tried to audition the same albums on my Cambridge Audio 340 CD player. There was improvement in the sound. There was more control at all the levels. But still far from that sound that I described it was in the shop (mercury like).

It's maybe also worth saying that my CA 340 CD player is not the level of $2000 Cyrus in the shop.

What do you say if I first swich my focus to the high level transport? I am thinking quite seriously of buying OPPO's 105.

Thanks to all!

Andrew

 

[Chaloff]

Dear all,

Thanks a lot for your comments.

There's one more thing to point out - this is the transport that I am using now. It is a cheep $150 IconBit media player which is actually not a good gadget for hifi. Maybe this can also greatly impact the soud quality in my room. But, !Please!, don't hurry to blame me. When this idea came to my mind I immediately tried to audition the same albums on my Cambridge Audio 340 CD player. There was improvement in the sound. There was more control at all the levels. But still far from that sound that I described it was in the shop (mercury like).

It's maybe also worth saying that my CA 340 CD player is not the level of $2000 Cyrus in the shop.

What do you say if I first swich my focus to the high level transport? I am thinking quite seriously of buying OPPO's 105.

Thanks to all!

Andrew

 

[Chaloff]

What an awful interface!!!

Does anybody know how to delete duplicate posts?

 

[Native_bon]

What an awful interface!!!

Does anybody know how to delete duplicate posts?

Go to edit.. remove the whole message.. Then replace with the word Deleted..

 

[BigH]

I did not find the CM1s bright but if anything too bassy esp if near a wall.

You say "There's too much (I think) in upper mids - voices and lead guitars sound too overwhelming. Very bright."

But then that you have the treble at max, try turning that down to see difference. I never use tone controls.

Play around with speaker positioning. Is your room very bare, no carpets, curtains etc.?

 

[CacáBr]

Hi! I have the Oppo BDP 95 and it's a stunning player. Very refined and great PRAT.

And, as I've been told, the differences between the 95 and 105 are purely in the VIDEO department. So, if you are after improvements only in sound, go for the 95 ... it's cheaper.

PS - if it helps: I owned B&W CM1 with Naim Nait 5i (first version) and it was never bright, but on the warm side. But it hated walls.

:cheers:

 

[Chaloff]

Double post

 

[Chaloff]

Double post

 

[Chaloff]

Double post

 

[Chaloff]

Triple post

 

[Chaloff]

What an awful interface!!!

Does anybody know how to delete duplicate posts?

Go to edit.. remove the whole message.. Then replace with the word Deleted..

Thanks a lot, NB!

 

[Chaloff]

Hi! I have the Oppo BDP 95 and it's a stunning player. Very refined and great PRAT.

And, as I've been told, the differences between the 95 and 105 are purely in the VIDEO department. So, if you are after improvements only in sound, go for the 95 ... it's cheaper.

PS - if it helps: I owned B&W CM1 with Naim Nait 5i (first version) and it was never bright, but on the warm side. But it hated walls.

:cheers:

Thanks a lot for the advise, CacaBr! Yes, I recently started to think of other OPPO models. There's no official sales of OPPO players here in Russia, so the price range for bdp-105 in Moscow is $2100 - $3600. Makes "a bit" sad. What you've said about equal sound quality of the two players is very important. I was going (and I will) issue a new thread to see what other people may say about SQ of 93, 95, 103 and 105.

By the way what did you mean by saying "it was never bright"? The amp, the speakers or the whole setup? And what transport did you use?

Thanks!

Andrew

 

[Chaloff]

I did not find the CM1s bright but if anything too bassy esp if near a wall.

You say "There's too much (I think) in upper mids - voices and lead guitars sound too overwhelming. Very bright."

But then that you have the treble at max, try turning that down to see difference. I never use tone controls.

Play around with speaker positioning. Is your room very bare, no carpets, curtains etc.?

Thanks indeed, BigH!

No, bassy sound is not a problem now. When I just bought the CMs they were bassy - mounted on glass AV-rack and the rack was standing tight in the corner. It was punchy and bassy! Then I bought dedicated B&W's fs-700 stands and changed the position as much as I could in this small room. Now the speakers stand 120 cm between them, right speaker 30 cm from side wall and 80 cm from back wall, left one is 30 cm from cupboard with glass doors and 60 cm from window (the whole set-up stands not paralleling the walls but a bit at an angle). The bedroom is just 11m2. There are one more cupboard and a closet. And a bed for half room No carpets. Bare parquet. No other positions are possible to play around.

By the way. There was overwhelming boom with my previous floorstanders Dali Zenzor 5. The room was too small for them. And by the way - by the way! They were not bright at all! Standing at the same place where the CMs are now. Their sound was mild and patrician. The mids were really perfect for me, sweet, lovely!!!! I just sold them because of the boom and they did not give the punch which the CMs perform.

Of course I did turn tone controls up and down millions of times. But the brightest mids come on direct mode. I do hear better sound with direct mode on some ABBA songs or D. Krall, but not that much. And the tone controlls switched on give more life. Which is substantially more important to me than little clarity improvement. And with AC/DC or Cinderella this "life" is crucial . I used to be a rock singer when a student and know how bass and snare drums must sound. Punching in breast :rockout: