My experience with BW 685: Looking for a new Stereo Amp.

[admin_exported]

Hello Forum I own a BW 685 Home cimena speaker set and although i am very pleased with my home cinema performance (Marantz sr 5003 av receiver Marantz PM 6003 for front speakers), i think there is room for improvement with the musical stereo performance. My current feeling about my musical stereo sessions is that is good with some recordings but the overall result is a bit dull without the needed punch and exitement. I think my marantz need a more easy driven speakers to give all the amp can give and the BWs need an amp with more drive. I have tryed Yamaha AS 500 amplification but for me the weaknesses are the same that de Marantz Amp and I prefer the overall performance of Marantz.

I’m planning to move my Marantz to my office-room and pair them with Dali Lektor ,sell my Yamaha amp and buy a new step up stereo Amp (my Budget is around 600 €) wich can drive them better . What amp do you think is the perfect match for BW 685 ? My list is now this:

- Nad C 356 BEE (600€)
- Primare I21 (699€)
- Arcam A18 (720€)
- ….
I listen a wide fan of musical genders (jazz, classical, pop,rock,flamenco…). .

Do you think i must consider other amp? Do you think i could plan an other option for my setup considering i have the home cinema speaker constraint?

Please give me your advise based in real experiences because is possible i could not demo some setups.

Thank you for your wise advive. Kind regards.

 

[Anonymous]

:wave: Hi!....Is my Spanglish so bad nobody can understand me? Any advise is wellcome ....

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hello Forum I own a BW 685 Home cimena speaker set and although i am very pleased with my home cinema performance (Marantz sr 5003 av receiver Marantz PM 6003 for front speakers), i think there is room for improvement with the musical stereo performance. My current feeling about my musical stereo sessions is that is good with some recordings but the overall result is a bit dull without the needed punch and exitement. I think my marantz need a more easy driven speakers to give all the amp can give and the BWs need an amp with more drive. I have tryed Yamaha AS 500 amplification but for me the weaknesses are the same that de Marantz Amp and I prefer the overall performance of Marantz.

I’m planning to move my Marantz to my office-room and pair them with Dali Lektor ,sell my Yamaha amp and buy a new step up stereo Amp (my Budget is around 600 €) wich can drive them better . What amp do you think is the perfect match for BW 685 ? My list is now this:

- Nad C 356 BEE (600€)
- Primare I21 (699€)
- Arcam A18 (720€)
- ….
I listen a wide fan of musical genders (jazz, classical, pop,rock,flamenco…). .

Do you think i must consider other amp? Do you think i could plan an other option for my setup considering i have the home cinema speaker constraint?

Please give me your advise based in real experiences because is possible i could not demo some setups.

Thank you for your wise advive. Kind regards.

Hi spfrank

From your list i'll recommend the C356BEE and the I21. Alternatively replace the PM6003 with Audiolab's 8200P power amplifier.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[Anonymous]

Thank you for your advise Musickraft , the 356 is my main option. About this comment in the NAD 356 BEE’s Whathifi review: “And it's not that this is an especially wearing trait, it's more that the scrap for primacy can result in a rather congested soundstage, sacrificing a little depth”

Do you think this will affect the midrange? My main issue with my current set up is midrange expressivity and punch, is the 356’s midrange expresive enough to give a good performance matching the BWs ?

Any advice is wellcome

Kind Regards

 

[cassper]

I was running my 685's for 18months on Cambridge Audio 650A/C combination and I had all the time feeling that it wasn't right A couple a weeks ago I sold the CA stuff, bought second hand NAD C355BEE and Arcam CD72T and boy, what a difference! I found joy in music again If the C356 has the same sonic signature as C355 (and everyone says it does have), then you will be happy. At least I am.

 

[tino]

Hi ... where can you buy a Primare I21 for 699 Euros? The list price in UK is over 1000 pounds!

 

[Anonymous]

Yes is a especial offer in a Spanish Web Supersonido:

http://www.supersonido.es/cas/site/productos-subcategorias.asp?id=13&idMarca=96#filtrar

Kind regards

 

[matthewpiano]

Forget the Arcam A18. It's a perfectly nice sounding amp but it won't give you any more grip over the B&Ws than the Marantz does, and possibly not quite as much. Having owned both the Arcam and the Marantz I'd say the A18 wouldn't be much of an upgrade.

The NAD would suit much better. You don't want anything too bright for the 685s so the slight warmth of NAD will work very well. I've heard a C325BEE drive 685s superbly but the C356BEE will give you extra power and (most importantly) current in reserve and more control and detail than the smaller NAD.

The 685s are still great speakers and once you get the right amp you'll enjoy them much more. For what it's worth I've heard them on the end of Marantz amps (PM6002 and PM6003) on several occasions and I've never thought it a good combination. Your PM6003 will sound superb through the Dali Lektors.

 

[matthewpiano]

Forget the Arcam A18. It's a perfectly nice sounding amp but it won't give you any more grip over the B&Ws than the Marantz does, and possibly not quite as much. Having owned both the Arcam and the Marantz I'd say the A18 wouldn't be much of an upgrade.

The NAD would suit much better. You don't want anything too bright for the 685s so the slight warmth of NAD will work very well. I've heard a C325BEE drive 685s superbly but the C356BEE will give you extra power and (most importantly) current in reserve and more control and detail than the smaller NAD.

The 685s are still great speakers and once you get the right amp you'll enjoy them much more. For what it's worth I've heard them on the end of Marantz amps (PM6002 and PM6003) on several occasions and I've never thought it a good combination. Your PM6003 will sound superb through the Dali Lektors.

 

[Anonymous]

Hello cassper, the feeling you had is the same i'm been having and i think is clearly a matching affair, both Marantz and BW are good products but they need the right partner. I have been reading a lot of diferent posts and NAD 35* seems to be the best partner for BW 685's. I hope soon to found joy in music again like you.... How is the midrange in your set up ? Thanks for your advise...

Kind Regards

 

[Clare Newsome]

Providing you've got them seated on (very) solid stands, and you drive them well, the B&W 685s are capable of excellent performance.

Personally I think you'll only get a major raise in performance if you start looking at amps at the next price-level up - anything else will just (at best) be an incremental improvement.

For example, a friend has just paired his B&W 685s with a Roksan Kandy K2 amp - his system is singing now! Buying an amp at this level may be outside your budget if you buy new, but there are a lot of great second-hand deals around....

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks a lot Matthewpiano, the way you write in the forum shows you knowledge is clearly based on your wide experience. I think NAD will be my choice.

Do you think 356 is much better than 355 , does it worth the extra spend?.Do you feel the midrange expression is fine with

this setup ?

Thanks again. Kind Regards

 

[matthewpiano]

Thanks a lot Matthewpiano, the way you write in the forum shows you knowledge is clearly based on your wide experience. I think NAD will be my choice.

Do you think 356 is much better than 355 , does it worth the extra spend?.Do you feel the midrange expression is fine with

this setup ?

Thanks again. Kind Regards

It's a pleasure but I would strongly advise you to audition before the buy something and I would also advise you to take heed of Clare's advice. I feel the NAD will give you a good improvement over the Marantz (as it should do at twice the price), but if you can find something from the next bracket up on the used market you will do even better.

My posts are informed by my experience (largely because I've been a constant box-swapper and also have friends in the industry who play me a wide range of things), but Clare's experience is wider so I'd recommend giving her advice serious consideration.

Regarding the NAD, midrange expression is a strength of NAD amps in general and I've consistently found them to be more convincing in this part of the frequency range than Marantz, alhtough you always get a more balanced sound overall from the Japanese manufacturer.

 

[tino]

Yes is a especial offer in a Spanish Web Supersonido:

Le agradezco por el link ... even more amazing are the Quad ESL 2805s advertised ... £2000 cheaper than the UK!

 

[cassper]

Thanks a lot Matthewpiano, the way you write in the forum shows you knowledge is clearly based on your wide experience. I think NAD will be my choice.

Do you think 356 is much better than 355 , does it worth the extra spend?.Do you feel the midrange expression is fine with

this setup ?

Thanks again. Kind Regards

It's a pleasure but I would strongly advise you to audition before the buy something and I would also advise you to take heed of Clare's advice. I feel the NAD will give you a good improvement over the Marantz (as it should do at twice the price), but if you can find something from the next bracket up on the used market you will do even better.

My posts are informed by my experience (largely because I've been a constant box-swapper and also have friends in the industry who play me a wide range of things), but Clare's experience is wider so I'd recommend giving her advice serious consideration.

Regarding the NAD, midrange expression is a strength of NAD amps in general and I've consistently found them to be more convincing in this part of the frequency range than Marantz, alhtough you always get a more balanced sound overall from the Japanese manufacturer.

I agree about the midrange character but I cannot comment on comparison with Marantz, never had a chance to try one with 685's. But what really surprised me (in a good way) is how different is NAD from Cambridge Audio in the bass department. Not only it is much deeper and structured, it is also much more controlled. Maybe I will not find the right expression to describe it so I will try to go around - with NAD you get that sense of authority where on the bottom freqs the speakers do what the amp says, with CA the bass seemed not exactly accurate.

 

[ABM78]

I hooked up my 685's to my Leema Pulse today, while a big improvement on it being run by my AV amp I still did not feel satisfied with them throughout the frequency range, treble too bright (although only just, this was where I found the biggest improvement with the Leema), something missing in the middle and the lows, meh. straight back to the Dynaudio's. I almost got my hands on a NAD C370 but seller disappointingly backed out at last minute, would have loved to see how they went together in the end settled for new speakers instead. I did not have the 685's on stands though, but def avoid bright components. Anyway, best of luck finding an amp that makes them sing the way you want them to. It can be fun and frustrating trying to find the right combination for YOU, I have minimal access to test combinations and have had to buy blind, do your best to try before you buy, the Dynaudio's put an instant smile on my face from get go and I can listen to them for hours on end, so was lucky.

 

[matthewpiano]

Thanks a lot Matthewpiano, the way you write in the forum shows you knowledge is clearly based on your wide experience. I think NAD will be my choice.

Do you think 356 is much better than 355 , does it worth the extra spend?.Do you feel the midrange expression is fine with

this setup ?

Thanks again. Kind Regards

It's a pleasure but I would strongly advise you to audition before the buy something and I would also advise you to take heed of Clare's advice. I feel the NAD will give you a good improvement over the Marantz (as it should do at twice the price), but if you can find something from the next bracket up on the used market you will do even better.

My posts are informed by my experience (largely because I've been a constant box-swapper and also have friends in the industry who play me a wide range of things), but Clare's experience is wider so I'd recommend giving her advice serious consideration.

Regarding the NAD, midrange expression is a strength of NAD amps in general and I've consistently found them to be more convincing in this part of the frequency range than Marantz, alhtough you always get a more balanced sound overall from the Japanese manufacturer.

I agree about the midrange character but I cannot comment on comparison with Marantz, never had a chance to try one with 685's. But what really surprised me (in a good way) is how different is NAD from Cambridge Audio in the bass department. Not only it is much deeper and structured, it is also much more controlled. Maybe I will not find the right expression to describe it so I will try to go around - with NAD you get that sense of authority where on the bottom freqs the speakers do what the amp says, with CA the bass seemed not exactly accurate.

It's all about system synergy. The NAD sounds excellent with B&W 685s but put a pair of Mordaunt-Shorts on the end of it (Mezzo 2s or Aviano 2s) and that bass sounds muddy. The Cambridge Audio positively sings through the MS speakers but (from what your experience suggests) doesn't work that well with the B&Ws.

Both superb amplifiers that work at their best with different speakers.

 

[rendu]

I used to have B&W 685 and had exactly the same feeling of dull sound. I changed from my old Onkyo 702 to an Arcam AVR280. The result was that I did not like it either with the Arcam, indeed I think that they even sounded more dull. My recommendation would be that if you do not like the B&W 685 sound, just get rid of them. If you like to give it a try maybe try them with a friend amp before you buy. I personally moved to Dali Ikon 1s and I am much more happy now.

 

[Anonymous]

Fully agree with MP for going for the NAD amps

Having owned the B&W 685's and used them with a NAD C320BEE, C355BEE and a C165 pre/C275BEE power set-up; NAD and B&W have one of the best synergies I've heard in hifi...

The C355BEE amp 2nd hand would be a superb purchase but so would the NAD C356BEE brand new; both amps will drive the 685's with plenty of boot to spare but they have a solid, fast paced and non-muddy bas with detailed and well-timed midrange and a great top end with no harshnes whatsoever...

I do also agree though that the Roksan Kandy K2 would be a good amp to demo as would the Rotal RA1520; both are superb amps and gel very well indeed with the B&W 685's but personally I'd go for the NAD amps every day...

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Thank you for your advise Musickraft , the 356 is my main option. About this comment in the NAD 356 BEE’s Whathifi review: “And it's not that this is an especially wearing trait, it's more that the scrap for primacy can result in a rather congested soundstage, sacrificing a little depth”

Do you think this will affect the midrange? My main issue with my current set up is midrange expressivity and punch, is the 356’s midrange expresive enough to give a good performance matching the BWs ?

Any advice is wellcome

Kind Regards

Hi spfrank

Your welcome

I think some of the other members have nicely summed up a pairing of NAD amplification with B&W speakers Btw, what is your maximum budget please?

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[Anonymous]

Hello Clare, considering yours and MatthewPianno's posts I think, I'll keep in mind the next step amps you suggested together NAD 356. In my decision process, your expert opinion is as important as a demo. The demo will inform me if the setup gives the inmediate feeling i'm looking for, but your expert opinion shows features i only can realease with a long and regular listening. Unfortunately not all the brands reviewed by Whathifi are able to be heard in my city Sevilla .

Can you tell me others step up amps i can consider?

Thankyou very much for your wise advice Clare.

Kind Regards from Sevilla-España

 

[Anonymous]

Hi rendu, I like the 685's sound , they create a very good atmosphere, they place the voice very well and i am only trying to improve the weaknesses i described, in any case will try the Marantz-Dali setup in my office room .

Thanks for your advise Rendu, kind regards.

 

[Anonymous]

Thank you very much Hifilover, like I said to the Clare's post answer I´ll consider al the posibilities you have describe.

Kind regards

 

[Anonymous]

Hello Musickraft , all the comments related to this post have been very useful. My budget is less than 800 euros. If i wait and save perhaps i can reach 1000 euros.

Thanks a lot. Kind regards.

 

[Anonymous]

You are wellcome Tino , enjoy the prices !