More power?

[davedotco]

Yes some good points but how do you tell the difference between amps, none of these things seem to get mentioned in reviews?

Getting complicated or technical in reviews is a big reader turnoff, most readers simply want to know if Product A is better othan Product B, thats it.

You can find some measurements that will guide you in your quest (google is your friend) but it also comes down to listening and it helps a lot if you know what you are listening to and for.

Most amplifiers (power amplifiers really) sound the same, providing that they are well designed and operating within their capabilities. This is a contentious statement but has been proved many times in tests, the important words here are 'well designed' and 'operating withing their capabilities'.

An amplifier with a small power supply that 'sags' and causes premature clipping is by definition not 'well designed', a good but modestly powered amplifier asked to drive complex low sensitivity speakers is not 'operating within its capabilities', these are simple examples.

It is surprising how often, in real world systems and applications, components can find themselves operating at the edge of their capabilities, often without the user having the slightest idea that this is happening. It is how the components behave in these circumstances that often determins whether a component sounds good or not.

Yes I would agree that "Getting complicated or technical in reviews is a big reader turnoff" but I find with so many 4 and 5 star reviews its a job to tell them apart, I aslo find the reviews rather shallow and they are often only tested with only 2 different sets of speakers, I would rather see more real world situations and blind tests. Some people say you can't tell the difference between amps, I have found in demos that to be largely the case. OK maybe you need really high end gear to tell the difference.

Not really, though plenty will tell you differently.

What you need to do if you really want to tell the difference between amplifiers is to put them under real stress, so that they are operating close to the edge of their capabilities. In the real world this happens more than you might think though this is really difficult to do under any kind of controlled conditions.

Because of this (and other reasons) I am a big fan of auditioning systems rather than individual components, in any case these days amplifiers are usually the least of your problems, poor quality speakers and dodgy digital front ends cause far more issues.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

One other point, the setting of the volume control on any amplifier is entirely arbitary, it is no indication of power usage or anything like that. Many manufacturers deliberately select a control with a range such that their amplifier 'gets loud' very quickly, say by about 10 - 11 o'clock.

Inexperienced users see this as an indication that said amplifier is pretty powerful, comments like 'look how loud it is and it is only 10 0'clock' is often heard. The fact that the amplifier is unlistenable at 12 and blowing up your speakers by 1 o'clock is rarely mentioned.

I agree with this......

 

[davedotco]

One other point, the setting of the volume control on any amplifier is entirely arbitary, it is no indication of power usage or anything like that. Many manufacturers deliberately select a control with a range such that their amplifier 'gets loud' very quickly, say by about 10 - 11 o'clock.

Inexperienced users see this as an indication that said amplifier is pretty powerful, comments like 'look how loud it is and it is only 10 0'clock' is often heard. The fact that the amplifier is unlistenable at 12 and blowing up your speakers by 1 o'clock is rarely mentioned.

I agree with this......

.......then I am completely wrong......

I do not come on fora like this to be agreed with......... :wall:

Must try harder.

 

[Broner]

I have the same speakers and the same DAC as Furtone but I don't use the Arcam A19. I drive my speakers with a NAD C356BEE amp and to be honest, I didn't really had a proper idea on what to look for when I selected the amp. I have listened to this system for about a week now and I haven't yet had any moment at which I thought the amp was struggling in any way. Should the NAD be more capable of driving these speakers than the Arcam A19 or am I perhaps just not listening closely enough?

 

[davedotco]

I have the same speakers and the same DAC as Furtone but I don't use the Arcam A19. I drive my speakers with a NAD C356BEE amp and to be honest, I didn't really had a proper idea on what to look for when I selected the amp. I have listened to this system for about a week now and I haven't yet had any moment at which I thought the amp was struggling in any way. Should the NAD be more capable of driving these speakers than the Arcam A19 or am I perhaps just not listening loudly enough?

Fixed it for you.... :cheers:

 

[busb]

What separates one 50W amp from another is often current delivery - some speakers are greedier for it than others.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

I think speakers have a 'level of loudness' a point were they don't actually get loudr, no matter the amp being used they just start to distort once its limits are reached adding a more powerful amp may give you better control within its operating window (travel of the drive units), but the soumd levels you desire will not be achieved with these speakers.

you need to look into better designed speakers for 'loud and similar amp - but you'll lose the 'refinement''. In hifi we can't have it all.

 

[Broner]

I have the same speakers and the same DAC as Furtone but I don't use the Arcam A19. I drive my speakers with a NAD C356BEE amp and to be honest, I didn't really had a proper idea on what to look for when I selected the amp. I have listened to this system for about a week now and I haven't yet had any moment at which I thought the amp was struggling in any way. Should the NAD be more capable of driving these speakers than the Arcam A19 or am I perhaps just not listening loudly enough?

Fixed it for you.... :cheers:

Haha. Considering, well you know, being just your average bloke, who basically listens to music and now and then and regularly likes to pump up the volume, I sort concluded in advance that this really need not be the decisive issue (assuming nobody's hearing is ruïned during the younger years).

Perhaps you're right, but I'm open for other explanations :cheers:

 

[the record spot]

I have a suspicion the A19's 2x50W output isn't quite enough for my Tannoys.

Why don't you borrow something like an Onkyo TX-8050 stereo receiver/amplifier to hear for yourself what difference 100 watts per channel can make to the sound?

If you like to listen to music at anything above moderate volume levels then the extra power will be nessessary to sustain the full dynamic range at higher volume levels.

Steve, the Onkyo is at best a 75wpc/8ohms amp

100wpc, and Hi Fi World measured it at over that when they tested it in September 2012.

 

[Dougal1331]

I have the same speakers and the same DAC as Furtone but I don't use the Arcam A19. I drive my speakers with a NAD C356BEE amp and to be honest, I didn't really had a proper idea on what to look for when I selected the amp. I have listened to this system for about a week now and I haven't yet had any moment at which I thought the amp was struggling in any way. Should the NAD be more capable of driving these speakers than the Arcam A19 or am I perhaps just not listening closely enough?

NAD amps usually have enormous power supplies. My old C350 had a 225VA toroidal transformer (that's good, that is...) and used to drive my old Celestion Ditton 66 (a truly hideous load, 2-4ohms) to nightclub levels and it absolutely nailed the job, never sounding strained. And that was rated at 50Wpc too.

Would've bought a C370 (couldn't afford it at the time), which can basically drive a tank let alone a loudspeaker.