More nice retro, if you like that sort of thing....

[Al ears]

Sevenoaks, new stock not ex gem etc.

p-55453-psb-passif-50-speakers-with-stands.aspx

Thinking about it now Al ears?

Bargain!
would be looking at these myself for that price....

 

[plastic penguin]

i am very interested bin how the likes of Harbeth can keep going in current economic climate when you're cheapest speakers are £2450....and speakers is all you make.

If Harbeth croak they can only blame themselves. You can't make a profit unless you have a turnover. I know they export but the UK market may eventually dry up -- people aren't stupid. Profit is one thing, rip-off is quite different.

 

[Al ears]

If Harbeth croak they can only blame themselves. You can't make a profit unless you have a turnover. I know they export but the UK market may eventually dry up -- people aren't stupid. Profit is one thing, rip-off is quite different.

I agree, it's easy to live on a name bit many hifi manufacturers do just that with no reason at all when it comes to sound per pound.

 

[nopiano]

i am very interested bin how the likes of Harbeth can keep going in current economic climate when you're cheapest speakers are £2450....and speakers is all you make.

I recall that Alan Shaw reported on his HUG forum they’d had their best ever year for turnover. I believe a significant majority of their output goes overseas, especially Asia, where the demand for BBC heritage seems insatiable.

They also seem to be developing an active/DSP version of their most expensive 40.3 model.

 

[plastic penguin]

I recall that Alan Shaw reported on his HUG forum they’d had their best ever year for turnover. I believe a significant majority of their output goes overseas, especially Asia, where the demand for BBC heritage seems insatiable.

They also seem to be developing an active/DSP version of their most expensive 40.3 model.

Not sure if that says much, as much of the developed Asian countries aren't being hit by financial slump as bad as the UK and a few other Euro countries.

The more I read and hear of Shaw, the less I trust him.

 

[WayneKerr]

Not sure if that says much, as much of the developed Asian countries aren't being hit by financial slump as bad as the UK and a few other Euro countries.

The more I read and hear of Shaw, the less I trust him.

Yes, Harbeth prices are now out of reach for most of Joe public. But, methinks, the man doth protest too much. If you don't like the prices then vote with your wallet.

The way I look at it is it's a British company producing a successful British product and hopefully paying British taxes. We're too good at slagging success off in this country... fly the flag! Or continue purchasing off Amazon

 

[plastic penguin]

Yes, Harbeth prices are now out of reach for most of Joe public. But, methinks, the man doth protest too much. If you don't like the prices then vote with your wallet.

The way I look at it is it's a British company producing a successful British product and hopefully paying British taxes. We're too good at slagging success off in this country... fly the flag! Or continue purchasing off Amazon

I'm not slagging the brand off but there comes a point when opinions should be heard and heeded.

Obviously I did speak with the wallet by choosing Dalis over Harbeth - and still less than 2k & certain RS stores are now offering new ones for around £1600

 

[podknocker]

If Harbeth croak they can only blame themselves. You can't make a profit unless you have a turnover. I know they export but the UK market may eventually dry up -- people aren't stupid. Profit is one thing, rip-off is quite different.

I agree. Harbeth, Spendor and a few other British speaker brands are charging a fortune now. I've watched several videos with Andy Shaw doing demos of his speakers and I've looked at the factory tour videos. There's no doubting his enthusiasm and attention to detail. The injection moulded drivers and the work that goes into the crossovers, do seem to be making a difference. He seems to be a very clever engineer and does come across as being a perfectionist, wanting to get the best possible product he can. So long as he sells them at the current prices, he has no incentive to reduce the huge profit margin and give everyone access to his speakers. I would love a pair of Harbeth speakers, but like many speakers out there, I just can't afford them and I would perhaps resent paying it, even if I could. Speakers are a luxury product, unlike bread and milk and if you are thinking of buying speakers, there are many models out there, at a quarter of the Harbeth price and these would give you a very similar experience. These brands are digging their own grave with the high prices, because markets do change and the demand for certain products will not be the same in the next few years. If you make a very expensive and niche product, for a few wealthy people and then the demand dries up, you have to lower your prices and change your strategy. The thing is, you are then competing with many other cheaper products and you will find it difficult to stand out, as the expensive, luxury appeal has gone. I know the Harbeth factory is fairly small, but when you have honed the materials and design, you can scale this up and reduce prices, by making a much larger volume of speakers. I don't think Harbeth want to do this. I think they want to be considered as a small, luxury British speaker company and maintain that aspirational, out of reach status, amongst the HIFI community. It's a very elitist attitude and it can't last forever. I can see Harbeth speakers at £1500 on sale at Richer Sounds in the not too distant future.

 

[Gray]

I can see Harbeth speakers at £1500 on sale at Richer Sounds in the not too distant future.

Don't hold your breath on that Pod.

 

[nopiano]

I agree. Harbeth, Spendor and a few other British speaker brands are charging a fortune now. I've watched several videos with Andy Shaw doing demos of his speakers and I've looked at the factory tour videos. There's no doubting his enthusiasm and attention to detail. The injection moulded drivers and the work that goes into the crossovers, do seem to be making a difference. He seems to be a very clever engineer and does come across as being a perfectionist, wanting to get the best possible product he can. So long as he sells them at the current prices, he has no incentive to reduce the huge profit margin and give everyone access to his speakers. I would love a pair of Harbeth speakers, but like many speakers out there, I just can't afford them and I would perhaps resent paying it, even if I could. Speakers are a luxury product, unlike bread and milk and if you are thinking of buying speakers, there are many models out there, at a quarter of the Harbeth price and these would give you a very similar experience. These brands are digging their own grave with the high prices, because markets do change and the demand for certain products will not be the same in the next few years. If you make a very expensive and niche product, for a few wealthy people and then the demand dries up, you have to lower your prices and change your strategy. The thing is, you are then competing with many other cheaper products and you will find it difficult to stand out, as the expensive, luxury appeal has gone. I know the Harbeth factory is fairly small, but when you have honed the materials and design, you can scale this up and reduce prices, by making a much larger volume of speakers. I don't think Harbeth want to do this. I think they want to be considered as a small, luxury British speaker company and maintain that aspirational, out of reach status, amongst the HIFI community. It's a very elitist attitude and it can't last forever. I can see Harbeth speakers at £1500 on sale at Richer Sounds in the not too distant future.

From a business perspective, I think that high cost, hand-made, expertly engineered, etc., is exactly the right approach for Harbeth, not to mention the tiny Falcon, Rogers and others in that ‘space’.

There is no point in chasing volumes as they’re already at capacity, and they have no wish to compete with B&W, KEF, Monitor Audio, or Q Acoustics who have mastered the Chinese built bulk sales market with excellent performing, great value designs. It would also need £millions in investment, and Alan Shaw is looking towards retirement, so needs to keep things steady. He’s been in business decades, to be fair.

Costs, especially in the UK have increased enormously and they have to price accordingly. They‘d be doomed if they tried to absorb. The accounts are available at Companies House, as are Linn, Naim and many others.

 

[WayneKerr]

I'm not slagging the brand off but there comes a point when opinions should be heard and heeded.

Obviously I did speak with the wallet by choosing Dalis over Harbeth - and still less than 2k & certain RS stores are now offering new ones for around £1600

Apologies, PP, I may have been in a punchy mood last night and do agree with some of your comments

 

[WayneKerr]

I like retro speakers as I'm not fond of speakers which shout look at me! But apart from that it's all down to performance of the product with your eyes closed, ears open, and hard-earned at the ready with a budget in mind to match your desires... having said that I've always found it extremely difficult to stay within budget

I'm a "vocals first" person, the voice has to sound right, however, this seems to come at a premium price and the Brits appear to have this sector covered with aplomb with various copies of the "BBC monitor" design.

I was put on the trail of Harbeth over on the Wam forum, (we had to migrate somewhere because WHF shut this forum down). There's a guy over there who used to be a member here, Macspur, he's blind so I pay very close attention to his views and comments... he's a Harbeth owner and lover and rates them very highly indeed, as do many others over there, and I can now see and hear why.

All British produced speakers are guilty of exorbitant pricing. If it's made in Britain you'll be paying a premium, with possible exception of ATC, a brand which I would like to try at some stage.

As a side-note my Harbeth's cost me less than £1500 new and I didn't get them from RS... just need to be in the right place at the right time and pounce

 

[podknocker]

You need to be very lucky to get these at a reasonable price.

I've found new Harbeth speakers online, with scuffs and minor imperfections, but still too pricey for me.

 

[plastic penguin]

I agree. Harbeth, Spendor and a few other British speaker brands are charging a fortune now. I've watched several videos with Andy Shaw doing demos of his speakers and I've looked at the factory tour videos. There's no doubting his enthusiasm and attention to detail. The injection moulded drivers and the work that goes into the crossovers, do seem to be making a difference. He seems to be a very clever engineer and does come across as being a perfectionist, wanting to get the best possible product he can. So long as he sells them at the current prices, he has no incentive to reduce the huge profit margin and give everyone access to his speakers. I would love a pair of Harbeth speakers, but like many speakers out there, I just can't afford them and I would perhaps resent paying it, even if I could. Speakers are a luxury product, unlike bread and milk and if you are thinking of buying speakers, there are many models out there, at a quarter of the Harbeth price and these would give you a very similar experience. These brands are digging their own grave with the high prices, because markets do change and the demand for certain products will not be the same in the next few years. If you make a very expensive and niche product, for a few wealthy people and then the demand dries up, you have to lower your prices and change your strategy. The thing is, you are then competing with many other cheaper products and you will find it difficult to stand out, as the expensive, luxury appeal has gone. I know the Harbeth factory is fairly small, but when you have honed the materials and design, you can scale this up and reduce prices, by making a much larger volume of speakers. I don't think Harbeth want to do this. I think they want to be considered as a small, luxury British speaker company and maintain that aspirational, out of reach status, amongst the HIFI community. It's a very elitist attitude and it can't last forever. I can see Harbeth speakers at £1500 on sale at Richer Sounds in the not too distant future.

Richer Sounds don't sell Harbeth, I was referring to Dali Rubis.

Do try and demo a pair of Harbeths, they are very good.

 

[podknocker]

I know RS don't sell Harbeths. I mused that they might eventually, if Harbeth needed to sell them cheaper, in more outlets, as their premium niche disappeared. I really need a sarcasm emoji! I'll never have the funds for a pair of Harbeths. If I did, I think I'd always feel unsettled, not having secure, screw in stands.

 

[plastic penguin]

Can't see RS ever selling Harbeth -- that'll mean a discount. Not sure Alan Shaw knows what a discount is.

I'll be interested in a proposed active, as mentioned by @nopiano , as most actives are produced by brands that have a history of producing amplifiers.

 

[podknocker]

Can't see RS ever selling Harbeth -- that'll mean a discount. Not sure Alan Shaw knows what a discount is.

I'll be interested in a proposed active, as mentioned by @nopiano , as most actives are produced by brands that have a history of producing amplifiers.

Can you imagine the cost of a powered Harbeth speaker and a possible floorstander? Astronomical. I've mentioned this before, but I don't like the idea of amps and DACs, very close to huge loudspeaker magnets. Passive speakers for me, every time. My lotto win system would be a pair of Focal Sopra 2 at the end of a Hegel H590 and I wouldn't think about Harbeth. I don't really like that 'classic' look, when the same technology and sound can be supplied in a more modern and practical package. It would be very interesting to hear the integration of Alan Shaw's crossover and drivers, inside something like my very cheap, solid and inert QA 3030i speaker cabinets, for example. They wouldn't need to cost thousands.

 

[WayneKerr]

They also seem to be developing an active/DSP version of their most expensive 40.3 model.

Doubt you'll see much change out of £25K if and when it does get released

Anyone seen the prices of PMC speakers lately

 

[podknocker]

View: https://youtu.be/tzWC5H5f-gc


These things are huge! Not for me thanks, even in passive form. The plinths alone, would be a 2 man lift. I don't think these are useful outside a recording studio. Most domestic spaces are just not going to work with these.

 

[podknocker]

Golden Gear: Yamaha NS-1000 Monitors

Almost half a century after its initial release, Yamaha’s classic three‑way monitor remains an impressive speaker, and it pioneered the use of diaphragm materials that are still considered cutting‑edge today.

www.soundonsound.com

These used Beryllium and were released about 50 years ago. I remember reading great reviews, when I was getting into this stuff. These are retro, but look really modern.

 

[plastic penguin]

Can you imagine the cost of a powered Harbeth speaker and a possible floorstander? Astronomical. I've mentioned this before, but I don't like the idea of amps and DACs, very close to huge loudspeaker magnets. Passive speakers for me, every time. My lotto win system would be a pair of Focal Sopra 2 at the end of a Hegel H590 and I wouldn't think about Harbeth. I don't really like that 'classic' look, when the same technology and sound can be supplied in a more modern and practical package. It would be very interesting to hear the integration of Alan Shaw's crossover and drivers, inside something like my very cheap, solid and inert QA 3030i speaker cabinets, for example. They wouldn't need to cost thousands.

Dread to think the possible prices. They'll always be those who will find the finances, but doubt there'll be many.

I love the Harbeth presentation of the P3s, dislike their pricing policy. We are so spoilt for choice nowadays, other brands do it just as well at more affordable prices.

 

[camcroft]

Fitted with Merlot crossovers.

 

[nopiano]

Fitted with Merlot crossovers.
View attachment 4434

 

[podknocker]

Or Cabinet Sauvignon?

 

[Al ears]

Fitted with Merlot crossovers.
View attachment 4434

Shurley Shiraz.... ?