More demo feedback...

[d_a_n1979]

Demo'd the Arcam FMJ A18 integrated amp and CD17 CDP this morning alongside the Naim Nait 5i integrated amp and CD5i CDP. Both were using Naim speaker cables and interconnects; speakers were Kef IQ70's, B&W 683's and B&W CM7's.

Didnt like any of it

I think the main issues were the amps and CDP's; not the speakers.

The A18 and CD17 had good timing and a detailed midrange but the top end sounded muffled and the bass just lacked depth all together; even using Massive Attack and Danny Tenaglia CD's!

The Naim gear had very detailed midrange, very impressed by that but the top end was too brash and the bass again lacked but was a bit more punchier than then Arcam.

So... Back to square one!

Next Thursday I'm demoing the NAD C355BEE amp and 545BEE CDP along with:

B&W 685's, 684's and 683's
Monitor Audio RX2's, GS10's and the GS20's

Possibly the Dali Ikon 6's as well (but I just cant get over their uglyness)!

I know it seems backwards that I'm demoing the gear I've already had; I actually think the issue has been with the Rega Apollo CDP not really suiting my musical tasts; not the electronics its partnered with!

I'm looking forward to demoing the M/A GS10's and GS20's; they appear to be very good but it'll be interesting to see if the GS20's are really that much better than the RX6's!

I'm still unsure as to whether I should demo the Rega Brio & Mira amps with the Rega Apollo CDP and Rega RS5 and Neat Motive 2 speakers. I honestly think that they'll be detailed but will lack the bass presence I like; more so when listening to the likes of Massive Attack et al!

 

[Anonymous]

if bass is the big issue, perhaps the problem lies with all the speakers that you are auditioning and not the amps/cdp's?

 

[d_a_n1979]

Nope; as I said above it's not the speakers.

My parent-in-laws have the CM7's and they give out plenty of clout as do the B&W 683's which I've heard a number of times before.

In this case it was the Arcam and Nait gear that I felt lacked completely.

 

[Craig M.]

what are the in-laws driving theirs with? maybe the b+w's need a bit more oomph from the amp?

 

[d_a_n1979]

They've for the Cyrus 6vs2 with a PSX-R and 6SE CDP

The CM7's are great speakers but just not with the gear I've demo'd today. Unfortunately I can't find a shop that has both the NAD and CM7 speakers in near to me

 

[plastic penguin]

How long did you spend in the demo room? Sometimes it can take a while to adjust to the different responses, it could also mean the Alpha 10 you had has spoilt you....

 

[d_a_n1979]

I was i there for close to 1.5hours; changing sources, amps and speakers etc as well as doing a bit of chatting...

I think the Alpha 10 did spoil me; I habent heard a decent Arcam amp now since the A32 and the AVR600! No idea where Arcam have lost it

I know the NAD fits the bill; it's just getting the right speakers now I think...

 

[mickeycomms]

Hi, I think dim span makes a good point - I have a previous generation Arcam set up which I used to run with Epos m22 speakers and found to be a bit lightweight in the bass dept. Changing the speakers to Tannoy Glenair 10s completely transformed my system and sorted out the bass in a way which more than exceeded my expectations. . . .

Regards,

 

[chebby]

plastic penguin:How long did you spend in the demo room? Sometimes it can take a while to adjust to the different responses, it could also mean the Alpha 10 you had has spoilt you....

To be fair, it took me almost 30 years to like Naim. (Dealer demos, shows, friend's systems etc.)

It was only when I got the thing in my own room that I 'got it'. (And that only applies to my particuler Naim system and the Naimuniti. I might still dislike a whole load of other Naim stuff.)

So I can certainly appreciate why one dealer demo (especially when expecting a specific type of sound from a particular speaker) is almost doomed.

I can appreciate what was said about the CD17/A18 too. I heard that last year (before buying Naim) and it was hopeless. Warm and soft and gutless with no midrange presence. (Or anything much else TBH!) I honestly wonder why Arcam bothered. My old Solo-Mini was better (with suitably efficient speakers) at just over half the price.

 

[d_a_n1979]

mickeycomms:
Hi, I think dim span makes a good point - I have a previous generation Arcam set up which I used to run with Epos m22 speakers and found to be a bit lightweight in the bass dept. Changing the speakers to Tannoy Glenair 10s completely transformed my system and sorted out the bass in a way which more than exceeded my expectations. . . .

Regards,

Yes but how many times do I need to point out that the speakers WEREN'T the issue this time!

Having demo'd and heard the B&W 683's and CM7's before a few times I know that they have the bass clarity and punch I want! The Naim & Arcam gear were the issue here as stated in my 1st post...

 

[Anonymous]

d_a_n1979:mickeycomms:

Hi, I think dim span makes a good point - I have a previous generation Arcam set up which I used to run with Epos m22 speakers and found to be a bit lightweight in the bass dept. Changing the speakers to Tannoy Glenair 10s completely transformed my system and sorted out the bass in a way which more than exceeded my expectations. . . .

Regards,

Yes but how many times do I need to point out that the speakers WEREN'T the issue this time! Having demo'd and heard the B&W 683's and CM7's before a few times I know that they have the bass clarity and punch I want! The Naim & Arcam gear were the issue here as stated in my 1st post...

here is an old thread on WHF with some recomendations/comments

 

[chebby]

d_a_n1979:Yes but how many times do I need to point out that the speakers WEREN'T the issue this time!

Having demo'd and heard the B&W 683's and CM7's before a few times I know that they have the bass clarity and punch I want! The Naim & Arcam gear were the issue here as stated in my 1st post...

We get it. You didn't like Naim and Arcam and you are going to like the NAD (because you already know you like it having used it already.)

Oh yes, and you think the Rega Apollo is a problem. (Missed that bit.)

 

[crusaderlord]

why dont you just buy the Arcam FMJ A32 then if that was their last great amp - you can get it for a good price now 2nd hand and i enjoy mine immensely and rate it better than my own NAD 2nd system by a long long way

the extra power it has does make a difference to the Diva A70 i used to have

 

[Anonymous]

d_a_n1979:Yes but how many times do I need to point out that the speakers WEREN'T the issue this time!

Now then Ted...are you sure it's not the speakers there?

 

[d_a_n1979]

crusaderlord:why dont you just buy the Arcam FMJ A32 then if that was their last great amp - you can get it for a good price now 2nd hand and i enjoy mine immensely and rate it better than my own NAD 2nd system by a long long way

the extra power it has does make a difference to the Diva A70 i used to have

I'm trying to locate one but unfortunately I'm not coming up trumps

I would like one but to be honest I do want to buy everything new as it's rare that I get that opportunity!

I am always keeping my eye out for the Arcam though

 

[plastic penguin]

d_a_n1979:crusaderlord:why dont you just buy the Arcam FMJ A32 then if that was their last great amp - you can get it for a good price now 2nd hand and i enjoy mine immensely and rate it better than my own NAD 2nd system by a long long way the extra power it has does make a difference to the Diva A70 i used to have I'm trying to locate one but unfortunately I'm not coming up trumps

I would like one but to be honest I do want to buy everything new as it's rare that I get that opportunity! I am always keeping my eye out for the Arcam though

I think you've an impossible task - Arcam Alpha 9/P9, two pairs of RS6s, B&W 685s, Arcam Solo Mini, Alpha 10. Do you really expect a truly satisfying sound when you've had that collection? Arcam, in my view, pound for pound, offers the best all-round sonic performance below a thousand pounds.

If you're looking for A70, go for the A65+ - more gutsy than the rather disappointing A70.

As Chebby rightly said, you'll probably end up with a Nad....

Sorry, d_a_n, it's not a dig, just that you'll go more weeks of testing and still won't find the Holy Grail.

 

[matthewpiano]

PP makes a good point.

Dan, I think Arcam is for you what Cambridge Audio is for me - the closest you are going to get to your kind of sound for reasonable money.

 

[d_a_n1979]

Yes; fully agree with all quotes really.

I really do think now that the only Arcam I'd go for, if I could find one/them, is the Arcam FMJ A32 amp and the CD192 CDP!

I do think that currently, the NAD C355BEE amp and C545BEE CDP are offering me what I really want; I really do think that it's a better sound altogether for my tastes over the Rega Apollo but it's now just down to finding the speakers.

I still cant decide whether to go the whole hog and get amp, CDP, standmount speakers and sub or go for some decent, more top end floorstanders like the B&W 683's or the M/A GS20's.

It'll be interesting to see how the demo goes next Thursday

I'm looking forward to it...

 

[plastic penguin]

d_a_n1979:Yes; fully agree with all quotes really. I really do think now that the only Arcam I'd go for, if I could find one/them, is the Arcam FMJ A32 amp and the CD192 CDP! I do think that currently, the NAD C355BEE amp and C545BEE CDP are offering me what I really want; I really do think that it's a better sound altogether for my tastes over the Rega Apollo but it's now just down to finding the speakers. I still cant decide whether to go the whole hog and get amp, CDP, standmount speakers and sub or go for some decent, more top end floorstanders like the B&W 683's or the M/A GS20's. It'll be interesting to see how the demo goes next Thursday

I'm looking forward to it...

I also remember when you had your Alphas, you had a dem at (I think) your local Sevenoaks and had a dem of a A90 + P90 and you stated it wasn't as good as your Alphas. Do you honestly believe a budget Nad is better than A90/P90 combo?

Hint: Backtrack.

 

[d_a_n1979]

Oh god yes; in all seriousnedd the NAD C355BEE, to me, is better than the A90 and P90 together. As I said then and I stick by it; bags of power but no guts what so ever! Sounded very hollow and lifeless...

To me the NAD C355BEE is a brilliant amp, probably more so because of the music I listen to. It has the bass depth and clarity I like but also the detailed midrange and smooth but still crisp and detailed treble.

The NAD C165 and C275 pre/power combo looks very good indeed but there's no where near to me where I can demo that and it also pushes my budget way over the £2k mark I'm looking to stick to currently.

I think in another 3-4 weeks I'll be sorted. I'll do the demo this Thursday and then I'm in London all next week for some client & candidate meetings and then I'm away for a weeks P&Q and some fishing at the family static on Anglesey

I'll also be taking a wedge of What Hifi's with me...

 

[Anonymous]

Hi dan, id just like to say afty a fair amount of demoing myself i went for the mira/apollo combo with regas interconnects and mains lead with the b-w cm1s.ive had it installed for 4 days now and im over the moon with the set up.Iactually think as each hour goes by it actually sounds better and better.

Just thought it might be worth ago.

Best of luck

 

[d_a_n1979]

Thanks for the input

Unfortunately I cannot find anywhere that has Rega and B&W together

 

[bretty]

d_a_n1979:crusaderlord:why dont you just buy the Arcam FMJ A32 then if that was their last great amp - you can get it for a good price now 2nd hand and i enjoy mine immensely and rate it better than my own NAD 2nd system by a long long waythe extra power it has does make a difference to the Diva A70 i used to haveI'm trying to locate one but unfortunately I'm not coming up trumps

I would like one but to be honest I do want to buy everything new as it's rare that I get that opportunity!I am always keeping my eye out for the Arcam though

There's one for sale at steves hi fi, Arcam FMJ A32 - great condition and boxed:

here

 

[Anonymous]

Thats a shame,Audience in Bath,Avon, stock rega and b&w if thats within your proximity!!

 

[d_a_n1979]

Bit of a trek from Lancashire I'm afraid