More Bang for your Buck ???????

[robg1976]

Hi Guys Do you think as technology moves on and parts and manufacturing cost fall do we get better sounding kit for less

The reason i ask is I replaced my arcam CD73 Cd player this week it had given up after 7 years. My budget was low so i purchased a NAD C516 BEE

I am shocked how good the NAD sounds it cost half the price of the ARCAM (£500) the NAD i got from seven oakes Open box bargain £160 (retail £250)

Of course this is subjective and personal choice but the NAD is in some areas better and by no means a downgrade. The stereo image is awesome the detail is excellent and it is coherent and for the money a Really good performance all round.

What are your guys thoughts do we get more for our cash

Cheers ROB

My system Rote RA 05SE amp Monitor audio BR5 speakers and the NAD C516BEE cd player with russ andrews cables and blachrhodium

 

[chebby]

Shocking isn't it?

 

[gwynne61]

Had the same experience last November when my Arcam CD192 packed up again, was totally fed up of it. I decided to replace with a Marantz CD6005 and it's more enjoyable to my ears than the Arcam and was over £500 cheaper, plus I no longer worry about which CD will play and which will skip.

 

[robg1976]

Hi Gwynne61 my arcam was like that would play discs only when it wanted to... I did Consider the Marantz 6005 I got the NAD Because seven oakes had it up for sale open Box £160 brand new with warranty.....

This is not a thread to abuse ARCAM i just wonder are we getting better products for our money. maybe its the fact that producing them in CHINA is good for all of us. of course i prefer to buy british after all NAD is and was British then moved to CANADA.

Thanks for your comments Gwynne61

 

[chebby]

This is not a thread to abuse ARCAM i just wonder are we getting better products for our money. maybe its the fact that producing them in CHINA is good for all of us. of course i prefer to buy british after all NAD is and was British then moved to CANADA.

Their earliest products (like the NAD 3020) were made in Taiwan, so they have always been made in one 'China' or another.

Arcam now make almost everything in China (or New York State lately with some new products like the A49). Arcam are also Canadian owned (owned by JAM Industries).

 

[Vladimir]

Wow, that is a fairly big groupation. They also own KORG and SiriusXM.

 

[plastic penguin]

This is not a thread to abuse ARCAM...

Hope not...

 

[robg1976]

its not about arcam, I wanted thought on hi-fi kit being cheaper and getting better performance for you cash wanted members to view thought not comment needlessly

 

[Vladimir]

Hope not...

 

[matthewpiano]

NAD equipment has consistently punched above its weight because it is, first and foremost, designed and produced to get the most out of music rather than being all about the technology, or splitting everything down into 'hi-fi' characteristics. Out of all my kit changing and swapping over the years, one particular listening session really stands out. I was listening to Britten's own recording of his opera 'Billy Budd' and I was so drawn into the music that my emotions were literally all over the place, and I almost felt like I was there in the thick of it.

My system at the time was the NAD C521BEE CD player I'm using again now, a C325BEE amp (sadly long since sold), and Wharfedale Diamond 8.3+ speakers (which are tucked away in our spare room).

This was a budget set-up and yet it is probably the one single system that really stands out for giving me a memorable musical experience.

 

[peterpiper]

Wharfedale Diamond 8.3+ speakers (which are tucked away in our spare room).

what other pieces of hifi have you got tucked away in places, I would love to see in your loft, teehee

saying that,I have all these unused cluttering up the backroom, an old Marantz pm4001 amp , a Sony fm/am tuner , a Yamaha prologic processer (remember that format) never got into cinema sound, one can only take so many bangs and crashes lol , and a denon cassette deck

just never got round to sticking them up for sale

 

[Vladimir]

The general objectivists consensus over at AVS forums is that integrated 2 channel amps and pre-power separates and standalone DACs are all overpriced and for audiophools. AVRs are better SQ, cheaper, more powerfull and with much more features to die for. Aparently we are all idiots fooled by the audiophile industry and their trumpeteers, the mags.

By that logic best bang for the buck must be an AVR. Example the Denon AVR-X2000 that costs only £249.00 on Amazon.

Thoughts?

 

[matthewpiano]

I think a lot of hi-fi is over-priced and an awful lot of it under performs compared to what it promises. I also think a lot of it focuses on producing what the manufacturers think is a 'hi-fi' sound to tick boxes in magazine reviews, rather than on the way in which it communicates the essential musical message. This is one of the things that NAD has got right over the years. Their kit doesn't really make you sit aghast at (for example) the soundstaging or the dynamic capability or the detail in the bass. Instead it gets you wrapped up in the music. Its something the Arcam Alpha amps did rather well too, as well as one or two of Cambridge Audio's products - the 340c CD player, 340ASE amp, and 640A Version 2.0 amp. All budget kit and all with a certain basic honesty that seems to be absent from some more expensive kit.

 

[matthewpiano]

Wharfedale Diamond 8.3+ speakers (which are tucked away in our spare room).

what other pieces of hifi have you got tucked away in places, I would love to see in your loft, teehee

saying that,I have all these unused cluttering up the backroom, an old Marantz pm4001 amp , a Sony fm/am tuner , a Yamaha prologic processer (remember that format) never got into cinema sound, one can only take so many bangs and crashes lol , and a denon cassette deck

just never got round to sticking them up for sale

In addition to the Diamond 8.3+ there is a pair of Diamond 10.4s, some Mission 751s, Mordaunt-Short MS902i Avants, and KEF C30s (sealed box model from the 80s). CD players are the Marantz CD63SE, NAD C521BEE, Philips CD840, and Rotel RCD965BX. Amps (apart from the Exposure) are Sansui AU2200, AU2900, and AU4400.

I will need to thin it all out at some point...

 

[matt49]

I think a lot of hi-fi is over-priced and an awful lot of it under performs compared to what it promises. I also think a lot of it focuses on producing what the manufacturers think is a 'hi-fi' sound to tick boxes in magazine reviews, rather than on the way in which it communicates the essential musical message. This is one of the things that NAD has got right over the years. Their kit doesn't really make you sit aghast at (for example) the soundstaging or the dynamic capability or the detail in the bass. Instead it gets you wrapped up in the music. Its something the Arcam Alpha amps did rather well too, as well as one or two of Cambridge Audio's products - the 340c CD player, 340ASE amp, and 640A Version 2.0 amp. All budget kit and all with a certain basic honesty that seems to be absent from some more expensive kit.

I kind of agree with your view, Matthew, and as usual you express it eloquently. However ...

Some expensive high-end kit really is worth paying for. At the top of the list I'd put electrostatic and planar-magnetic speakers. These give a sense of presence and immediacy that's very hard to find with normal dynamic speakers.

Class A amps are also special IMO.

None of this stuff is cheap. You can get a pair of Magneplanars for £1K (you'd also need a sub though). A decent second-hand Class A Sugden can be had for £500.

But I agree that some expensive gear flatters to deceive.

Matt

 

[the record spot]

By that logic best bang for the buck must be an AVR. Example the Denon AVR-X2000 that costs only £249.00 on Amazon.

Thoughts?

Onkyo TX-NR818 I'd say. £600 in the Richer Sounds sale last summer. Mind-boggling bang for buck and leaves quite a few stereo amps in its wake.

 

[MrReaper182]

I think a lot of hi-fi is over-priced and an awful lot of it under performs compared to what it promises. I also think a lot of it focuses on producing what the manufacturers think is a 'hi-fi' sound to tick boxes in magazine reviews, rather than on the way in which it communicates the essential musical message. This is one of the things that NAD has got right over the years. Their kit doesn't really make you sit aghast at (for example) the soundstaging or the dynamic capability or the detail in the bass. Instead it gets you wrapped up in the music. Its something the Arcam Alpha amps did rather well too, as well as one or two of Cambridge Audio's products - the 340c CD player, 340ASE amp, and 640A Version 2.0 amp. All budget kit and all with a certain basic honesty that seems to be absent from some more expensive kit.

I kind of agree with your view, Matthew, and as usual you express it eloquently. However ...

Some expensive high-end kit really is worth paying for. At the top of the list I'd put electrostatic and planar-magnetic speakers. These give a sense of presence and immediacy that's very hard to find with normal dynamic speakers.

Class A amps are also special IMO.

None of this stuff is cheap. You can get a pair of Magneplanars for £1K (you'd also need a sub though). A decent second-hand Class A Sugden can be had for £500.

But I agree that some expensive gear flatters to deceive.

Matt

That's true of everything from cars to washing machines.

 

[Leeps]

I think a lot of hi-fi is over-priced and an awful lot of it under performs compared to what it promises. I also think a lot of it focuses on producing what the manufacturers think is a 'hi-fi' sound to tick boxes in magazine reviews, rather than on the way in which it communicates the essential musical message. This is one of the things that NAD has got right over the years. Their kit doesn't really make you sit aghast at (for example) the soundstaging or the dynamic capability or the detail in the bass. Instead it gets you wrapped up in the music. Its something the Arcam Alpha amps did rather well too, as well as one or two of Cambridge Audio's products - the 340c CD player, 340ASE amp, and 640A Version 2.0 amp. All budget kit and all with a certain basic honesty that seems to be absent from some more expensive kit.

We're all different I know, but the enjoyment I've derived from hifi over the years is both from the music itself (usually by the way it makes some emotional connection) AND the sounds produced.

I love Radiohead's album, Amnesiac for example. Some of it connects emotionally, but I chiefly love playing the album because of the vast array of textures it produces. I enjoy that immensely. The sounds rather than the songwriting appeal with most of the electronica I like (such as Alphawezen's album En Passant).

Ray LaMontagne's 'All the Wild Horses' just gives me goosebumps. And that's just very gifted songwriting rather than the 'sounds' made.

Christian Scott's 'Isadora' makes a truly beautiful sound, but is great music too.

So for me, a system that permits you to get wrapped up in the music and where appropriate communicates dazzling sounds too is what I look for. Although I'll likely upgrade my amp at some point, my system ticks my boxes very well indeed despite being a long way from the upper echelons of many forumites' system budgets.

 

[BenLaw]

In addition to the Diamond 8.3+ there is a pair of Diamond 10.4s, some Mission 751s, Mordaunt-Short MS902i Avants, and KEF C30s (sealed box model from the 80s). CD players are the Marantz CD63SE, NAD C521BEE, Philips CD840, and Rotel RCD965BX. Amps (apart from the Exposure) are Sansui AU2200, AU2900, and AU4400.

I will need to thin it all out at some point...

Erm, why are the speakers in your sig now Wharefdales?

 

[matthewpiano]

I explained further back in this thread. Still got the Dyns and still like them. Just like a change from time to time.

 

[BenLaw]

I explained further back in this thread. Still got the Dyns and still like them. Just like a change from time to time.

I've looked again twice and can't see that you did, but maybe I'm having a bad evening. Anyway, fair enough. I can't imagine much worse than rejigging my system for no obvious reason but I guess we're all different - what is it you like about the change from time to time?

 

[matthewpiano]

I explained further back in this thread. Still got the Dyns and still like them. Just like a change from time to time.

I've looked again twice and can't see that you did, but maybe I'm having a bad evening. Anyway, fair enough. I can't imagine much worse than rejigging my system for no obvious reason but I guess we're all different - what is it you like about the change from time to time?

Apologies Ben, it was in another thread.

I enjoy the musicality of the Wharfedales. I've owned them for years and sometimes I just enjoy re-visiting their natural way with the music from time to time.

 

[robg1976]

yes you can get some good AV amps for little cash and some will sound great, But basically you will have to pay more to get similar sound from an AV amp this is just simple a cost issue......... 5 channels cost more than 2 channel stereo and the other features add cost to the amp...

So you wil have to buy a £500 av amp to come close to a £250 stereo amp.. and the more features adds more circuits. this means more chance of geting it wrong Simple direct circuits always produce better sound..

The same is for DVD player compared to cd player they tend to cost more and you have to spend more on a dvd player to better a cd player....

 

[BrasSailor]

NAD equipment has consistently punched above its weight because it is, first and foremost, designed and produced to get the most out of music rather than being all about the technology, or splitting everything down into 'hi-fi' characteristics. Out of all my kit changing and swapping over the years, one particular listening session really stands out. I was listening to Britten's own recording of his opera 'Billy Budd' and I was so drawn into the music that my emotions were literally all over the place, and I almost felt like I was there in the thick of it.

My system at the time was the NAD C521BEE CD player I'm using again now, a C325BEE amp (sadly long since sold), and Wharfedale Diamond 8.3+ speakers (which are tucked away in our spare room).

This was a budget set-up and yet it is probably the one single system that really stands out for giving me a memorable musical experience.

Hi there, I found this thread searching for a good but very, very on budget amp for the Wharfedale Diamond 8.3 that I have just bought for £30. It's really interesting to see people in different ends of the spectrum and as the majority of you can appreciate, it can be somewhat overwhelming to try and find objective information in this day and age, specially when one isn't very familiar with the subject, so I guess I just would like to thank you all for sharing the information.

regards,