mini vs. higher end

[noob]

I'm curious...looking at this Yamaha mini system<br/>: https://europe.yamaha.com/en/products/audio_visual/hifi_systems/mcr-n870d/?mode=model Quote from one of the reviews for the amplification part:"The A-U670 is rated to deliver a maximum of 70W per channel at 1kHz into 6 ohm load at 10% THD, with a frequency response of 10 Hz – 40 kHz (+/-3dB). At 30W per channel, that distortion figure drops to 0.05% which is a far more acceptable value. It is for this reason that i prefer to think of the A-U670 as a 30W per channel amplifier, and it is that value I’d advise you take into account when choosing a matching pair of speakers." Ok, at 70w is garbage and used only to brag about maximum power, but at 30 W with 0,05% looks pretty legit? Let's compare it with something from few classes above:https://europe.yamaha.com/en/products/audio_visual/hifi_components/a-s1100_g/index.html I know they're different classes, prices and basically uncomparable, but humor me...in average living room (50sq m/500sq ft) at neighbour friendly volume levels, how many difference can be percived?Could your wife tell a difference in blind test ? Also, since most of the time only few watts are used (again, in average Joe's home, not stadium concert), would it be possible to drive, e.g. some SHL5 Harbeths with this small Yamaha ? If not, what would be the "biggest" loudspeaker this guy could handle? Cheers!

 

[noob]

Sorry about formatting. I've really tried everything to fix it, nothing works.

Editor is abysmal.

 

[insider9]

That distortion figure is quote in specs at 7.5W at 6 ohm and I'd be surprised if 30W mentioned in the review is correct.

The question about wife telling the difference in a blind test is only valid of she's the one who's going to listen to the system. You may perceive it differently. Also if you have a wife that's happy for you to blindfold her why would you wonder about amps and not other things you could be doing together with that blindfold

 

[muljao]

The more powerful amp will likely drive any speakers better. However if you pick the correct speakers there is no reason a 30watt amp can't rock out a room that size

 

[Vladimir]

Manufacturer recommended amplification for the Harbeth Super HL5plus is min. 25Wpc in 8ohms 20Hz-20kHz @<1% THD both channels driven. I think even that is beyond the MCR-N870D.

Will it work? Yes.

Should you do it? No.

How much amplifier power do I REALLY need?

 

[drummerman]

There are other total mismatch examples, either way, at shows which were well received; One of those was a MyAmp driving some Focal Utopias. The other way round QAcoustic used a High End Arcam to power some of their toddlers.

Only way to find out is to buy the Harbeths and the Yamaha. - It may work superbly or ...

Go on, do it .

 

[Vladimir]

There are other total mismatch examples, either way, at shows which were well received; One of those was a MyAmp driving some Focal Utopias. The other way round QAcoustic used a High End Arcam to power some of their toddlers.

Only way to find out is to buy the Harbeths and the Yamaha. - It may work superbly or ...

Go on, do it .

I doubt he would be doing any of it. This is one of those 'for argument sake'. *wink*

 

[lindsayt]

noob, you seem to be under the impression that the bigger the speaker the more power it requires.

As if the the speaker is a car body and the amplifier is the engine.

This is completely the opposite of how it works - in general.

In general, woofers are less efficient that tweeters and squawkers. So, for most speakers it's the bass drivers that determine how much power a speaker requires from the amplifier - for a given loudness.

In general, the larger the bass driver the more efficient it is. It's all down to the physics of moving air at low frequencies, whereby a large cone requires much less forward to backwards motion - which therefore makes large bass drivers more efficient in general.

In general, the larger the speaker the lower the power of the amplifier you can get away with. To the extent that some speakers the size of a broom cupboard are happy with 2 watt amplifiers.

It sounds counter-intuitive, but that's how it works.

There are some notable exceptions to this large speakers need low power general rule, eg Apogee Apogee's which are unusual panel speakers and Infinity IRS's which were interesting speakers that evolved through several versions.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

And you do not have to go as high up in the Yamaha range as the A-S 1000 you could look at the Yamaha A-S501 to A-S801 which has plenty of power for your speakers which with the A-S501 might be the same money as a compact one box hifi .

Or look at the marantz PM8005 which is a very good amplifier for about £500 - £600 new or secondhand one which is even cheaper or I see a secondhand marantz peal lite on eBay going secondhand for £500 and that's an outstanding amplifier for tha the money .

 

[tonky]

Pearl lite - 500£ on ebay - not seen it but it would have to be totally mint as it was available for 600£ approx when brand new (it does sound very good btw).

I'd go for the marantz 8005 if it's priced right for you.

cheers tonky

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Pearl lite - 500£ on ebay - not seen it but it would have to be totally mint as it was available for 600£ approx when brand new (it does sound very good btw).

I'd go for the marantz 8005 if it's priced right for you.

cheers tonky

I think I see it for £499 in silver I thought they were £1000 when first released .

 

[tonky]

Pearl lite - irrespective of its price when first released (about 800£ I thought) it eventually ended up being sold 500-600£ . It was superceded by the PM8005. It's cost initially was 1000£ - way overpriced (inmho compared to outgoing Pearl Lite).

PM8005 can be bought now for 529 - 600£ (New!) depending on where you shop. If I'd paid a 1000£ I'd be well miffed! - If buying second hand the buyer should take care and check the original price. If Marantz wants their products to sell well maybe they should be priced more competitively to start with.

tonky

 

[Al ears]

Pearl lite - irrespective of its price when first released (about 800£ I thought) it eventually ended up being sold 500-600£ . It was superceded by the PM8005. It's cost initially was 1000£ - way overpriced (inmho compared to outgoing Pearl Lite).

PM8005 can be bought now for 529 - 600£ (New!) depending on where you shop. If I'd paid a 1000£ I'd be well miffed! - If buying second hand the buyer should take care and check the original price. If Marantz wants their products to sell well maybe they should be priced more competitively to start with.

tonky

As far as I cam aware the Pearl Lite was not superceded by the 8005, it's a completely different line.

I don't think Marantz have any problems with their products selling well .... ;-)

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Pearl lite - irrespective of its price when first released (about 800£ I thought) it eventually ended up being sold 500-600£ . It was superceded by the PM8005. It's cost initially was 1000£ - way overpriced (inmho compared to outgoing Pearl Lite).

PM8005 can be bought now for 529 - 600£ (New!) depending on where you shop. If I'd paid a 1000£ I'd be well miffed! - If buying second hand the buyer should take care and check the original price. If Marantz wants their products to sell well maybe they should be priced more competitively to start with.

tonky

ok...

just had a look on the bay it's £450 ono anyway I thought marantz did 2 versions of the peril they did the peril then the peril lite the one on the bay has cooper insides and I was not sure if both versions had that feature? And the peril was the better amplifier .

the marantz PM8005 is a very good amplifier I used to own one but traded mine in so I could get my Yamaha but wanted to keep the marantz for a second setup .

 

[Vladimir]

From just looking at the amps, only dofference I see is the 8005 chasis isn't copperplated. Otherwise same Bando torroid, 18000uf Nichicon caps, Alps RK27 pot, same heatsink as the Pearl Lite. Any difference in topology is probably minor.

 

[Deleted member 108165]

As far as I cam aware the Pearl Lite was not superceded by the 8005, it's a completely different line.

I don't think Marantz have any problems with their products selling well .... ;-)

I bought my Pearl Lites around the time of the change-over to the 8005 and as far as I can recall the 8005 replaced the 8004, which was the US version of the Pearl Lite. In Europe we didn't get the 8004 - the PL was the Euro derivative of the 8004. As Vlad has stated the PL and 8005 are very similar under the hood.

 

[tonky]

ok...

just had a look on the bay it's £450 ono anyway I thought marantz did 2 versions of the peril they did the peril then the peril lite the one on the bay has cooper insides and I was not sure if both versions had that feature? And the peril was the better amplifier .

the marantz PM8005 is a very good amplifier I used to own one but traded mine in so I could get my Yamaha but wanted to keep the marantz for a second setup .

That's right BS - The Pearl was superior - but vastly more expensive - Having heard both Pearl and 8005 ( very similar sound ) I was most impressed. That Yamaha must be one hell of an amp to be so superior.

regards tonky

 

[Deleted member 108165]

That's right BS - The Pearl was superior - but vastly more expensive - Having heard both Pearl and 8005 ( very similar sound ) I was most impressed. That Yamaha must be one hell of an amp to be so superior.

The Pearls had a worldwide limited run of 500 amp/cdp pairs at £2500 each. Very attractive pairing.