Microphony/Vibration

[drummerman]

 

[drummerman]

Whilst there is little doubt that anything that has a valve in its signal path can be susceptible to microphony (despite having been used in pro environments for decades), how important is this with other topologies? - I really dont know. Personally, I have not been able to hear much difference on the basis of what equipment rack I've used but in all fairness, I have not really made an effort to find out, so perhaps thats just me and they say ignorance is bliss.

Naim for example, 'suspend' their circuit boards and have kind of 'floating' inlet sockets which are not solidly fixed. Again, I can't really see how much good that does as they are still connected. At best, I would have thought, they shift the frequency of vibrations to the equipment to a level 'less harmful' (?) ... perhaps that is the point of the exercise. (On the other hand, I have noticed semi-loops of cabling and a general refusal to twist internal cabling in order to maintain their USP of very neat wiring, usually in very (!) straight lines in some of their designs, including streamers which, if anything, are probably more detrimental to sound by acting as antennas for interference pick-up, go figure).

Do you hear differences by isolating equipment in one form or another? Speakers excluded.

regards

 

[drummerman]

... and what is going on with this forum again that everything comes out in one block?? |(

Then you have Active speakers, many of which build amplification in or attach it to the speaker cabinets with apparently little reported harm to sound. PMC, ATC are just two names. Does that make a mockery of the many attempts to coax us into spending money for hifi only related vibration problems?

No idea

regards

 

[floyd droid]

A guy I know very well down here marketed some of these anti vibe doodahs a fair while ago. At his house we did A/B tests under his SS amp and cdp. The difference in sq was quite noticable, However , we tried them under my cdp and amps , no change in sq whatsoever, none that we could hear anyways. So I came to the conclusion , which didnt go down too well , that his gear was plain shoddily built with no thought given to internal damping etc , and thats why his spike things made a difference. Twernt cheap stuff either.

So ,yeah something must have been going on in his resonant box of trannies. Was it all the gubbins inside making the tin box sing ?. At the end of the day wires vibrate , so isolating the circuit boards on a floating chassis , in theory, shouldnt make a blind bit of difference as you say.

Interesting stuff but a can of worms could be opened here pretty soon.

Do I use anything , nah my gear sounds damn fine to me. I would sooner spend my money on some records than fiddle around with submarine soundproofing stuff and the like.

 

[Overdose]

SS sound equipment is not subject to microphony. Helicopter audio systems above all else, must be testament to this.

 

[shafesk]

Well I think its easy to see where microphony affects a system if you look at extreme cases. I believe that isolation makes the best differences to turntables, cdps and speakers Turntables suffer the most under poor isolation especially when placed near speakers. The difference after market isolation makes to lighter turntables is far more noticeable than the difference it makes to heavier ones. There is no doubt about the benefits of using spikes under speakers.

In my experience I have found that using rubber disk under equipment makes more of a difference than aftermarket isolation cones. The biggest differences were made to speakers then turntables and then cd players. When I placed the cones under my Cayin amp it made no appreciable differences, which might partly be due to the fact that its a solidly built 18kg battleship. Of course you could take my experience and imply that proper isolation makes a difference to poorly built or light weight equipment and that is what I also believe.

 

[andyjm]

Many electronic components are microphonic. Typically, if the electrical properties of the component change when mechanical stress is applied, then depending on the circuit topology, this can lead to microphonic effects. Capacitors, transformers and even resistors can exhibit this effect to various degrees.

Good circuit design and appropriate component selction can minimise this. The easy way to check if this could be a problem for you is to turn up the volume of your amp and tap the casing of your DAC, preamp, CD player or whatever. If there is no sound output from the speakers, then your equipment is not microphonic and you can worry about something else.

 

[drummerman]

I guess thats as good and sensible a view I've heard. However, the effects of vibrations could be more subtle and depending on frequency, could affect diffferent components in different ways. Similar in some ways to open or solid and filled speaker stands or solid and thin panel speaker enclosures. Light materials store less energy but they still store energy. A knock or tapping of equipment may not reveal the full extend of harm done, if there is any that is.

I dont know enough about the physics of such issues, I dont even know to what an extend they are audible or if it matters at all in the greater scheme of things but it's interesting to hear different views.

It would also be interesting if some manufacturers would give their explanations.

regards

 

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[Vladimir]

The most common snake oil pseudo-science in Hi-Fi is to treat massless/weightless electrons in the mechanical domain.

For example amplifiers like Naims have straight unbraided, unshielded wires, unshielded transformers. They worry in a cast enclosed solid state amp about vibration and not the magnetic field coming from the transformer and each unshielded wire. Strange? Nope. It's PR@T.

 

[davidvann]

hi drummerman,knowing i will probley get shot down for this,i have tryed many types of isolation in my system from sqwash balls ,rdc cones townsend secsimic platforms,to date the all brought about an improvement in how my system has sounded,im sure i wasnt just hearing thing or my mind playing tricks on me,as some would surggest,but now having tryed stillpoints on my system they are best isolation products out there,i pretty sure if you get a chance to borrow some the chances are you wont want to give them back. merry xmas david

 

[CnoEvil]

I have done a fair bit of experimentation, both with cheap DIY solutions as well as more expensive solutions.

The conclusion I have reached is that there are no hard and fast rules and personal experimentation is key.

I have found the following:

- There is usually (though not always) a change in sound, which is not always for the better.

- There is no guarantee that a more expensive product will be better....though effective, well engineered solutions from the likes of Track Audio and Townshend, are expensive.

- Different kit seems to react differently.

- Some of the biggest effects were on Sources.

 

[drummerman]

hi drummerman,knowing i will probley get shot down for this,i have tryed many types of isolation in my system from sqwash balls ,rdc cones townsend secsimic platforms,to date the all brought about an improvement in how my system has sounded,im sure i wasnt just hearing thing or my mind playing tricks on me,as some would surggest,but now having tryed stillpoints on my system they are best isolation products out there,i pretty sure if you get a chance to borrow some the chances are you wont want to give them back. merry xmas david

Merry Christmas to you.

That's a two year old thread some spammer brought back (not you)

Whilst I have a healty dose of scepticism towards all things 'hifi tuning' I too use isolation devices under my cyrus components and my other beloved system including my Sony receiver.

In case of the first one, I use Fisual adhesive isolation pads. They go lovely with the cyrus system and add to the visual appearance of each 'brick'. Furthermore, they are perfectly sized to fit into the matching cyrus hark MK1 rack.

Do they make any audible difference? Again, no idea, perhaps when blasting at volume but even then I dunno. I don't really care to be honest. It's (to me) a lovely system and I don't skimp on the add-ons. The pads don't cost much and certainly don't do any harm, the power leads are upgraded (I posted details in another thread) and they too are very cheap compared with some ridicilously priced alternatives. Same pretty much goes for interconnects and speaker wires. I certainly wouldn't use the cheapest cables I can find but at the same time I am not stupid enough to splash out silly money on it.

I have been long enough in this game to know what I like and dislike without getting carried away.

Glad to hear the still points work for you.

 

[CnoEvil]

That's a two year old thread some spammer brought back (not you)

Balls! *fool*

 

[drummerman]

That's a two year old thread some spammer brought back (not you)

Balls! *fool*

Just noticed 'Anonymous' revived the thread earlier this year. Apologies to him.