Mediocre Amplifier + High Quality Speakers.

[admin_exported]

Is it a fact that for over all sound quality , speaker is the important factor? Is it possible to keep the overall investment on a HiFi system within budget by going for average electronics but high quality speakers?

cheers -sks

 

[Anonymous]

Not at all!

In fact I would start by getting a good source, add a similar priced amp and perhaps slightly cheaper speakers. It is less true than it was with LPs but you'll never hear anything better than the quality of your music source.

I would spend 40% on source, 30% on amp and 30% on speakers. If you want to save money consider buying a second hand amp!

If you are at a price point where you are looking at pre/power amp, getting the best pre is more important than having extra power.

Speakers are the component where personal taste has the biggest impact so lsiten to them with the rest of your kit before buying.

 

[Anonymous]

sks:

Is it a fact that for over all sound quality , speaker is the important factor?

No, but it is an opinion which many people subscribe to. As the hackneyed saying goes, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link. That said, I would suggest that in most budget to midrange setups, more money could usefully be spent on the aplification and speakers than the source.

 

[Gerrardasnails]

tractorboy:sks:

Is it a fact that for over all sound quality , speaker is the important factor?

No, but it is an opinion which many people subscribe to. As the hackneyed saying goes, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link. That said, I would suggest that in most budget to midrange setups, more money could usefully be spent on the aplification and speakers than the source.

I agree, if you have great speakers but your amp doesn't have the power, synergy, accuracy for them, it won't sound great.

 

[Anonymous]

Well my first realisation of sound quality was when I was a teenager and bought a cheap walkman (I think it was Matsui). I noticed the sound wasnt great with the earphones supplied with it, but it wasnt until until I plugged in some panasonic earphones (and they were still only about £10 worth) that the difference was unbelieveable. I noticed the matsui earphone were extremely muddy sounding and the panasonics opened the sound up no end. This has led to my view that speakers/earphones can make a huge difference. I have very little experience of proper hi fi components though.

 

[Anonymous]

well, I have a cheap amp and cheap speakers and cheap cd player ...

pioneer A400 amp-(£70)

B&W hand built DM2 (1st series) 3-way transmission speakers (£50)

Mararantz CD63 signature cd player (£130)

sounds very fine to me for the £250 I have spent (actually spent a bit more if you take into account the speaker cable (a big box full of various old speaker cables removed from restuarants during refurbishments) and the speaker stands and hi-fi stand

so bottom line ....you dont need to buy new ... I prefer much better quality for the same price even if it means buying 2nd hand

 

[plastic penguin]

You can't make poor sounding amp brilliant with top-notch speakers. I concur with the others, there is a synthesis of talented electronics and speakers that produce a great sound.

However, if you have a good amp and CDP you can vastly improve it with better and better speakers IMO.

 

[Anonymous]

I would probably spend no more than 25% on the source perhaps even less. The difference between a £1000 cd player and a £150 cd player is no where near as great as the difference between speakers of the same price range, the same goes for amplification.

Second hand is always a good way to go to extract the best sound for your cash, plenty of bargains on Ebay.

 

[the record spot]

Total fallacy to think that speakers have the greatest bearing on sound IMO. Great speakers won't make rubbish inputs sound great. GIGO as ever for me. If going by vinyl, then the source demands the biggest spend. Thereafter, a more even split for digital.

And yes, I am speaking as one using an old NAD3020 as an amp currently, but that's partly down to the NAD being a rather good amp capable of punching well above its' weight and limited funds to buy a better one currently.

(Thought the £30 a Sansui 217 went for means I'll have a bit of a comparison thing going on in the next week or so...!)

 

[matthewpiano]

dim_span:
well, I have a cheap amp and cheap speakers and cheap cd player ...

pioneer A400 amp-(£70)

B&W hand built DM2 (1st series) 3-way transmission speakers (£50)

Mararantz CD63 signature cd player (£130)

sounds very fine to me for the £250 I have spent (actually spent a bit more if you take into account the speaker cable (a big box full of various old speaker cables removed from restuarants during refurbishments) and the speaker stands and hi-fi stand

so bottom line ....you dont need to buy new ... I prefer much better quality for the same price even if it means buying 2nd hand

Personally I think you would struggle to improve on that system without spending considerable amounts of money, and even then I think you'd risk losing some of the magic. Sounds like a bargain buy to me.

 

[jaxwired]

sks, great question. The answer is yes, but...

Amplifiers generally show big improvements in quality as you move from £200 to £1000. After that, improvements are generally minimal, if any at all. Same rule for CDPs.

So, if you can swing say £500 to £800 on the amp and the same for CDP, you will get a very big bang for your buck.

Then spend all you can on speakers. Speakers do not follow the same rule as amp and CDP. Because speakers vary much more widely in construction and size. Up to £5000 on floorstanding speakers will usually give good value. Although very good choices exist in the £1000 to £2000 range. Beyond £5000 (for floorstanders), improvements are less obvious and you are paying big money for small improvements.

So to answer your question, I would not pair a £200 amp with £3000 speakers. But I would happily pair a £800 amp with £3000 speakers.

And as always, the most important factor is synergy. If the Amp, CDP, and speakers compliment each others strengths and weaknesses, the sum will be better than the parts.

 

[Frank Harvey]

sks: Is it a fact that for over all sound quality , speaker is the important factor? Is it possible to keep the overall investment on a HiFi system within budget by going for average electronics but high quality speakers?There are different views on this, and most will stick with what they want to believe.

Speakers tend to show the biggest immediate difference to most people's ears, hence those that think speakers make the biggest difference, regardless of amplification. What many don't realise is that if a speaker isn't driven sufficiently, it's not going to sound it's worth. For example, if you stick a £3k pair of speakers on a £200 amp, those speakers aren't going to sound like £3k's worth - you'll probably be lucky to get £1k's worth.

When a speaker is underdriven, it tends to sound soft in the bass, lacking any real punch and precision. If your speakers sound like this, borrow a more powerful amplifier, and you'll hear the difference straight away.

 

[Anonymous]

People will often believe what their experience tells them. You will only know how well it works by trying them together.

My Spendor SA1s (£1300) sounded rather damn good on the end of my Rotel RA03 (£450) and it was a combo that I lived with until I could afford to upgrade the amp. A new amp on my old MA RS1s would not have been an adequate upgrade for me because the speakers just didn't suit me. Buying with an even budget across all components also assumes that you'll never want to upgrade. If you do then you'll lose money selling old components.

Try splitting your budget a few different ways and try some amp-speaker combos to see what you like. The garbage in garbage out principle applies but only in certain proportions. My OH can't tell the different between music through my £130 DVD player versus my £1,100 CDP. She can tell the difference between my MA RS1 and Spendor SA1 though!

 

[plastic penguin]

Similar to iggle - but I'm a big believer in sensitivity. My 40 watter rigged to my RS6's sounds impressive, but I have to concede that a more expensive amp will sound better.

When I've tested the old Roksan kandy LIII and Cyrus 8VS2 with MA's the difference was noticeable, compared to my Arcam, although not overwhelming. It all boils down to personal taste and aspirations.

 

[Anonymous]

jaxwired:
sks, great question. The answer is yes, but...

Amplifiers generally show big improvements in quality as you move from £200 to £1000. After that, improvements are generally minimal, if any at all. Same rule for CDPs.

So, if you can swing say £500 to £800 on the amp and the same for CDP, you will get a very big bang for your buck.

Then spend all you can on speakers. Speakers do not follow the same rule as amp and CDP. Because speakers vary much more widely in construction and size. Up to £5000 on floorstanding speakers will usually give good value. Although very good choices exist in the £1000 to £2000 range. Beyond £5000 (for floorstanders), improvements are less obvious and you are paying big money for small improvements.

So to answer your question, I would not pair a £200 amp with £3000 speakers. But I would happily pair a £800 amp with £3000 speakers.

And as always, the most important factor is synergy. If the Amp, CDP, and speakers compliment each others strengths and weaknesses, the sum will be better than the parts.

I am 100% with jaxwired on this one. Amps make a big difference but once you get adequate and high quality amplification, it's the speakers that make the most difference.

 

[SHAXOS]

I used to own cyrus and bel canto equipment. I have used 6 powers bi amped and these sounded no where near as good as a single Xpower on the same speakers. The 8 powers sounded similar. The x power is around 1000 so was the s300 bel canto i had which sounded even better. So these are amps in roughly the same price bracket and there were big changes. I then moved to my current KW550 and the improvements were MASSIVE. I mean litterally straight away i was like WOW! So id say never skimp on the amp if you can. So my main point is amps can and do make a difference as you move from 1000 pound amps onwards.

Although i still belong to the school of thought that the Speakers make the MOST difference.

 

[Anonymous]

I am with them who said - go for speakers first. Updating electronic is more easy process then updating speakers. At least you can pick up some amplifier for home demo easier then speakers. And selling old one amplifier is easier then speakers.

 

[Anonymous]

dim_span:
Mararantz CD63 signature cd player (£130)

You brough back memories there! I had an earlier Marantz CD63 as part of my first 'hi-fi' (by which I mean move from big £100 moulded plastic all-in-one) about 15 years ago and absolutely loved it.

 

[Bodfish]

I can see some mileage in going for the best speakers you can first and running them with a well regarded amp in a lower price bracket. Even more so if you know your listening space is likely to remain unchanged for a long period of time and you have an end game in mind as far as the electronics go.

Would also agree with SHAXOS - there are very real and obvious differences in CDPs and amps as you get over £1k.

 

[Anonymous]

Unfortunately, there is no simple answer to this one.

In fact, there is no simple answer to anything hi-fi related. If there was any simple answers, it would make all our lives easier!

The fact is, each and every component is important. Skimp any along the way, and the result is not as good as it can be.

It is really trying to find the best component within our budget and sharing it as equally as possible - while at the same time, ensuring that as a whole, they perform very well and to our liking.

Dan.