Marantz MCR603, Onkyo TX8050 or CA NP30?

Gareth82

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Hi everyone,

I will have a budget of around £400 to change something in my system in the new year and was at first thinking of changing my Amp but have since changed my mind and thought that maybe i would be best to either add a streamer (Cambridge Audio NP30) or to kill two birds with one stone and get something like the MarantzMCR603 or Onkyo TX8050 to replace my Arcam AMp and CDP.

I am trying to get the best space saving and sound quality solution that i can.

Would i be best to go for the Cambridge Audio NP3 (and selling the CD72) as this should give me the best sound quality?

Or go for the Marantz or Onkyo and although i may lose some quality i would be gaining more space which would help me get the smaller equipment footprint that i need?

By going for the Marantz or Onkyo would i really lose that great deal of sound quality from my Arcam set up i currently have?

Any Advice/Opinions would be a great help, Thanks.
 
This is a tricky one: Having not heard the Marantz or Onkyo can't directly comment. Given I owned the A65 - the Plus version - and hearing it with PMC speakers and Exposure CDP it sounded astonishing for the money. Even with the CD73T and MA speakers it was mightily impressive, hence why I had to replace it with a £1,300 amp (Leema).

The only thing you can do to be really sure is to audition and compare with your current system.

You need to decide once and for all whether you're looking for a 'space saving' set-up or separates.

If it were me with £400 I'd buy a P75 or P80 and replace the speakers. The MAs and Arcam is a gem combo. By the same token, the CD72 is a cracking CDP for the money. Likewise, I've compared my CD73T with far more expensive all-in-one streamers (Naim and Olive) and in pure sonic terms, although they are better than the Arcam, aren't good enough to justify spending the premium.
 

Gareth82

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Thanks for the reply PP.

Yes i think with this one i will have to arrange a demo at my local Richer Sounds as they stock all theree of them.

Once i have decided whcih one i will go for my next step would be to change the speakers as they do seem to be the weak link of my system.

The thing at the moment is that i am trying to also get a new surround sound system and would like to keep a seperate system for music and movies so i can only upgrade one thing in my system for now.

The only other option would be to not get a surround sound system and put all of my budget into a better hi fi combo and use that for music and movies in a 2.1 system. The thing is i watch alot of movies and listen to music alot so it is finding which would be the best set up.
 
T

the record spot

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It depends what you want I suppose Gareth; with the Cambridge unit, you'll need an amp, so you either keep your Arcam or get another one. If you want to reduce the box count, then the Onkyo or the Marantz are better options.

If the latter, there's probably not going to be much to separate the two on paper, both offer broadly similar functions, with the Onkyo being the more powerful in terms of amplifier power and having greater connectivity options. Both offer Apple connectivity, but the Marantz is alone of the two in offering Airplay (I think...).

The Marantz has the better build to the fascia (though the styling leaves me cold I must admit) and has won a stack of tests for its performance. The Onkyo is a tad plasticky and build could be a little better I think, but if that's not a problem, it's worth shortlisting as you've done. If it means they've invested more attention to detail "under the hood", then all well and good. I'll be interested to hear what you end up buying.
 
One thing I found with the A65, something I mentioned a fair bit before plumping for the Leema, when playing films through my budget DVD recorder it had tremendous 'virtual' surround sound, even at modest levels.

One film that springs to mind is 'Saving Private Ryan'. The initial beach landing scenes sounded fantastic - the popping of automatic rifles sounded like it was coming from the back door...

I think with your current set-up it'll give you bit more flexibilty, but I'm sure the pro Marantz brigade will totally denounce the claim.

From personal experience speakers will make the biggest upgrade. I like Wharfedale (owned a the brand from 1979 until my introduction into the world of MAs in 2007), but like my E20s they are party animals, lacking finesse and subtlety of newer brands. One of the promotional hoardings at the time stated (paraphrasing): "If you like to entertain the neighbourhood, the new 'E' range from Wharfedale are perfect."
 

Gareth82

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Thank you for the replies everyone.

I guess i will have to wait for my demos and let my ears decide which option to go for. I can then look at better speakers etc..

And yes PP, i agree with you about the Arcam with movies, i am currently using it at the moment and when i watched the new Transformers movie on Blu Ray today i was very impressed with how good it sounded.

One more question i do have, while in town today i saw a second hand Roksan Kandy KA-1 Amp in mint condition going for £269. Does anyone know if the Roksan is any good and if the price is a good deal?

Thanks
 
Gareth82 said:
Thank you for the replies everyone.

I guess i will have to wait for my demos and let my ears decide which option to go for. I can then look at better speakers etc..

And yes PP, i agree with you about the Arcam with movies, i am currently using it at the moment and when i watched the new Transformers movie on Blu Ray today i was very impressed with how good it sounded.

One more question i do have, while in town today i saw a second hand Roksan Kandy KA-1 Amp in mint condition going for £269. Does anyone know if the Roksan is any good and if the price is a good deal?

Thanks

If the Roksan Kandy is a MKIII it'll be like adding a bomb to your set-up: Shed-loads of power (120 watts per channel) and was a former award winner, eventually knocked off its perch by Rotel RA-03.

I've had the Kandy LIII, improved MKIII, is very good but I found it to be slightly boistrous with certain styles of music. Your Wharfedales pump out an awful lot of bass, so may not be a good match with the Kandy.
 

Gareth82

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Thanks for the reply PP.

I'm not sure if it was a MKIII, i think it had K2 written on it, i only had a quick look at it but it was in 'like new' condition. It seems to be a good price for it but it may be abit too much for my speakers, they throw out shed loads of bass with my A65 as it is so maybe the Roksan may be abit too much.

Would the Roksan be considerd better than my A65?
 
Gareth82 said:
Thanks for the reply PP.

I'm not sure if it was a MKIII, i think it had K2 written on it, i only had a quick look at it but it was in 'like new' condition. It seems to be a good price for it but it may be abit too much for my speakers, they throw out shed loads of bass with my A65 as it is so maybe the Roksan may be abit too much.

Would the Roksan be considerd better than my A65?

Without sounding like a stuck record, I did an awful lot of [home] auditioning before buying the Leema. I'll list the ones I liked and the reasons why I didn't buy:

Upto £1,000

Arcam A70: A wet blanket. Nicely detailed but not as gutsy as the A65 IMO.

Roksan Kandy LIII: Fabulous in most areas; good detail; loads of power on tap; good aesthetics; slightly overwhelming with certain music. Conclusion was very good but not good enough to warrant spending £250 over the Arcam's retail price.

Cyrus 8VS2: Wonderful detail with female voices; open sounding, but not as good an all-rounder as the Kandy despite the price tag at the time of £800

Primare I21: Good, smooth presentation; fairly powerful; slight lack of control at top-end.

Rotel RA-06: Very fast, uptempo bass; wonderful insight; didn't quite click with MAs (may well be very good with Wharfedales).

Naim Nait 5i MK1 version: Not impressed by the home dem; IMO the combo of Arcam CDP and RS6 made it too fatiguing. Literally gave a headache.

Marantz 7001 (not KI): Very good in most areas; the bass and midrange very impressive; can sound slightly bloated and the top-end a little brittle with wrong speakers.

Nad 352: Very chunky bass; warm presentation; good detail; lack of inputs eg. no built-in phono stage. Too bass heavy for my taste.

Creek Evo2: Without question the best of the bunch; fast, punchy bass; tonal balance similar to Arcam; detailed mids and treble. The only reason why I didn't buy one was because a (relative) lack of inputs. Phono board cost was well over £100 or alternatively a suitable DAC.

£1,000 or above

Roksan Caspian M1: Excellent in many areas; flexible in terms of speakers; very convincing sound, no real faults; no phono input for turntable.

Naim Nait XS: Another very impressive integrated; very good detail levels; gutsy, up front presentation, let down by tonal qualities. Not really my cup of tea.

Leema Pulse MKII: Has all the positive sonic attributes of the Caspian and XS plus a very fast, controlled bass; fabulous phono stage.

In addition to the integrateds I heard the Arcam Solo (original). Very smooth sounding; offers an awful lot for the money, but after speaking to the Arcam rep he confessed it wouldn't quite have the sonic ability of the A65 + CD73.

All this happened within a two year period. I heard others but they didn't merit a review because way beyond my budget or just a quick showroom listen.

Hope this helps.
 

Gareth82

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Thank you very much PP, that is very helpfull.

Which ever i decide to go for i would like to at least match or better my Arcam set up. In the last twelve months i have gone from a £100 budget Sony strdh100 and iPod dock to a Arcam Alpha 5+ Amp and Alpha One CDP to my A65 and CD72 and want to make sure i don't take a step backwards in sound quality.

I think i would need to choose my streamer first and then look at speakers, amps etc and go from there.
 
Gareth82 said:
Thank you very much PP, that is very helpfull.

Which ever i decide to go for i would like to at least match or better my Arcam set up. In the last twelve months i have gone from a £100 budget Sony strdh100 and iPod dock to a Arcam Alpha 5+ Amp and Alpha One CDP to my A65 and CD72 and want to make sure i don't take a step backwards in sound quality.

I think i would need to choose my streamer first and then look at speakers, amps etc and go from there.

The problem is that all the amps mentioned are very capable. Even though I mentioned Nait 5i gave me a headache, this was on my current system. When I heard that amp at 'The Towers' with ATC speakers, and PMC and MonoPulse speakers at one of my regular dealers, it was a different propostion.

The main point of this is not necessarily how good the amp is but how it'll fit into your system...this is why dems are so essential (sorry for stating the obvious).
 

Gareth82

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Yes you are right PP. I will be doing quiet a few demos in the new year and take my time with things, there is no need to rush and i wan't to make sure i make the right choices and don't regret anything. I want to base my system around a streamer so i will demo and choose one of these first, i can then see how it performs with my system and see if i need to upgrade anything etc after that. I think a few store demos followed by a short list of home demos may be the best option. The thing with streamers they are such a mind field and some of them seem over priced for what they can do etc.. so i will need to do quiet abit of research first.
 

Gareth82

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Thanks for that Record Spot, that was very helpfull.

It seems all the reviews i have found on line seem to be very posative so far. I was speaking to the other half today about what Amps i like etc and she said she would rather me (a) Get something new and more modern (b) get something that matches everything else (my A65 and CD72 are silver, everything else is black) (c) get something that does what i need all in one box. So it would seem that unless i can persued her otherwise it is going to be a shootout between the Onkyo or Marantz MCR603.

If i do have to go with either of these two, which one would you persionally buy?
 

Mr. Iceman

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Gareth82 said:
Thanks for that Record Spot, that was very helpfull.

It seems all the reviews i have found on line seem to be very posative so far. I was speaking to the other half today about what Amps i like etc and she said she would rather me (a) Get something new and more modern (b) get something that matches everything else (my A65 and CD72 are silver, everything else is black) (c) get something that does what i need all in one box. So it would seem that unless i can persued her otherwise it is going to be a shootout between the Onkyo or Marantz MCR603.

If i do have to go with either of these two, which one would you persionally buy?

It really comes down to which one you yourself would buy.

And if your 'better half' has so much influence, why don't you present her with choices and take her advice? Maybe even arrange for demo together? I got me a '603 when there was no 8050 nor would I consider something like the 8050. The Marantz on the whole is a very complete unit for what I intended. I am extremely happy with it and the missus is very pleased with its unobtrusive and understated looks which is a big bonus.

She just prefers more upbeat sound of her Denon DM-37 :doh:
 

Gareth82

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My wife has had quiet abit of input into what to choose etc and i will be taking her along to the demos. I have got quiet a busy new year as i need to demo and decide on a new Home Cinema Sytem, a iPod Dock or Epoz Active speakers for the bedroom, Hi Fi Streamers and then possible new amps etc..

The main thing i want is a compact system that doesn't take up too much space but also has good sound quality, i'm very tempted to forget about a home cinema system and got something like a Rega Brio R, Rega Dac and SB Touch and use that for music and movies.

One thing i would like to ask, are you using a Nas with your Marantz and if so, how easy was it to setup, does it suffer from any drop outs and what is it like navigating through the music files that are on the Nas?
 
T

the record spot

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I agree with the earlier poster who said you should have a listen, but seeing as you asked, if it were a blind purchase, it's be the Onkyo anyday of the week. Better amp section (my 751s are 6ohm speakers, so I'd get the full 130wpc which in turn better controls the speaker drive units), the Marantz offers 40wpc at 8ohms, 60 at 6ohms.

The Onkyo offers more digital inputs (2x Coax, 2x Optical), covers all the file formats I'll use, okay it doesn't have Airplay, but the Marantz will soon offer that facility only if you pay the extra £40, the free inclusion drops in the New Year. It has better connectivity in general and for my tastes, looks better. Nicer interface, although the build quality is slightly second to the 603.

I've no idea why the earlier poster said he;d never consider the Onkyo, it sounds like he's dismissed out of hand which - IMO - is a mistake. I've never heard it, but then again, I wouldn't be so shortsighted as to do the same. It's got a supreme spec for what it is, plus Superfi are doing it for £269 till midnight tonight. Okay, it's not been reviewed, but then again, I put a lot of store into owner opinions and I haven't read a bad one yet around this unit.

Obviously, the 603 has its fans too, but the design doesn't do much for me. If they'd stuck with the fascia they put on the Melody ER-803, then it'd have been a more appealing layout (although the 803's connectivity was woeful). Build quality will be the usual Marantz high standard I assume and sound quality will be as good as ever. All that said, I'd still go with the Onkyo. At any rate, you can always return in 7 days for a refund thanks to the distance selling regulations and only pay postage which is good for me as there aren't any units to demo in Edinburgh, so Superfi's offer looks good. If you're demoing though, you'll be able to hear the pair of them side by side in your local Richer Sounds.
 

Gareth82

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Thanks for the reply Record Spot.

I will be going to richer sounds in the new year to demo both the Onkyo and Marantz side by side. The Onkyo would suit my speakers best as the are also 6ohms and would be better suited to them, plus the thing i like most about the Onkyo is that you can playback music files from a external hard drive as well and it has got alot of inputs for the money.

I guess i will have to let my ears be the judge and see what happens, i know richer sounds would push the Onkyo more than the Marantz so i will just have to see what i think. There is also rumours that the Onkyo may support Airplay with a firmware update but i doubt if i would use that feature anyway.

I will keep you posted on what i choose as i will be getting my new AV receiver and speaker package first.

Are you thinking of getting the Onkyo Record Spot or are you waiting for a review first?
 
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the record spot

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Reckon if I wait for a review on the Onkyo, I'll be waiting a while mate...!

Definitely thinking about the Onkyo - it all seems to fit my needs to a tee - just need to hear it though to be sure. Four digital inputs is excellent, the 603 has one (optical) but then it doesn't make claims to be a home for all your digital needs, so it does what it does very well by all accounts.

The Onkyo though does seem to see itself as the one-stop-shop so I could use it for my TV and playing music off the laptop on occasion. It's neat, build could be better, but that's about the only gripe ahead of hearing it. If it turns out it's a pup, then that's a shame as everything else about it is pretty much what I'm after.
 

Gareth82

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Yes i think if the sound quality is good then it looks like a winner to me. I have never been one to jsut buy things on the review or just get something because of which make it is, having a demo is obviously the best way as everyone has a different taste in music and which sound they like etc.

I am hoping the Onkyo does sound better than the Marantz as it is a full sized seperates amp and not a micro like the Marantz but i do know that for what the Marantz does what it is ment to very well.

If you manage to demo or buy the Marantz before i do then it would be good if you could let me know how you got on with it, i will be having a demo in the new year but not before then as my wife is due to have our second child any day now so will be abit pushed for time this side of christmas.

One thing i did want to ask you, the Onkyo can run a power amp but onkyo don't seem to make that many of them and the ones they do are very expensive, if i chose to run a power amp can i use another make other than onkyo and would i have to make sure any specs would match? My only reason for asking is that my speakers can be bi amped and it would be good to be able to use this feature of the space allowed it.
 
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the record spot

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Yep, it'll take a power amp alright, not sure of all the ins-and-outs of this, but from memory vaguely recall folk talking about ensuring the gain of both amps match. If a passing tech Ed is nearby feel free to drop in and comment...!

No plans on getting the Marantz, but the Onkyo is pretty much on. If I do splash out, I'll let you know!
 

Gareth82

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Ok thanks, i'll keep you updated on what i find in the coming months, if the onkyo is a winner i think it could also make a good second system for the bedroom as well as you can use their wireless usb dongle with it.
 

Mr. Iceman

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the record spot said:
I've no idea why the earlier poster said he;d never consider the Onkyo, it sounds like he's dismissed out of hand which - IMO - is a mistake. I've never heard it, but then again, I wouldn't be so shortsighted as to do the same.

RS, if you have no idea why I'd never consider the Onkyo, you could always ask and not suggest I made a mistake and call me shortsighted on top of that? Little harsh, no?

I was on a downsizing path - I needed a CD player and everything else that 603 has, in one unit with footprint half of the Onkyo's, that's all. I never said Onkyo was inferior to Marantz, it is better in many ways, but also bigger, without CD player and uglier - at least in the eyes of this beholder.
 

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