Mains Blocks and Cables

[admin_exported]

I know that there have been a few posts on this sort of topic, none of which really answer any question apart from whether or not you need to be mad to buy them!

I am about to buy a load of new kit (Panasonic TX-32 LXD700, Onkyo TX-SR605, KEF KHT 3005SE, Sony RDR HXD970) and wondered how many mains-leads would I need?

Based on the assumption that they actually make a difference (could someone please tell me whether or not they do?), I wondered if I purchased the Merlin Black Widow 4-way block will that give me all the benefits (if any) or will I also need to buy 4 separate mains leads to attach each piece of kit to the block?

Cheers.

 

[Anonymous]

I refer you to the concurrent thread "unterminated mains lead", and also huge amounts of older discussion under mostly obvious titles in "Accessories" forum.

Consensus is : there is no consensus.

I.e. Try at home (on your own mains supply) before you buy and make your own mind up. Approach with an open mind and be honest to yourself. If you hear/see a difference fantastic (better sound/picture), if you don't also fantastic (you just saved yourself some pennies!), but be your own judge and if in doubt, don't buy - you can always change your mind later. Harder once you've splashed the cash. Just my two penn'orth of course

 

[clearer_audio]

Hi marshal478, You will gain benefits across your whole system from using a dedicated block like the Merlin Black Widow or our Copper-line Power-HUB even when using standard cables but for optimal performance it is advisable to have dedicated shielded power cables for each individual component. You would require a power cable for your Panasonic TX-32LXD700, Onkyo TX-SR605 and also your Sony RDR-HXD970. Many customers choose to get a block first and then add the power cables in stages (or you can do it the other way round). You will get views on both sides as to the value of dedicated blocks and power cables but as jimwall has pointed out you should ultimately judge for yourself. We offer a 60 Day Money Back Guarantee so you can try our products in your own system; so you can return any product for a full refund should you feel it is not working for you. I hope that I have been of assistance to you - if you have any questions or queries please feel free to call us on 01702 543981 (Mon-Fri 9am-6pm) and we will do our best to help you further. Kind regards, Darren Smith

 

[Anonymous]

What if the mains cables on the separate items are an integral part of the system? Surely re-wiring it (I struggle with a 3-pin plug!!!) would void the warranty.

Secondly, I did a sort of basic placebo test with the missus on our 23 inch Samsung LCD TV (bedroom telly!) with Fox T Free-view box, and noticed absolutely no difference in picture quality between our free power lead and a QED Qonduit 'high performance' mains lead. I appreciate that these are far cheaper than the copper-line cables, but QED have fantastic write-ups with everything else (besides their SCART cable DEFINITELY made a difference to picture quality compared to the freebies. Anyway, as a result of this lack of increase in performance I am now in the 'skeptical' camp on mains leads. I live in a brand-new house could the new mains wiring have anything to do with this, or is it all a load of old cobblers?!

Cheers

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="marshal478"]
What if the mains cables on the separate items are an integral part of the system? Surely re-wiring it (I struggle with a 3-pin plug!!!) would void the warranty.

Secondly, I did a sort of basic placebo test with the missus on our 23 inch Samsung LCD TV (bedroom telly!) with Fox T Free-view box, and noticed absolutely no difference in picture quality between our free power lead and a QED Qonduit 'high performance' mains lead. I appreciate that these are far cheaper than the copper-line cables, but QED have fantastic write-ups with everything else (besides their SCART cable DEFINITELY made a difference to picture quality compared to the freebies. Anyway, as a result of this lack of increase in performance I am now in the 'skeptical' camp on mains leads. I live in a brand-new house could the new mains wiring have anything to do with this, or is it all a load of old cobblers?!

Cheers

[/quote]

The guy above is selling mains cables so you would expect him to promote them. If you think about it there really isn't any way they can make a difference. It's the green paint for CD type of thinking.

 

[Anton90125]

[quote user="Keith McAlpine"]

The guy above is selling mains cables so you would expect him to promote them. If you think about it there really isn't any way they can make a difference. It's the green paint for CD type of thinking.[/quote]

The one thing I have learnt in the last 30 years of hifi is to keep an open mind despite what my common sense told me

I had many arguments with friends about biwiring until I had its virtues demonstrated to me

I know mains IS noisy. I use a variac set to unity as a inductive filter ( I got the idea from watching a number of Hifi manufactures at a Hifi show in the late 90's ). Its easy to tell when I have in place and when its not (blind tested).

I will reserve judgment on whether a simple/complex mains cable works or not until such time I can test it for myself

Yes the guy is trying to sell mains cable but he is also offering a full refund if you get no benefit from it use. No one is really loosing are they? I wish Hifi manufactures adopted a similar policy as standard.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="clearer_audio"]Hi marshal478, You will gain benefits across your whole system from using a dedicated block like the Merlin Black Widow or our Copper-line Power-HUB even when using standard cables but for optimal performance it is advisable to have dedicated shielded power cables for each individual component. You would require a power cable for your Panasonic TX-32LXD700, Onkyo TX-SR605 and also your Sony RDR-HXD970. Many customers choose to get a block first and then add the power cables in stages (or you can do it the other way round). You will get views on both sides as to the value of dedicated blocks and power cables but as jimwall has pointed out you should ultimately judge for yourself. We offer a 60 Day Money Back Guarantee so you can try our products in your own system; so you can return any product for a full refund should you feel it is not working for you. I hope that I have been of assistance to you - if you have any questions or queries please feel free to call us on 01702 543981 (Mon-Fri 9am-6pm) and we will do our best to help you further. Kind regards, Darren Smith[/quote] i think that says it all. if you see it /hear it keep it if you dont send it back

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Anton90125"][quote user="Keith McAlpine"]

The guy above is selling mains cables so you would expect him to promote them. If you think about it there really isn't any way they can make a difference. It's the green paint for CD type of thinking.[/quote]

The one thing I have learnt in the last 30 years of hifi is to keep an open mind despite what my common sense told me

I had many arguments with friends about biwiring until I had its virtues demonstrated to me

I know mains IS noisy. I use a variac set to unity as a inductive filter ( I got the idea from watching a number of Hifi manufactures at a Hifi show in the late 90's ). Its easy to tell when I have in place and when its not (blind tested).

I will reserve judgment on whether a simple/complex mains cable works or not until such time I can test it for myself

Yes the guy is trying to sell mains cable but he is also offering a full refund if you get no benefit from it use. No one is really loosing are they? I wish Hifi manufactures adopted a similar policy as standard.
[/quote] This says it all aswell

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="bobbys"]the guy is trying to sell mains cable but he is also offering a full refund if you get no benefit from it use. No one is really loosing are they?[/quote]

A loser that thinks they are a winner is still a loser.

 

[Anton90125]

[quote user="Keith McAlpine"]A loser that thinks they are a winner is still a loser.[/quote]

No - Not really simply because there is no absolute scale to being a loser or being a winner

Its all relative and highly subjective

If some one is happy with £100 music centre while someone else is unhappy with a highly recommended £10,000 hifi system (which nearly everyone would love to have) - who is the loser and who is the winner?

Besides how can someone be a loser if they feel they have improved their system or that they got there money back?

 

[Thaiman]

Why my interconnects worth £600 yet my power cables is still the cheapy old one! If I can hear a different that worthwhile buying no doubt I will. Try before buy or buy with money back is the way to go...and Darren (Clearer) seem like a nice guy eventhough I am not sure that try to sell his own products in here is the right thing to do.

 

[clearer_audio]

Hello Everyone, Firstly I would like to make one thing clear - I am not trying to sell our cables in the What Hi-Fi? forums. As a manufacturer I hope that I might be able to pop into these forums once in a while and contribute in some positive way. Marshal478 - if any of your components are captive lead (i.e., hard-wired) then re-wiring may indeed invalidate the equipments warranty so it would be best to check with the manufacturer first; and if you wanted to proceed with this get the work done by a qualified electrician. It is interesting that you noticed no difference at all with the QED Qonduit as it should at least have given a subtle improvement in performance; but if you wanted to try the Copper-line Power Cable to compare then you know about refund policy we offer. If you live in a brand-new house then the quality of the wiring - over say a house with wiring 20-30 years old - will have a positive impact upon your system's performance overall but the QED Qonduit should have still given an improvement in performance. Hope this helps. Kind regards, Darren

 

[FoxJA]

I've never tried any form of mains block or cable that didn't come with the appliance, that doesn't mean I don't believe they work, it just means I've spent my money on other more obvious upgrades.

I would like to know though, if these cables do work, then why when spending hundreds or even thousands of pounds on a single appliance, why does the manufacturer not use the best quality mains cable in it to begin with?

Surely they know the product will be reviewed and tested and they would want the best possible performance.

 

[Thaiman]

[quote user="clearer_audio"]Hello Everyone, Firstly I would like to make one thing clear - I am not trying
to sell our cables in the What Hi-Fi? forums. [/quote]

Nice to hear, your inputs is certainly can be useful here if you are not bias!

[quote user="clearer_audio"]but if you wanted to try the Copper-line Power Cable to compare then you know
about refund policy we offer.[/quote]

Ah! well...well mr. Dee

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks all for your input, the last thing Iwanted to do is cause a row! As for Darren, I hardly think he is 'trying to sell his own products - just offering advice like everyone else. If anything he is providing an opportunity to try the products and return them - followed by a slating on here if they dont work, pretty brave I'd say! Anyway thanks again.

 

[LOST]

I have never understood how these cables can make a difference and if they do i would probably purchase them , but i have always wondered whats the point in improving your mains cables etc if the sockets/house wiring your plugging into is poor ? in other words if your house wiring and plug sockets are 10-20 years old how can changing a lead going from the socket to your appliance make a difference ?? sorry to sound thick but i have never understood this and im sure someone will clear this up for me !!!

 

[hifikrazy]

[quote user="Keith McAlpine"][quote user="bobbys"]the guy is trying to sell mains cable but he is also offering a full refund if you get no benefit from it use. No one is really loosing are they?[/quote]

A loser that thinks they are a winner is still a loser.[/quote]

That cynicism is strangely familiar.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="LOST"]
I have never understood how these cables can make a difference and if they do i would probably purchase them , but i have always wondered whats the point in improving your mains cables etc if the sockets/house wiring your plugging into is poor ? in other words if your house wiring and plug sockets are 10-20 years old how can changing a lead going from the socket to your appliance make a difference ?? sorry to sound thick but i have never understood this and im sure someone will clear this up for me !!!
[/quote]

It's the age old pastime of parting fools from their money. At least nobody dies from buying useless accessories, something which can't be said of homeopathic medicine. There are people taking water pills that think they are immune from malaria.

 

[Anton90125]

The question is whether the mains lead in question is more then a simple bit of mains cable. That is to say that some filtration of noise takes place.

Is there any noise on the mains? IMO is yes definitely. My experience with the variac-filter has shown that to be true.

I have noticed that a few posters argue against this noise being present by virtue of fact we don't continuously hear click/pops and bangs every minute. But from my understanding of the insidious way mains noise works (causes a sonic deterioration ) is by subtly changing the operating parameters of the individual electrical components such that the overall characteristic (equipment performance) is different to what the designer originally intended.

This is especially true of digital circuits

I personally don't mind if people have a different opinion as to whether main noise/ the effect of mains noise is a real phenomenon. I do however mind when people who have different opinions are referred to as fools.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Anton90125"]

II personally don't mind if people have a different opinion as to whether main noise/ the effect of mains noise is a real phenomenon. I do however mind when people who have different opinions are referred to as fools.

[/quote]

Hear hear

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="jimwall"]
[quote user="Anton90125"]

II personally don't mind if people have a different opinion as to whether main noise/ the effect of mains noise is a real phenomenon. I do however mind when people who have different opinions are referred to as fools.

[/quote]

Hear hear

[/quote]

I was thinking more of the type of person than will pay vast sums of money for something that is ineffectual. I didn't mean to offend anyone. Sorry.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Nigel Proctor"]

It's the age old pastime of parting fools from their money. At least nobody dies from buying useless accessories, something which can't be said of homeopathic medicine. There are people taking water pills that think they are immune from malaria.[/quote]

Bit OT

Problem with homeopathy is that even though many of us understand that we're drinking water, and that we'll be very very very lucky to get even one molecule of the "active" ingredient, the placebo effect is real and works and "miracle" cures do happen because of it. Catch is - you have to believe or it doesn't work. Does this mean homeopathy doesn't work, or does it mean that it does work but by different means to the way it's sold? I don't know (and I don't really care) - it probably won't work for me, because I understand that the level of dilution we're talking about is so great even I can't comprehend it (and I'm better at the numbers thing than most) - but it does work for some people and maybe that's a good thing.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="jimwall"]it does work for some people [/quote]

How about my malaria example? Are you OK with that?

 

[Anonymous]

No, I'm not suggesting you're wrong about that at all. I think that the placebo effect is something that medical science should be (and is as it happens so no soap box needed) taking seriously as a useful tool to help get the body to heal itself - which must be better than filling the body up with alien chemicals or whatever. At the end of the day however, the body only has a finite capability for self healing and some things are beyond it - if I (god forbid) get shot and somebody tries to heal me with the placebo effect I'll be mightily upset - briefly.

 

[Thaiman]

My head chef always hold the bottom part of his ear when he burn his fingers! I never try (or burn my fingers) but he swear that stop the pain....