Lossless Surround is great for detail, but not so great for my neighbours. Help required!

[strapped for cash]

My upgrade to HD audio saga continues...

As mentioned, love the extra detail and clarity from lossless audio, but as I live in a flat, with neighbours below and to the side, I'm starting to wonder whether it was worth the upgrade to DD/DTS HD... The leap from quiet, dialogue driven, scenes to oppressive full on action has had me leaping for the remote on several occasions in the interests of courteousy to others.

What I'm getting at is, unless you live in a detached house, or a property with party walls and some serious sound-proofing, are the latest audio processing options entirely practical for many consumers? Sure, you can curb the effects by engaging the receiver's dynamic compression function, but doesn't this defeat the object of upgrading to lossless audio all together?

Because I've had some problems with my recently purchased Denon 1910, I'm going back in to Superfi tomorrow to try to find an alternative. But as the Yamaha 1065 and new Onkyo 608 seemed even more forceful than the 1910, I'm starting to feel I'm running out of options.

Is the sensible option to go for a Sony 760 Blu Ray player connected to my old Onkyo 505 via multichannel outs?

Sorry, the forum is becoming an outlet for my frustrations and impossible questions!

Is there a receiver out there that will give me the detail and clarity of lossless audio but with less aggression?

 

[Anonymous]

i know exactly what you mean strapped , ive been the same this past week , watching a movie , enjoying the crisp , clear dialogue , only to be blown out of my seat once the action hots up , and wondering if the neighbours heard it , luckily for me , im an end terraced house , and there is my hallway and next doors between both our lounges ..

on three occasions now ive asked them next door if they can hear anything , whilst turning up the volume , and thankfully they dont hear anything until its ear splittingly loud , thats great , but i still dont feel comfortable listening at high volumes after 10pm , just in case they can hear it , and i dont even have the sub yet

 

[Nick_Shepherd]

Hi strapped, sorry to hear your struggling a bit.

I should be getting the Yamaha this weekend so will let you know how that goes. I cany comment on and avr solution, but, what I do with my neighbours is i only watch one / two things at a loud volume, and make sure its over by 10.30pm or so at weekends. That way, they know it wont bang on all night, and that it wont be every night. After all, we all have to live and enjoy are own homes. No point having the gear and not using it.....

 

[Anonymous]

what yamaha did you settle on nick ? did you get to audition ?

 

[strapped for cash]

I'm not using a sub either. It's not the low frequency that's the problem. I was just watching Fight Club on Blu Ray and the scene with the mid-air plane collision was so loud that my neighbour below started thumping the ceiling. A few seconds earlier the dialogue sounded no louder than my normal television audio. God, am I getting old? Have I simply reached that stage in life where I'm becoming alarmed by sudden loud noises! Perhaps not if my neighbour was equally shocked!

 

[strapped for cash]

Nick_Shepherd:
Hi strapped, sorry to hear your struggling a bit.

I should be getting the Yamaha this weekend so will let you know how that goes. I cany comment on and avr solution, but, what I do with my neighbours is i only watch one / two things at a loud volume, and make sure its over by 10.30pm or so at weekends. That way, they know it wont bang on all night, and that it wont be every night. After all, we all have to live and enjoy are own homes. No point having the gear and not using it.....

Hi Nick

Yes, do post to update us. Presume it was the 1065 you went for in the end? Was this with an audition or did you just take the plunge?

 

[b33k34]

This isn't a problem with lossless per se but with 5.1 sound in general. The compression on the surround channels in Dolby Digital didn't make them quieter, just lower quality - the dynamic range on DD vs D HD *should* be the same.

TV broadcasts have the dynamic range 'squashed' so that theres less difference between the quiet and loud segments. At the cinema the full dynamic range isn't a problem but at home it can be a bit much. You'll probably find your AV amp has some sort of 'late night' setting which limits the dynamic range - try finding this and see if it works better for you. IIRC my Sony amp gives no real info or adjustment on this mode whereas my old NAD AV amp had a simple way of adjusting the degree of compression.

 

[Pindi]

You need to make use of the 'Night' mode, the dialogue and explosions will be on a similar level with it on. So, you can lower the volume.

 

[Anonymous]

Have you tried turning the centre channel up by around 2 to 3 decibles. I run at 2 decible more than the fronts and its perfect.

One other thing; if you have your surround speakers set to small a surge of volume can be sent to the fronts if your cross over is set to low or if you have no sub at all

Vance

 

[strapped for cash]

Cheers guys. I'm taking the Denon back anyway, as I felt, after lots of careful listening, that it actually sounded too warm partnered with my B&Ws. I also had problems with HDMI pass through...

Hoping the Yamaha 1065 doesn't deliver similar results!

 

[strapped for cash]

What a difference a day makes!

I'm now owner of a Yamaha 1065 and, despite my initial feelings about the greater detail offered by the Denon when first auditioned, the 1065 works brilliantly with the rest of my components. It just sounds so refined by comparison. No HDMI pass through issues and a wonderfully beautiful tone when hooked up to my B&Ws. Just goes to show, even an in store audition can't always steer you correctly, especially when you have older speakers that are no longer stocked by retailers... It even seems more neighbour friendly because of the level of control the Yamaha exhibits. No leaping for the remote!

I've gone from frustrated and underwhelmed to blown away and very happy in the space of 24 hours!

Nick, hope you have similarly positive results.

 

[Nick_Shepherd]

Hi strapped and max, sorry for the slow reply though I had seen your posts.

I pick up my 1065 tomorrow, though a decent test wont happen until Monday. Im pleased you seem sorted now with the 1065 strapped. I will post my thoughts sometime on Monday.

It does look though, that are intitail research, which pointed to the Yamaha 1065 being the one to buy, was correct!

 

[ear]

strapped for cash what about dialogue with the yamaha? find it rough or as smooth as the denon?

 

[strapped for cash]

Nick -- I'm sure you'll get on well with it. It sounds more refined than the Denon (at least with my B&Ws) which I thought a bit aggressive after several days of listening. Hope it suits your other components similarly well!

I'll be intrigued to see what you think after you've had a chance to get to grips with it.

Ear -- I understand what the team are saying there, though the word "smidgen" is, I think, the one to pay attention to. It's hardly like dialogue through the 1065 is unintelligible, though it's just a fraction clearer through the Denon. In every other way I think the Yamaha trumps the Denon. It sounds more immersive and surround steering is more convincing; and the tone of the 1065 suits my speakers far better. I think that's the biggest pitfall when buying equipment, you never know how it will really integrate with your other kit until you get it home...

 

[Anonymous]

strapped for cash:
What a difference a day makes!

I'm now owner of a Yamaha 1065 and, despite my initial feelings about the greater detail offered by the Denon when first auditioned, the 1065 works brilliantly with the rest of my components. It just sounds so refined by comparison. No HDMI pass through issues and a wonderfully beautiful tone when hooked up to my B&Ws. Just goes to show, even an in store audition can't always steer you correctly, especially when you have older speakers that are no longer stocked by retailers... It even seems more neighbour friendly because of the level of control the Yamaha exhibits. No leaping for the remote!

I've gone from frustrated and underwhelmed to blown away and very happy in the space of 24 hours!

Nick, hope you have similarly positive results.

nice one strapped

, its great that you are very happy with the yam , rather than thinking the denon would have been better if working correctly .. finding a neighbour friendly volume level is tricky ok ,the dynamic range can help here. have you played with the equalizer settings ? they really change the sound characteristics ..

now that youve got this , and nick is getting his today , we can hopefully pass on any good tips to each other , i wouldnt call my yam intuitive , but im getting there ..

 

[strapped for cash]

Does the 765 have a Pure Audio function? To be honest, I've done little else other than run the YPAO auto set up and engage the Pure Audio mode. I tried listening with a few other DSP modes engaged and had a play around with the manual settings. Then I set everything back to default and switched to Pure Audio again. It simply offers the best results, hands down. The greater control the Yamaha exhibits over the Denon is what makes it so neighbour friendly. You don't have to crank the volume up to get truly enjoyable results, even with Dynamic Range set to Max (which is the default setting anyway). That's probably not much help to you Max, though I was wondering whether Pure Audio -- which obviously disengages any unneccessary processing like heightened Low Frequency Effects -- might work better for you in terms of being neighbour friendly?

Should say, good call by the way. I wasn't originally considering the 1065 till you suggested it in a previous thread.

 

[Anonymous]

hi strapped , yes the 765 has pure direct , i leave it in that mode for the most part , very good imo..

im not too bothered about the neighbours , they have only heard it when its been very very loud , while i was seeing what my speakers could do , i still think they might hear it , when its late , but im sure they dont , i dont have a sub yet though

hey , happy to have helped in some way , this forum has been very handy for me too , ive got some great advice here recently

 

[Nick_Shepherd]

Finally wired in the Yamaha 1065 and reminded myself its really difficult to do when you dont leave enough length in the cable in the first place!

Not had a chance do test much yet as I realise I have a lot to learn, maybe you can help!

This is what I have done:

HDMI from BD to TV and opitical from BD to amp and the same from SKY HD.

Does DTS HD Master Audio / Dolby True HD run through and optical cable? The amp displayed just a two speaker symbols, though I did get 5.1, but was it HD?

I ran the auto set up but dont get the info on the screen so cant be sure it has set up properly (manual says it will tell you if any problems)

Should I do this:

HDMI from BD to amp, HDMI from SKY HD and Optical to amp, then HDMI from amp to TV?

Will I then need to always have the amp switched on to view TV??

Will this effect the excellent picture I currently get from my TV??

Thanks for your help!

 

[Anonymous]

yes i think the optical out is only required from sky box to amp ..

you can set the amp to "pass through" , so there is no scaling performed by the amp , actually im not sure that amp does hdmi to hdmi scaling anyway , you will need the amp on to watch tv i think , but thats surely not an issue ?

 

[Nick_Shepherd]

Hi max, quick reply, thanks!

you may be right re upscalling.

I was hoping to only have the amp on when I need surround sound, like for movies, 24, lost etc, but when Eastenders is on, or its late at night, the TV speakers are fine.

If I get HD audio through an optical lead, I can feed video from each source direct to TV, if not, it has to go through the amp.......

I'll try it when a pick up a 3rd HDMI lead..........mean time, if anyone knows.......

 

[ear]

what B&W speakers do you have?

 

[Anonymous]

assuming the sky hd box has only one hdmi out , then unless you switch it direct to the tv , as i currently have so i can watch the snooker and listen to music , you will have to go through the amp , unless of course you use a scart , but no hd then ..

perhaps a hdmi splitter ? one to amp and one to tv ?

 

[Anonymous]

Don't think optical has the required bandwidth for HD audio so i think it's HDMI for HD sound. Could be wrong though.

 

[Nick_Shepherd]

i'll check the sky box and the splitter idea. thanks for that. I'll start a fresh post as i have a sub issue too (its all moved on snce my old amp!) and when I have had a proper test, i'll report back on this thread so you and strapped know how i get on with thw Yamaha!

 

[Anonymous]

Nick_Shepherd:i'll check the sky box and the splitter idea. thanks for that. I'll start a fresh post as i have a sub issue too (its all moved on snce my old amp!) and when I have had a proper test, i'll report back on this thread so you and strapped know how i get on with thw Yamaha!