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Leema Acoustics - any love?

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Andrewjvt

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Diamond Joe said:
insider9 said:
It is a loan. Like I said earlier I'm a curious individual.

At this point I should credit Rick at Musicraft who offered to do it  Many thanks Rick.
Nice. Shame Rick's a bit too far from me, I'd like a loan for a short while, mind you I fear I'd fall in love with it and raid my piggy back!! *biggrin*
Ask him to drive over to you for a home demo.
 

insider9

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Sep 20, 2016
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drummerman said:
insider9 said:
Haha, I'm not going anywhere with this. The loan is only so I can listen to the amp. I don't plan on buying it or anything else right now. I was honest with Rick so there's no misunderstanding. He was happy to do it. And I'm very grateful.

The only actives speakers I'd consider is the ones I've got but converted to active. And that would be costly.
He's a good chap.

I can't somehow see the point though if you have no intention to buy it. - It's like a tease and perhaps will make going back to to your amp difficult.
He is and I understand why you see it as a tease. It started a while back in a conversation inspired by Ellisdj. I half-jokingly mentioned to Rick that should he have anything for a review, I'd be happy to spend my time listening and write what I think about it. In a recent conversation he offered me a Leema loan.

So when PP says it didn't take long :) I knew about picking up Leema when I started this thread. Just wanted to see what you guys thought about it. At the end of my streamer thread I already mentioned another project. But no one asked what it was.

What's also worth remembering that I used to go through components like crazy. Here my last count 24 amps, 20 pairs of speakers, 21 sources. All since July 2016. Generally no major changes in the last 4 months. I did slow down massively because I'm more selective to what I want to listen and what I like. And most importantly as it became cost prohibitive.
 

drummerman

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Jan 18, 2008
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insider9 said:
drummerman said:
insider9 said:
Haha, I'm not going anywhere with this. The loan is only so I can listen to the amp. I don't plan on buying it or anything else right now. I was honest with Rick so there's no misunderstanding. He was happy to do it. And I'm very grateful.

The only actives speakers I'd consider is the ones I've got but converted to active. And that would be costly.
He's a good chap.

I can't somehow see the point though if you have no intention to buy it. - It's like a tease and perhaps will make going back to to your amp difficult.
He is and I understand why you see it as a tease. It started a while back in a conversation inspired by Ellisdj. I half-jokingly mentioned to Rick that should he have anything for a review, I'd be happy to spend my time listening and write what I think about it. In a recent conversation he offered me a Leema loan.

So when PP says it didn't take long :) I knew about picking up Leema when I started this thread. Just wanted to see what you guys thought about it. At the end of my streamer thread I already mentioned another project. But no one asked what it was.

What's also worth remembering that I used to go through components like crazy. Here my last count 24 amps, 20 pairs of speakers, 21 sources. All since July 2016. Generally no major changes in the last 4 months. I did slow down massively because I'm more selective to what I want to listen and what I like. And most importantly as it became cost prohibitive.
Understand
 

MUSICRAFT

Well-known member
Diamond Joe said:
insider9 said:
It is a loan. Like I said earlier I'm a curious individual.

At this point I should credit Rick at Musicraft who offered to do it Many thanks Rick.
Nice. Shame Rick's a bit too far from me, I'd like a loan for a short while, mind you I fear I'd fall in love with it and raid my piggy back!! *biggrin*
Hi Diamond Joe

If you’re still interested in having a look/listen to the Tucana MK2 Anniversary Edition then please contact me accordingly and i’ll try and facilitate this *smile*

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft
 

insider9

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Sep 20, 2016
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plastic penguin said:
And...

Two days in and what are your thoughts on the Leema?
Let me try and give you some initial impressions. And these will be in direct comparison to Rost and with Rost as a source so we've changed one variable only. Also focusing on difference as opposed to similarities.

- Power, immense and unconditional amount of power. If you want to turn it up to 10 o'clock you need to brace yourself. It will go loud and with a kick. 9 o'clock is just about the right volume. But it is every bit as impressive at low volume.

- Extension and I'm not talking lower end it's the top as well. It feels like it adds an extra octave either side. Everything seems equally well attended to.

- There's so much more my speakers can give. This shocked me the most although it is the most obvious.

Then I swapped it over to a different DAC. Chinese AKM based DSD capable DAC-05B. It can be run with a tube buffer, straight or balanced. A mate of mine swears by it and it sounds very good in his system. But that one DAC gave me you could treat it as 3 sources to choose from.

- Leema is very demanding of the source. It changes so much sonically based on source. And is ruthlessly revealing.

The experience so far is great. I intend to try as many sources and speakers as I possibly can before I write a proper review.
 

insider9

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Sep 20, 2016
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MUSICRAFT said:
insider9 said:
It is a loan. Like I said earlier I'm a curious individual.

At this point I should credit Rick at Musicraft who offered to do it  Many thanks Rick.
Hi insider9

You’re welcome *smile*

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft
Seriously, massive thanks Rick. Much appreciated!
 
insider9 said:
There's so much more my speakers can give. This shocked me the most although it is the most obvious.
Any good quality speaker will give you more with a better amplifier. I’ve labored this point many, many times on forums, as I see too many people using amplifiers that just aren’t up to the job of driving and controlling the speakers they’re paired with. Many people are surprised when they suddenly hear just how good their speakers can actually sound.

Leema is very demanding of the source. It changes so much sonically based on source. And is ruthlessly revealing.
Again, a system that is good enough will convey more subtle differences in source components (as well as other products) that will be lost on a lesser quality amplifier. Many seem to think that the important of a good quality source died out when CD was invented, but that’s far from the truth - analogue or digital, source is still very important, and even more so with more revealing systems.
 

MUSICRAFT

Well-known member
plastic penguin said:
I would guess, from what I've read on here many, many times, that Leema are closer than most integrated amps to a good active speaker, in terms of timing, detail and imaging. Have to stress, though, it is purely a hunch.
Hi pp

Tucana MK2 Anniversary Edition’s immense power and control makes it feel/sound like it’s glued to drive units *smile*

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft
 

plastic penguin

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Apr 28, 2008
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My basic MKII (Non Anniversary version) is potent. But looking at your photos of your room it does concern me that whatever amp you're not making the most of it - or the size of the speakers.

What first struck me about the Tucana is the imaging: It's jaw-dropping. That can really only be fully realised with sufficient room from speakers.

Agree about source being found out if it isn't up to scratch. That was the same with the Pulse. Both amps with drag out and slap you around the face - metephorically speaking - if the source or the recording is less than top notch.
 

insider9

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Sep 20, 2016
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The difference in imaging between Tucana and Rost isn't that big on my setup. Rost is doing a fine job in that department hence it's not something I'd consider a major differentiator. They do present vocals and instruments in a different way though.

The only thing that I noticed in Tucana that back of the soundstage is as wide as the front. With Rost it narrows a little as the depth goes on.

I can see why you'd say this about the room. Trust me I'm not a nutter with oversized speakers. I've spent a considerable amount of time optimising the room in order to get this part right so don't think just because it's not a big room I'm missing out. Even the last changes with isolation platforms helped in this regard. Sure I'd love to to have more room but it's a seriously good sounding room and measurably so.

I've not only using acoustic room treatment but also use DSP. I welcome anyone for a listen by the way. And I'd not swap my room for any other untreated room, no way.
 

MikeToll

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Jul 7, 2010
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I bought a Tacuna mkII a number of years ago thanks to PP, your fault for waxing so lyrical about Leema :) I would love to know just how much difference there is between the standard version and the Anniversary. Worth upgrading or just a bit better? I mentioned a new amp to the other half but she was not impressed but given time......... If it is worth it that is.
 

CnoEvil

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Aug 21, 2009
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Power corrupts. Absolute Power corrupts absolutely (in a good way).....and is why I would rather have lesser speakers properly driven, than expensive speakers under-driven. Expensive speakers properly driven, is a thing to behold.....but shines a light on the Source, which is why HiFi can get so expensive.

Ellis is finding out what his Refs are capabale of....but they have such big headroom, that just when you thing you've reached the ceiling, you realize you are only on the 3rd floor of a 20 story building.
 

insider9

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Sep 20, 2016
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But consider this if price wasn't a factor. Would you still go for lesser speakers?

Mine might have been $8k in US around 18 years ago which probably translated to easily £10k+ at a time. After import, currency exchange, local taxes, etc. But I paid nowhere near that.

So do you reckon I'd be better suited with PMC DB1 Gold (which would actually cost me more), or what I currently have?

I can tell you one thing. Bass from Rost is great via these 10 inch woofers. But Tucana takes it up the level in terms of quality. And the room treatment plus DSP means no hint of boom, or anything else. Just what's on the recording. And it doesn't impact on midrange clarity like it would with small speakers.
 

CnoEvil

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Aug 21, 2009
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insider9 said:
But consider this if price wasn't a factor. Would you still go for lesser speakers?

Mine might have been $8k in US around 18 years ago which probably translated to easily £10k+ at a time. After import, currency exchange, local taxes, etc. But I paid nowhere near that.

So do you reckon I'd be better suited with PMC DB1 Gold (which would actually cost me more), or what I currently have?

I can tell you one thing. Bass from Rost is great via these 10 inch woofers. But Tucana takes it up the level in terms of quality. And the room treatment plus DSP means no hint of boom, or anything else. Just what's on the recording. And it doesn't impact on midrange clarity like it would with small speakers.
I answered your first question in my last post by saying, "Expensive speakers properly driven, is a thing to behold". I suppose I was making the same point as David, in that you should go with speakers that your amp can handle...unless you have an upgrade plan and are looking to the future.

I absolutely don't think you'd be better with DB1s, having got used to the scale and impact of what you have...unless you value imaging and speed, over gut wrenching authority. Trouble is, big speakers, with big woofers need an amp that shows them whose boss.
 

insider9

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Sep 20, 2016
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I actually think Rost is doing a fine job. And most importantly gives me the traits I really value. Kind of difficult comparison to Tucana which is over twice the RRP. Well... difficult for someone with a Rost ;) However it is excellent in its own right.
 

MikeToll

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Jul 7, 2010
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Hi insider9, I am based in deepest Suffolk. There is a dealer near Eye who sells Leema but of course different room and different speakers. If my other half eventually weakens then I would like an honest opinion before I make a trip to bother a dealer and risk the wrath of swmbo. (Love her really, but she just does not understand). Perhaps Rick could give me his honest opinion though I think it will be sometime before the time is right for a potential trip!
 

plastic penguin

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Apr 28, 2008
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I'm not saying insider is a nutter nor do I think his speakers aren't capable. The point I'm making is those speakers look too big for a room of that size.

One can make any adaptions, acoustic panels... but a really good amp will find that out. At the end of the day, a good system needs ROOM to breath.

My room doesn't look that much bigger but I have smaller speakers, and I think insider is perhaps looking for something his natural environment won't allow.
 

insider9

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Sep 20, 2016
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That's a valid point PP. And I don't disagree they do look too big. I can definitely see how it looks and trust me should I have any doubts about limitations I'd be setting up in the living room. It has little use, in fairness. I honestly don't have big concerns as the sound quality on offer is superb. I'd love a bit more room, wouldn't everyone?

Having tried many other speakers in this room I can safely say room sounds great. And it shows of equipment for what it is not adding or taking anything away. Which was the whole point on spending months getting it here. I'm not even joking thousands of measurements involved.

Yes, it looks cluttered. Take away panels and you'd see speaker have 70cm to back wall. The right speakers has 50cm to side, left a few meters. Rack although between the speaker is behind them not interacting in any way and purposely built small and from timber.

Speakers are 6ft apart (tweeter to tweeter) in equilateral triangle with listening position. That's where bass performance is best but you can sit further away at 7ft if you wish. Nothing in this room is a coincidence. But I work to improve it all the time, recently re-measured acoustically, made changes to treatment, measured again and tweaked DSP. All because isolation platforms went in. And if it wasn't for steamer build diffusion was next on the list.

It sounds brilliant. Leema performs really well and I was only giving my very short impressions of the differences to Hegel Rost.

I understand every system needs room to breather but trust me you're seriously underestimating effect of acoustic room treatment. Without it I'd not even attempt a speakers of that size in this room. Measurably the room interaction is kept to minimum with clean impulse response and low reverberation throughout frequency range. And then on top of that I'm using FIR based DSP.

Once again I'm open to demo the setup to anyone willing to travel. Email address is below.
 

CnoEvil

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Aug 21, 2009
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I would have huge concerns over that room, only I know how fastidious you are when it comes to measurements and speaker setup.
 

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