Kef ref 1 vs kef 201/2 vs kef r300 New equipment help!

[renokki]

I am looking for new equipment.
Ive got the hegel h80 with kef r300 beautiful system for the money, i want to upgrade to hegel h160.

Also i want new speakers.

questions;
Kef r300 vs kef 201/2 ?
kef 201/2 vs kef reference 1 ?
Kef reference 1 vs kef 205/2 ?

Can anybody help me. I will demo this in te future, but want to know if someone have heard this ones?

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi renokki

I'll recommend upgrading to the H160 first. Use the H160/R300 combination for a while and then look at changing the speakers.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[SteveR750]

If you like the KEF sound, you might want to try the new curved ATC SCM40 which work very well with the Hegel amp.

 

[Frank Harvey]

I don't know the Hegel, so I can't comment on what sort of level of speaker it can handle. Generally, a well designed speaker will respond well to better amplification, so I'd say explore this route first.

The one thing I would say is that you should audition amplification with the speakers you intend to get, rather than with the R300s. It's no good getting a better amp based on the R300s, only to change the speaker and find it isn't quite up to the job.

Each of the Reference models you list will be a good step up from the R300s, and while all Reference models old and new follow the same design brief, they do sound a little different, thanks to the Concept Blade. The 201/2s are great little speakers, not the deepest bass but certainly doesn't lack presence (think of it as a grown up, far more capable LS50). The 205/2s are my favourite from the old range. These are stunning speakers when driven properly, and will handle literally everything you have to throw at them. I find the Reference 1s, whilst not maybe having the output of the 2052s, are more listenable with rougher sounding material. Don't think that they are glossing over anything though, as they certainly are not - they have inherited this trait from the Blades, which just sound good even with compressed/roughly mixed/recorded material. Each of these speakers will have different requirements from the partnering amplification, but the common thing is that the more you give the Reference models, the more you'll get from them. What source equipment will you be using?

Whichever Reference models you explore, I'd be looking at Devialet, Chord Electronics, Classe, and Cyrus. We've found these work well with all manner of KEF models. All of these have their own sound signature (or not, as the case may be), and despite what people May tell you about a,pluggers sounding the same, I can assure you these all sound quite different. The Classe and Devialet are more flexible in their set up, whereas the Chord and Cyrus are a little more old school in that respect, keeping things simple. Do you have any specific requirements of the electronics (DAC/digital inputs etc), or do you just want a straight analogue pre/power?

 

[CnoEvil]

I agree with both Rick and David....get the amp and live with it for a while in order to see what it brings to the system.

If you still want to upgrade your speakers, here are my thoughts (I own 205/2s and LS50s, have heard the Blades and am familiar with the R Series).

If you want to go Reference, your system really has to be up to the mark (amp and source).

The older Reference have a slightly less palatable sound, so need amps that can not only control them, but imo, steer away from the analytical (ie. McIntosh, Classe, Plinius)....I have not heard the Hegel, so can't comment on the match with the older Reference, but suspect it might not be fully to my taste, compared to Class A.

The New Reference, if like the Blade, can pull off the neat trick of being incredibly detailed, yet remarkably natural and musical. This makes it easier to match with a bigger variety of amps (provided they can control them).

Your ears will quickly tell you which way to go, as the two Reference lines really do sound fairly different. If I had to guess, I would suspect the Ref 1s will sound better with the Hegel (and are nearer to the R Series in tonal quality).

 

[renokki]

cno evil + david very great comments thank you very much.

So first auditioned the speakers yesterday. Must say it was a nice day.

First of all ive to say that my system isn't so bad for the money compared to the other speakers.
So first the amp hegel 160 it was just a little big more sounding compared to hegel h80. Soundstage was little bit bigger. Also more agressive. Bigger dynamics. But the overall score hegel h80 compared to h160 was. H80 - 85 procent compared to H160 95 procent. it was on kef r300

Then listened to ls50 - little bit more cleaner mids and highs but missed the dynamics of r300.
Then listened to 201/2 - it sounded better then ls50 but again missed the dynamics of the r300 in te lower region.
Then listened to kef reference 1. It was a more grown up sound from r300 ive to say again 85 procent to 95 procent of the sound.
Then i listened to dynaudio c1 mk2. I have to say the overall sound compared to kef reference 1.
Then i listened to 205/2 - ok this was clearly the winner 100 procent of music. Never heard great things like this i must say beautiful.

So i thought to myself again. 10000 euros for a new system against 3000 euros for my system. 85 procent of sounds against 100 procent
Ive to say i'm happy with my system for the money!!! Can i upgrade my own system without buying new speakers and amplifier. Maybe a great dac?

Very much thnx for the comments. happy to see how much you like audio.

Great thnx!!!

 

[CnoEvil]

I certainly know how good the 205/2s can sound, but unless you are going to throw £6k+ at the amp (and maybe £2k for a source), I personally would rather have the R700s, at a third of the cost.

IME. An improvement in amplification gives an immediate free upgrade of one's existing speakers, which is why one should live with the new amp for a while before jumping into new speakers.

The more expensive the speakers, the more expensive the amp (and source) has to be to fully hear the benefit ie. everything in balance.....and the law of deminishing returns certainly applies - you just have to find the point at which you get the right performance per £, for your own needs.

FWIW. I think your system is nicely balanced as it stands, and as you have found out, there is a substantial premium to pay for a significant improvement.

 

[renokki]

Ive placed them on another place First had them placed in the middle of a rectangler room.
18 by 13 feet I had place them on the long side 18 feet side. Now ive placed them on the smaller 13 feet side. 3 and 2 feet from the walls. And I have to say, the sound is much more naturally en peacefuller. Didn't know that placing them better making such a difference. Sounds feels very nice and more subtle now.

 

[SteveR750]

I know that Hegel used spome Magico Q7 speakers when they were developing the H160. It is capable of driving speakers way more expensive than it is (but you might expect them to say that). There's also a report somewhere, can't find the link right now, where there was a group of testers in a room with the H160 and some random speakers, again one pair much more expensive than the amp itself, and apparently sounded better than the H300 amp (which is an older design). Whilst i don't subscribe to the every amp sounds the same school, it's obvious that with sufficient power, low inter-harmonic distortion, and high DF and most speakers should work well.